Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

M. King Hubbert on

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: Did Carter talk to Hubbert?

Unread postby bart » Mon 06 Feb 2006, 16:53:03

Good question.

It may not have been necessary for Carter to have spoken to Hubbert. The ideas of energy depletion were widespread in the culture, with a high level of analysis.

For example, the April 19, 1974 issue of SCIENCE was devoted to the energy crisis.
(The articles are online at http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/ ... y-1974.dtl )

- Bart
User avatar
bart
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed 18 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif

Re: Did Carter talk to Hubbert?

Unread postby coyote » Mon 06 Feb 2006, 21:49:44

Thanks for the articles Bart. This'll be a great rebuttal to the 'somebody predicted depletion way back when...' argument. "Oh yeah? Well here's what people thought was going to save us..."
Lord, here comes the flood
We'll say goodbye to flesh and blood
If again the seas are silent in any still alive
It'll be those who gave their island to survive...
User avatar
coyote
News Editor
News Editor
 
Posts: 1979
Joined: Sun 23 Oct 2005, 03:00:00
Location: East of Eden

Re: Did Carter talk to Hubbert?

Unread postby silveredwings » Mon 06 Feb 2006, 22:34:52

"The only thing new in the world is the history you don’t know" - Harry S Truman
User avatar
silveredwings
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri 27 Jan 2006, 04:00:00

CIBC: 2004 Hubbert's Peak in low-cost Conventional Crude

Unread postby Art_Vandelai » Mon 13 Feb 2006, 10:40:48

This report from CIBC World Markets (investment division of one of Canada's largest banks) called Hubbert's Peak in hindsight for 2004, and sees conventional oil supply decreasing again next year, with the 3.6 million barrels coming onstream in 2006 offsetting losses in other fields. All the growth hereafter is from non-conventional sources such as deepwater & oil sands. They're calling for over $70/bbl this year, and 100/bbl by the end of next year.

Another interesting fact from the report - much of the oil that isn't depleting is either in state control (such as Saudi) or been renationalized (such as Venezuela) - the result is about 80% of the world's reserves remain off-limits to private investment. Not looking good for the major oil companies.
User avatar
Art_Vandelai
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed 11 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: CIBC: 2004 Hubbert's Peak in low-cost Conventional Crud

Unread postby seahorse2 » Mon 13 Feb 2006, 11:46:30

CIBC is interesting. I'm sorry I don't have the links, but they also previously stated, I think in 2005, maybe 2004, that Ghawar had peaked. In a later estimation, they said the Canadian currency, the loonie, was at "risk" of becoming the world's reserve currency. Interestingly, the Canadian loonie has risen in value against the dollar as of late.
User avatar
seahorse2
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2042
Joined: Mon 18 Oct 2004, 03:00:00

Re: CIBC: 2004 Hubbert's Peak in low-cost Conventional Crud

Unread postby Wallygator » Wed 15 Feb 2006, 00:06:09

That's very interesting. Thank you for that link. I wonder if CIBC purposely tries to paint a dark future in order to prop up investments for the Canadian tar sands?
User avatar
Wallygator
Wood
Wood
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Fri 18 Feb 2005, 04:00:00

Today Marks 50 Years Since Hubbert Predicted US Production P

Unread postby uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Fri 10 Mar 2006, 14:22:48

Today marks the fifty year anniversary of M. King Hubbert’s seminal speech in which he accurately forecasted the 1970 peak of United States oil production. Few heeded Hubbert’s warning at the time and many - notably including high ranking officials the United States Geological Survey and industry - actively sought to discredit his work. The lack of preparation on the government’s part set the United States up for the oil shocks of the 1970’s and egregious dependence on foreign oil that we experience today.

Hubbert (1903-1989), a distinguished geophysicist, first developed his peak oil theory in the middle 1930s. He first advanced these ideas at the 1948 American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) convention. Hubbert was "swamped with mail, universally favorable" after the 1948 speech was printed a year later. But it was hardly noticed by the petroleum industry even though it was little different from the 1956 version that caused uproar. Hubbert could be more specific in his 1956 analysis because of additional data and he predicted US crude production would peak in 10-15 years. This conclusion, which was almost universally considered outrageous at the time, proved startlingly accurate.

In honor of M. King Hubbert’s courageous stand, Post Carbon Institute is hosting an online tribute featuring interviews with contemporaries and successors of Hubbert. The tribute provides a rare glimpse into the life and times of M. King Hubbert, the grandfather of the peak oil movement. The tribute features interviews with his nephew Michael Hubbert and former Secretary of the Interior Stewart Udall. The tribute includes Hubbert’s Successors I, the first of series of compilations of brief audio commentaries. Hubbert’s Successors I features Roscoe Bartlett, Richard Heinberg, Albert Bartlett, Megan Quinn, Pat Murphy, Walter Youngquist, Ron Swenson, Kenneth Deffeyes, Matthew Simmons, Stewart Udall, Jan Lundberg, Colin Campbell and Steve Andrews. "There is not other single name so connected with energy and oil as M. King Hubbert," says U.S. Congressman Roscoe Bartlett (R-MD). "His pioneering work has been quoted by just about everyone who is interested in the subject. His influence cannot be overestimated. He was a giant."

The tribute also includes a Hubbert bibliography, a narrative of the events surrounding the speech and other milestones in Hubbert’s life, and previously unavailable images. The tribute will be updated regularly for at least the next year. Features to be posted soon include an interview with Hubbert historian and interviewer Ronald Doel and previously unavailable video footage of a conversation with Hubbert, as well as Hubbert’s Successors II compilation.

http://www.mkinghubbert.com/
User avatar
uNkNowN ElEmEnt
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2587
Joined: Sat 04 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: perpetual state of exhaustion

Re: Today Marks 50 Years Since Hubbert Predicted US Producti

Unread postby jeezlouise » Fri 10 Mar 2006, 20:20:24

Funny, I did a search for "Hubbert" on Shell's home page and nothing came up! I knew you peak oil nutjobs were collectively hallucinating him.
User avatar
jeezlouise
Lignite
Lignite
 
Posts: 298
Joined: Sun 05 Feb 2006, 04:00:00

Re: Today Marks 50 Years Since Hubbert Predicted US Producti

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Fri 10 Mar 2006, 21:21:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jeezlouise', 'F')unny, I did a search for "Hubbert" on Shell's home page and nothing came up! I knew you peak oil nutjobs were collectively hallucinating him.


I believe you are thinking of the fictional Humbert Humbert character. Humbert is the adopted pseudonym of the main character and unreliable narrator of the 1955 novel Lolita, by Russian-born American novelist Vladimir Nabokov. Interestingly, that was also 50 years ago.
User avatar
WebHubbleTelescope
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu 08 Jul 2004, 03:00:00

Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Geko45 » Fri 07 Apr 2006, 02:19:07

Ok, so I am taking Quantitative Reasoning and I want to do my class project on PO. I'd like to do an HL analysis on world production, but first I have to show that the method is valid. No problem, I'll just plot an HL for the the United States. I can show the method works by matching the linear projection with what we now know to be true. Problem, they aren't matching!

I plot the data easy enough and it seems to settle into a linear pattern at about 1942, so I plot a linear projection from 1942-1970 and I get an estimated URR of a little more than 160Gb. Of course, I have the data from 1970-2005 plotted too and it clearly points to an estimated URR that is well past 200Gb, which of course is much more inline with reality.

One possible problem is that I have no data for before 1920, but they are such small amounts before 1920 would they make that much difference? I could plot the trendline using later data, but the whole point is to show that the method is an accurate predictor before the event so using data after 1970 would defeat the purpose. Any help would be appreicated.

Here is my spreadsheet:
http://www.mylinuxisp.com/~blawrence/oi ... ctions.xls

I grabbed data from the EIA for 1920-2005 from here:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mcrfpus1M.htm

[Edit: I found my problem and fixed it, see below]
Last edited by Geko45 on Mon 10 Apr 2006, 00:27:28, edited 6 times in total.
Geko45 - Producer of Doomer Porn
User avatar
Geko45
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S. Lower 48

Unread postby Doly » Fri 07 Apr 2006, 03:36:44

I've only looked at Hubbert's model fairly briefly, but isn't production supposed to follow a gaussian curve? And in that case, I don't think you get a line here.

I remember reading Defeyes' book that he said Hubbert used a logistical curve when the data actually fit better a gaussian. Maybe this is what you're finding here.
User avatar
Doly
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Geko45 » Fri 07 Apr 2006, 15:26:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', 'I')'ve only looked at Hubbert's model fairly briefly, but isn't production supposed to follow a gaussian curve? And in that case, I don't think you get a line here.

I think you have the cart before the horse here. I hadn't gotten that far yet. Before you can plot the logistic (or gaussian) curve, you have to at least work out the values for the Hubbert linearization. The HL is useful in its own right for projecting what will be the ultimately recoverable amount. The URR is determined by where the linear projection meets the X axis. Where the linear projection meets the Y axis is also important as this is a key input into Hubbert's logistic curve (as is the URR).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') remember reading Defeyes' book that he said Hubbert used a logistical curve when the data actually fit better a gaussian. Maybe this is what you're finding here.

Chapter 3 of Deffeyes book covers both the Hubbert linearization and logistic curve.

Good news, I corrected my linearization and went on to do the logistic curve. I was just grabbing to far back and the data hadn't stabilized yet. I'm now using 1955-1970 to plot the line. The first graph shows my corrected HL which projects a URR of 230Gb for the United States. The second graph shows my logistic curve and as you can see it fits well with what we now know to be true about U.S. production.

Now to do the same for the whole world...

Image

Image
Geko45 - Producer of Doomer Porn
User avatar
Geko45
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Geko45 » Fri 07 Apr 2006, 16:44:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'g')ood work Geko45. Mind if I use your charts for dog&pony shows at City Hall? They're purty charts :)

I'd be honored! If you've already downloaded the spreadhseet then download it again, because I just posted the full one at the link above. Its got all the charts I've posted here on PO and a few I haven't (yet). Check back regularly too since there are a few more charts that I plan to do but haven't gotten too yet.
Geko45 - Producer of Doomer Porn
User avatar
Geko45
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Geko45 » Sat 08 Apr 2006, 17:00:43

Ok, I finished my world Hubbert linearization and logistic charts. My projections put peak oil on March 14, 2007, a nice sunny Wednesday. I'm not sure what grande cosmic significance there is to the date falling on a "hump day", but there you have it. My linearization chart yielded a world URR of about 2.23 trillion barrels. Here are the graphs.

PS. Many thanks to Stuart Staniford who provided world production data for the years 1930-1964 (the BP Statitical Review of World Energy only goes back as far as 1965).

Image

Image
Geko45 - Producer of Doomer Porn
User avatar
Geko45
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Houston, TX

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby WebHubbleTelescope » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 00:28:01

Geko45,
I suppose you learned something about plotting and fitting curves, but remember that this Hubbert Linearization is purely an empirical approach. All parameters to the model are based on heuristics that have no physical meaning (or they have an absurd physical meaning that does not even obey dimensional analysis or a Gedunken experiment).

No one has yet shown how you can derive the curve from first principles.

Now that would have been a really inventive class project.
User avatar
WebHubbleTelescope
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 950
Joined: Thu 08 Jul 2004, 03:00:00

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Geko45 » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 01:35:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WebHubbleTelescope', 'N')ow that would have been a really inventive class project.

Methinks that you are being to philosophically minded to be of any metaphysical good.

:-D
Geko45 - Producer of Doomer Porn
User avatar
Geko45
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Thu 28 Jul 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Houston, TX
Top

Re: Need help with Hubbert Linearization for U.S.

Unread postby Doly » Mon 10 Apr 2006, 09:11:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WebHubbleTelescope', '
')No one has yet shown how you can derive the curve from first principles.


If you think it's a gaussian, it derives pretty much from the Central Limit Theorem. A big enough collection of curves under certain conditions that production curves will fulfill will aggregate to a gaussian curve.
User avatar
Doly
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 4370
Joined: Fri 03 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

cron