[Newfie]

FWIW

I agree it's too late.

I also believe it's not within humanities collective abilities to either control our population or make necessary adjustments.

Whether it works or not we are working on our preps. Focusing on flexibility for the downward road will be makes by chaos. But not with a hair shirt. I agree it it very important to find joy where you can.

[Pops]

Happy B-Day Pete, our very own Don Rickles of Doom.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sometime in '05 pstarr', ' ')What I'm really trying to say is that, all your smug assertions to the contrary, no vesper, vetrox, or prius is going to make a hell of a difference. You've still got to recharge with oil, commute on tar roads, eat oil food, play oil x-box games, wear oil clothing, and take oil medicine.
...

That kind of post-modern, dark-square-sunglass, pegged pants, italian image thing might be off. Think donkey.

[noobtube]

It's actually kind of infuriating when people say it's too late.

People have been saying that since the 1970s, so they can live irresponsible, trash-spreading, self-indulgent, war-mongering, selfish, arrogant lives.

Many cultures around the world have a connection to their lands and act responsibly.

Not Americans.

With Americans, the motto is, not my fault, as they slide their fat, wide asses, into their SUVs, to buy some gas, to go to the Sprawl-Mart, to buy some useless, plastic-wrapped junk, that they will end up in the trash after 1 week. All the while, as they burn their gas, that was stolen from Mexico or Canada, playing their new electronic toy made with near slave labor in East Asia, wearing their cheap clothes made with real slave labor from Southeast Asia, and smack their mouth on imitation food from the fast food drive-thru, they think to themselves how it's no one's fault, and everyone would have done the same anyway, so, may as well keep behaving like a Grade-A asshole, because everyone acts like Americans do.

I really do despise Americans.

[Herr Meier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('noobtube', '
')Many cultures around the world have a connection to their lands and act responsibly.

[Northwest Resident]

Heir Meir -- I disagree with your statement that there is nothing we can do to prepare. But I'm an optimist. Your statement would tend to be defeatist -- and reminds me of Lord Denethor's admonishment to choose whatever way of dying seems best for you (Lord of the Rings).

At a minimum:

1) Get out of or away from the big cities -- or at least have a quick get-out-of-the-city plan and a known destination
2) 3 month food supply is inadequate -- one year's worth is far better
3) Guns/ammo and mental conditioning and practice using them to protect your food/survival supply from those who took your advice and failed to prepare
4) Know-how and ability to grow your own food, and lots of it -- you need seed, practical experience, good soil, protected or not-likely-to-be-noticed place to grow your food
5) Know-how and supplies and ability to long-term preserve the food you grow
6) Good health -- excellent physical fitness

And more.

It wasn't me who predicted a world of "peace and beauty" after TSHTF. Who made that prediction? I predict a dangerous and barren world, full of uncertainty, unforgiving, one where trust must be judiciously placed. Hard core survival regimen on a day-to-day basis, always on the alert -- that's what I predict. Maybe after a period of time there will be some local community initiatives for those who survived the first year or two, maybe not. But if you don't want to survive or don't really care if you do or don't, then the attitude of "there is nothing you can do to prepare -- all hope is lost" will get you there faster than a can-do attitude, that's for sure.

[JuanP]

My wife and I have lived our lives in a simple way. We are focused on needs and simple pleasures. Our main hobbies are packrafting, fishing, woodcrafting, and hammock camping. My wife is also a black belt in three different fighting styles, Thai boxing, Taekwondo, and kickboxing, and a Bikram Yoga teacher. Our hobbies are essentially free other than buying hooks and sinkers now and then.
We have food, water, and emergency supplies, but no weapons and no land at this time. We also work on useful skills. We try to enjoy life now as much as possible, knowing this won't last, and we prepare for the worst.
Living on a condo in Miami Beach, we know this place is hanging by a thread, and at some point something will have to give. With 10 million people, nuclear reactors similar to the Fukushima ones on the shore, desalinators, and hurricanes this will not be a good place during the fall. We intend to leave before the crowds, so I try to stay well informed.

[WildRose]

Ah, pstarr, you have made me laugh and think with your posts more times than I could count. You're a wise guy, in more ways than one! But please keep up the good work.

[Herr Meier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Northwest Resident', '
')1) Get out of or away from the big cities -- or at least have a quick get-out-of-the-city plan and a known destination

[Northwest Resident]

Herr Meier:

We're talking about disaster here as in TSHTF. If the global economy crashes, it would be far better to be away from a big city. If you don't understand why, then let's just move on rather than trying to hash it out.

Assuming a global economic crash -- end of BAU -- occurs, how are the ISIS gangs going to get out into the countryside? Ride horses? Walk? Steal whatever few gallons of gasoline they can find so they can roam the countryside terrorizing people and commandeering their food/supplies? What makes you think those desperate, starving ISIS gangs won't be met head-on by even better armed country boys?

I am fully prepared to grow my own food and be self-sufficient. I grow wheat, potatoes, beans, onions, garlic, lots and lots of corn, kale, assorted spices, tomatoes, carrots. I perpetuate my own seed. I know how to preserve it for long term storage. I work like a dog on it. I have my own worm fertilizer factories going. In a few months I'll have my own bee hive. I have mature laying hens that produce 4 - 6 eggs per day currently. Out here were I live, there are numerous fruit and nut orchards --huge ones -- and in a collapse scenario I'll be paying visits to those orchards when the time is right, all sources of very nutritional and sustaining food. There are acres and acres of naturally growing blackberries and blue berries. Oh, also, around where I live is major vineyard land -- there are many hundreds and probably thousands of acres of grapes that grow all on their own without irrigation. Yes, I do fully plan to provide food for myself and my close ones. And power tools? No, I do it all the old-fashioned way.

Guns/ammo is "Doomer/bunker nonsense"??? Only to you. I'll match my "ISIS type gang" against any other random ISIS type gang that comes our way, and they better be good. Hell yes I and my friends/neighbors/associates will be able to defend ourselves against them. Not that any kind of armed group like that will ever make it out my way, but in a collapse scenario we'll be watching and waiting for them just in case.

"If you don't have access to tools, repair parts, seeds, canning equipment, saws, root cellers etc etc, you won't make it very long (2 or 3 years maybe). If the distruption in society is so bad, that you will have to grow your own food on a subsistence level, chances are very high that you won't get any supplies at all."

Already got that completely handled, thanks for mentioning it. What? You don't? Could it be that "ah screw it we're all gonners anyway so why even try" mentality that you're displaying?

People with your attitude aren't likely to make it. I can see why you have your pessimistic about your own chance of survival, given the way you think. But rest assured that a lot of people are determined to still be standing once the smoke of collapse clears away, and because they *think* they can survive it, they're making all the preparations needed to do so. Seeing people like you who try to say that any preparation is just a waste of time just makes me think that you're one of those who'll be worm food sooner rather than later. Come on, man, where's your fighting spirit?!

[Herr Meier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Northwest Resident', ' ')it would be far better to be away from a big city.

[Loki]

Nice to see the purveyors of INSTA-DOOM!!!! and TOTAL COLLAPSE!!!! are still peddling their silliness after 10 years of PO.com. Keeps me warm at night knowing some things never change

[Pops]

Not sure what is supposed to happen when you right-click the chart but if you click this:

http://www.prienga.com/blog/

it takes you to Princeton Energy - AKA: Steven Kopits

[Newfie]

We MAY get total global collapse, IMHO this ebola thing has that capacity.

But baring that we could more likely have a series of local collapses. In fact I suspect you could consider the whole "Arab Spring" thing a bunch on localized collapses. Maybe even the Ukrainian situation, I dunno.

California,may well be heading in that direction ( over another year or two) due to the drought. I know there is enough for every one to drink. But there isn't enough water to keep the agricultural based economy going which is likely enough to break CA's back sending millions eastward looking for work.

You can prep for these localized collapses.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', 'N')ice to see the purveyors of INSTA-DOOM!!!! and TOTAL COLLAPSE!!!! are still peddling their silliness after 10 years of PO.com. Keeps me warm at night knowing some things never change

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', 'W')e MAY get total global collapse, IMHO this ebola thing has that capacity.

But baring that we could more likely have a series of local collapses. In fact I suspect you could consider the whole "Arab Spring" thing a bunch on localized collapses. Maybe even the Ukrainian situation, I dunno.

California,may well be heading in that direction ( over another year or two) due to the drought. I know there is enough for every one to drink. But there isn't enough water to keep the agricultural based economy going which is likely enough to break CA's back sending millions eastward looking for work.

You can prep for these localized collapses.

[Subjectivist]

Something to keep in mind. Modern civilization is predicated on global trade with resources going one way and consumer goods going the other direction. If you knock enough of the players out of the game the network comes apart.