[Denny]

It the 10th anniversary of the great 1998 ice storm which severely affected Montreal, and especially its southeastern suburbs. The worst spot was 40 km south-east, where people were left powerless for 3 to 4 weeks. Much of the city itself was without power for up to five days. The ultimate bill was $2 billion in damages from the ice storm. Thankfully, the Canadian insurance companies came good for it, they did not use the act of God cop out, though they could have.

Hundreds of towering pylons came crashing to the ground under the weight of thick ice on the structure and the cables they support. Another thing that made things worse in Montreal was their reliance on overhead electrical cables, instead of the buried type.

Its interesting to see how weak we are as a civilization when the power goes out. Even the mail delivery was affected, many neighborhoods went days without.

See this video. CBC News

[gg3]

.
In the telephone universe, aerial cable has a lifespan of about 25 - 35 years, whereas underground cable, properly installed, has a lifespan of 125 years. Even without ice storms occurring.

Bottom line: if you're planning sustainable community, put all of your electrical and telecoms cables underground, below the frost line, in substantial conduits. And if you're not planning for sustainable community but seeking somewhere to move to, note whether you see telephone poles and overhead lines: if you do, the place will be more vulnerable to outages; if you don't, then the stuff is underground and all other factors equal, is less vulnerable.

[Madpaddy]

gg3,

Good points again as usual. Overhead cables are also much more prone to saboutage and are also clear indicators of your communities existence. I would go one further and say that a sustainable communities residences should be under ground (at least partially) as well.

[Mahmoud]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gg3', '.')
In the telephone universe, aerial cable has a lifespan of about 25 - 35 years, whereas underground cable, properly installed, has a lifespan of 125 years. Even without ice storms occurring.

Bottom line: if you're planning sustainable community, put all of your electrical and telecoms cables underground, below the frost line, in substantial conduits.

[TheTurtle]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mahmoud', '
')I guess most U.S.A. power distribution, at least cities, is underground as they can get hurricanes and tornadoes, and of course they have a lot of affluence to afford it.

[Eli]

We just had an Ice storm and about 300,000 people without power.

Man it was awful, most people were without power for about four days others up to two weeks. At first it was not that bad but it really started to wear on you after awhile.

The people with all electric homes got a very rude awakening. We had a gas stove and hot water.

I talked to cop I know who said he wished they would have declared Marshal Law because the breakins and other crime went through the roof.

[Nicholai]

If you guys could all go to the Planning for the Future section and tell all those fools who claim that the City if better than the country, please?

The vulnerability of city life is absolutely ridiculous. Montreal is a wonderful city, vive le Quebec.

[Eli]

If they already think that a City is going to be better they are too far gone.

I didn't tell the kicker, my brother lives in a very nice neighborhood, many million dollar old Mansions built in the 20s but most about 500,000 on average. The day after the power went out there were people from the hood just roaming the streets in groups of threes and four.
That would never ever normally happen.


And this was a major deal it cost millions to repair and something like 3,000 electric trucks were called out to do the repairs.

There is going to be time real soon when those trucks don't come. That will be real bad.

[Twilight]

How far away was "the hood", and what terrain did they have to cross?

[I_Like_Plants]

This is why Combat Rifle and Combat Pistol courses are very useful - remember in the L.A. riots the horde was turned around by one "bubba" on a roof with the shotgun his pappy gave him.

Now imagine the horde has had time to get hungrier, or their crack addiction has that monkey on their back chattering away .... you won't be able to just pose, you're gonna have to stop the threat. That means accurate center-of-mass shots, one bullet/deer slug per customer. This is why you need to take some training now, and keep proficient.

Good points on underground utils too!

[jboogy]

Hurricane Charlie knocked out power in port charlotte and punta gorda for 2 weeks , alot of people left for motels in surrounding areas, reimbursement from ins. was promised. I went to my parents in south gulf cove(they didn't lose power) and got their generator , I was good to go except no AC . I survived quite nicely with just fans. I did keep the kids at my parents. After a couple days I went to home depot and picked up a second generator , I could then power everything plus stove , but still no AC.If and when the grid collapses due to fuel issues or maintenence neglect it will be different. I could get gas in englewood for the generators after the hurricane.Once TSHTF there will be those that get juice through ethanol powered generators and/or solar/wind production.And there will be those that rediscover candles.I see alot of the old and sick dying in the south during the summer, I think ALOT will freeze in the north during the winter.Mass migration will happen but for many they will refuse to see the warning signs and be caught without the energy necessary for temperature control.It's possible that there will be armed resistence to heathen hordes from the north coming south en masse. Supermarkets will lose their refrigerated/frozen foods. They may go out of business entirely without electric. A return to local produce and butchers is very likely , no electric means oil is probably in short supply so reefer trucks will be obsolete.In short oil energy will go before electricity , we may have centrally supplied electricity till society completely collapses, there's a lot of coal in them thar hills. As far as your thread title , it's not possible.

[Eli]

The "hood" is a few miles away they drove in or walked over the bridge possibly but that is about a mile and a half.

Later on during the storm there was a sheriff's car with its lights on just to intimidate people.

To all my friends in the UK and elsewhere I really think now is the time to work up a plan and gather things you might need in an emergency such as this.


The way I see it going down now, is that storms and events can happen that cost tons of money to fix. In the future the money just will not be there to repair things. What would have taken a few days to fix, in the future will take months.

Cities right now are flush with cash and there has been a strong global economy what happens when every city in the nation is broke?

A housing collapse is the worst for cities because of the loss in property tax.

[jboogy]

well said , I concur

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', '
')The way I see it going down now, is that storms and events can happen that cost tons of money to fix. In the future the money just will not be there to repair things. What would have taken a few days to fix, in the future will take months.

[jboogy]

right on Denny

[Eli]

Exactly Denny. It was a little like New Orleans. But in the near future as things grind on I could see it becoming worse. Imagine whole neighborhoods were people were not paying there electric bills on time. They could be left in the dark.

Canada is going to get this every bit as hard as the US. Imagine if there was another huge ice storm up there but the Government is broke the City is broke.

Are 3,000 utility crews going to show up and be Johnny on the spot?

[jboogy]

You are , of course , spot on in your analysis Eli

[Twilight]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'T')he "hood" is a few miles away they drove in or walked over the bridge possibly but that is about a mile and a half.