[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', 'R')owante,
I have ever so much more predilection to view any system of human consciousness that organizes intention into bureaucracies and institutions as a death knell to future generations than my peers, that most often, there is very little common ground. It becomes, in the end, an issue of how we sift, winnow and sort perceptions into the grand mosaic we tacitly call Reality.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Call this a flame if you like, but I mean to flame hard. There is nothing I detest more than pompous empty rape of language. If you have an idea, state it in an efficient direct manner. This phenomenon of ponderous and damn near indecipherable abuse of language seems to be one of the defining characteristics of our age along with paranoia. I suspect the two are actually quite related in their etiology. Y'know, there's something going on, but you don't know what it is. I saw this in the Education College I attended to get my teaching credential. Rampant use of buzzwords with no intrinsic meaning. I've seen this in art criticism writings. It is a use of language by people who haven't got a clue what a real idea is, but delude themselves into thinking there is really something going on in their heads when in point of fact there isn't.

[EnviroEngr]

I am spanked; you are vented. Now you have a mission. Good luck and thank you.

Now let's move on.

[EnviroEngr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')owante,

I have ever so much more predilection to view any system of human consciousness that organizes intention into bureaucracies and institutions as a death knell to future generations than my peers, that most often, there is very little common ground. It becomes, in the end, an issue of how we sift, winnow and sort perceptions into the grand mosaic we tacitly call Reality.

Living right amongst it day after day, I can see with an open, clear and courageous mind that preposterous levels of denial and avoidance exist in every corner and at every level of this society. It is remarkably "Stepford Wife"-like. In your plea for alertness and equanimity, I hear the same tone of urgency that I hear from within.

A cursory psychological overview of the lay of the land reveals childhoods and parenting wracked with myriad abuses and insidious indoctrinations -- what else can come of this other than that which is here now if the inner work and healing remains yet largely undone? Only clarity, critical thinking and astute living can begin to reveal the mysteries of the fears, joys, torments and triumphs that permeate all of our individual and collective lives.

I fully realize as I say all this, I'm leaving myself wide open as a tall lightning rod to get struck from any and all directions by high energy strokes. If need be, then so be it.

For the benefit of the critical reader, allow me to present some of my personal evolution with the implications of the topic of hominidic eco-parasitism, a wrinkle on the theme of "The Tragedy of the Commons" by Garrett Hardin:

[PenultimateManStanding]

I thought you wanted to move on. I've said what I have to say, and besides, I post too much.

[EnviroEngr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'I') thought you wanted to move on. I've said what I have to say, and besides, I post too much.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', '
')You're right, and also, moving on means making sure that anything confusing is cleared up

[EnviroEngr]

I would say: "I'm a frayed knot!", but it isn't true. We all know how damn sharp that blade was. When I was in R&D, the story was of two chaps solving a volume problem. One was a mathematician and the other a shop-floor grunt. The challenge was who could get the right answer the fastest. There were no restrictions on method. So while the mathematician was setting up and solving the equations, the grunt fashioned a displacement model and directly measured it -- in about a quarter of the time.

I don't know if we're on the same wavelength here, but I am sensing a similar understanding.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Promises, the're meant to be broken. Your story goes back at least as far as Thomas Edison and his renowned lab. As for similar understandings, that's what straightforward language is for, my friend.

[EnviroEngr]

I would have to submit for your consideration, however, that there are human experiences for which there is no straightforward language. Call it ineffability.

Could it be, perhaps, that music and poetry step in to fill this gap, but only insufficiently?

<< We'll get back to Agent Smith and Mr. Heinberg eventually or I could split this digression out. Let me think it over after you reply. >>

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', ' ') I appreciate your candor and am glad you feel listened to.

[rerere]

Errr, get a room U 2.

[MikeB]

Pen...Man. I'm seconding your motion here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') care deeply about the issue of communication and how it can be abused by shoddy use of language. Call me a curmudgeon, but that's how I feel. And I will risk seeming like an insensitive jackass to further what I believe.

[Specop_007]

Simple words for a simple man. I dont try to be some sophisticated savvy kat, and I dont rightly want to be either.

[EnviroEngr]

Anyone else care to weigh in on this?

I'm the buck in Larson's cartoon with the 'unfortunate' birthmark; so let 'er rip. You all know you need the therapy. As I look around, I see that many of us are in the ANGER stage of grief.


If there's enough interest by a large enough audience, I can start posting to suit my readership. I'd need to profile who you are so I know how you process what you read so that I can write like you think. That's a can-do proposition; just need to know that's the new goal now. Been too selfish in the past... I have been outed.

I haven't paid much attention to this before because I wasn't getting any feedback telling me to do otherwise until now. Those who have corresponded were either already familiar with the jargon or have bested me with esoteric terms and sentence structures I haven't even come across yet -- much denser and "gobbledegook"-like than my random musings to be sure. The few clarifications that were asked for were made right in situ. I had no clue I was offending anyone or had enough of a following in the fringe areas to warrant expanding the monologues to cover the interests of the lay reader. That may be changing. I'm cool with that... don't mind an outreach if it's of value to someone other than whom I was addressing originally.

I am intensely aware, for those who doubt, of the co-opting of not only the English Language (think neuro-linguistic programming large numbers of people simultaneously), but several very specialized languages and symbol systems as well. As far as I can tell, the operation is part of a power grab from the masses -- not terribly unlike shady check cashing outfits charging poor people dearly for advance 'pay day' loans. I share in all of your frustrations and outright anger over how language is being weaponized to strip us 'poor' citizens of even more of our powers of State. And, yes, it IS an outrage!! So, why aren't people filling the streets demanding an end to this RAPE of our basic human rights, as PenultimateManStanding so eloquently inferred by extension?? The image of frogs in a pot of water over a fire quickly comes to mind. Rape ain't the half of it dude. I may be pompous and empty in my rape of English, but I can assure you in no uncertain terms that other people's rape of the language is by far more deliberate, calculated, insidious and professional than mine. We can go over the Kubark manual sometime if you'd like to get a flavor of how skillfully language can be used, for example, in an interrogation. Dare I say the ire is misdirected?

But, seriously though: If y'all want me to be an asset in a different, kinder, gentler, easier-to-understand, more readable sort of way, for crissakes, Just Ask! I don't need a debilitating ad hominem bunker buster to get my attention; just say "please explain that" until I learn how you assign meanings to words. Before long, I'll be talking to you the same way your own brain does. Better for you. Better for me. Better for everyone! (unless you're at war with your own brain, then maybe not.) I'll also know then what you care about, why, what you want to learn about it and how you best understand it -- literally, symbolically, visually or [coining an adverb and a noun] synestheticly (you synesthetes know who you are!) If you help me, I might be able to help you.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', ' ') And, yes, it IS an outrage!! So, why aren't people filling the streets demanding an end to this RAPE of our basic human rights, as PenultimateManStanding so eloquently inferred by extension?

[EnviroEngr]

That's possible. But there's way more going on here than that and it's not just about you. Sooner or later, it will come to the surface. The thread is split and renamed so that developing what I'm looking for doesn't interfere or get confused with anything else and also eventually addresses the issue I hope to demonstrate at some point in time. It's also possible that nothing will develop at all. It depends entirely on inputs.

Also, if I can improve my skills in the process, it's a win-win. FYI, that's the only extent to which I'm taking it personally. I'm mortal, I change.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Let it come bubbling away to the surface, buffoon, you still won't be able to put together a coherant thought! Read the book or else you are doomed!

[Apathy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', '
')And, yes, it IS an outrage!! So, why aren't people filling the streets demanding an end to this RAPE of our basic human rights, as PenultimateManStanding so eloquently inferred by extension??

[Chuck]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnviroEngr', 'B')ut, seriously though: If y'all want me to be an asset in a different, kinder, gentler, easier-to-understand, more readable sort of way, for crissakes, Just Ask!