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Is America Going Broke?

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby FireJack » Sat 17 Jun 2006, 16:27:34

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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 18 Jun 2006, 07:56:01

How to Fix Social Security - raise the FICA tax ceiling for wages up to $150,000 a year. Done.

You rich guy's can make other investments - no crying here. Please!

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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby 53convert » Sun 18 Jun 2006, 11:53:04

Heres a novel approuch.
Stop useing the social security funds for programs not intended originally.
Stop giving social security benefits to those who have never paid into the system.
Stop useing the social security fund to pay for Border security guards.
DOnt give SS to illegal immigrants.
Medicare benefits only to those who have paid into social security or into medicare through payroll deduction.
I know, not main stream liberal take care of the poor and the hungry and the lazy so lauch away
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby MrBill » Mon 19 Jun 2006, 10:31:50

I just don't understand you Euric? The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

    The United States
    Germany
    Japan
    China


And they are all large importers of commodities and energy from the four corners of the world.

Yes, Germany is a large exporter and the main contributor to the European economy and the EU budget, but they also run a budget deficit. The rest of old Europe is a mess to be honest.

Yes, Japan is a larger exporter and runs a current acount surplus, but in the end they also sell a large part of the manufacturing surplus to the USA and would be poorer without that component to their growth which is shaky enough as it is. And they have a rapidly aging population.

Yes, China it seems can make anything cheaper, but they do so using foreign capital and technology. Their external foreign reserves of $800 billion would be almost wiped out just to cover non-performing loans to state firms and Chinese companies that have benefited from $60 billion a year in FDI have never had to pay market rates for that capital. They are a collection of loss making industries designed to generate employment, which is ultimately dependent on countries like the USA importing from them.

Could there be more inter-Asian trade? Certainly, but where is it today? But even with Japan and China's foreign exchange reserves they are a drop in the bucket compared to the some $17.7 trillion that money managers control. Private money flows exceed central bank reserves by +600%. Those wealth managers will decide who lives, thrives or dies on the vine, not some politburo hacks.

So despite problems in America and their large external deficits, I just do not see how you can predict their ultimate demise and then at the sametime make the assumption that everyone else BUT America will be just fine after a short period of adjustment?

Someone from America must of kicked you when you were a puppy and now you're hostile to anything Made in the USA?
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby pb_2_au » Mon 19 Jun 2006, 11:47:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'I') bought a lawnmower at a garage sale today. It was a good deal, but not a whole lot cheaper than a brand new Chinese made one.


Hey I bought a lawnmower last week too!

A peak oil friendly one made in .... GERMANY great little lawnmower, check it out, definitely worth the money it's really really light, so you can swing it around easily, it's German engineering is something to marvel:

Brill push mower

you have to order them online. Helps my Euro investment too!
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby SoothSayer » Mon 19 Jun 2006, 12:58:24

The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

The United States
Germany
Japan
China


Hmmm - the US is the only one with a negative balance of payments.

The others actually make things people want.

The US makes banknotes.
Technology will save us!
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Kez » Mon 19 Jun 2006, 14:16:53

"Is America going broke?"

Yes, but just like the individual mentality of most Americans, who will not suffer, or sacrifice, or cut-back on their lifestyles, America will just push the debt farther into the future and keep things rolling. When it crashes, who knows what will happen, but it won't be pretty.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby CARVER » Mon 19 Jun 2006, 20:25:31

Over the years lots of smart people left countries all over the world for the US, because of the opportunities in the US. These people could leave the US if other countries would provide better conditions/opportunities. Doesn't really matter where they live, I don't think you want to exclude those people. I don't think exclusion of people is a solution.

I don't want to see their economy fall, or see them suffer in a war. I hope we will see them change their behavior, mainly their foreign policy and their consumption. They may consume a lot, that however doesn't mean they don't produce very useful stuff.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Kingcoal » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 22:24:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '[')b]The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

The United States
Germany
Japan
China

Hmmm - the US is the only one with a negative balance of payments.

The others actually make things people want.

The US makes banknotes.


The US does make things... for other Americans. The US is loaded with low volume, high price, specialty manufacturers, I've worked with many. These manufacturers don't generally sell outside the country because there either isn't enough of a market to make it worth it, or there are markets, but they are protected with trade barriers. Face it, outside the US, the entire world wants to export a lot and import very little. The US is where the markets are at, why bother going through the trouble of trying to sell something to other countries when you've got the biggest markets at home. Do you think China would bother selling to the outside world if they had good markets in their own country? US manufacturers are structured the way they are because that is the what makes the best business sense, not because they are hiding under the covers or something.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Kingcoal » Tue 20 Jun 2006, 22:26:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '[')b]The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

The United States
Germany
Japan
China

Hmmm - the US is the only one with a negative balance of payments.

The others actually make things people want.

The US makes banknotes.


The US does make things... for other Americans. The US is loaded with low volume, high price, specialty manufacturers, I've worked with many. These manufacturers don't generally sell outside the country because there either isn't enough of a market to make it worth it, or there are markets, but they are protected with trade barriers. Face it, outside the US, the entire world wants to export a lot and import very little. The US is where the markets are at, why bother going through the trouble of trying to sell something to other countries when you've got the biggest markets at home. Do you think China would bother selling to the outside world if they had good markets in their own country? US manufacturers are structured the way they are because that is the what makes the best business sense, not because they are hiding under the covers or something.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 21 Jun 2006, 03:32:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '[')b]The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

The United States
Germany
Japan
China

Hmmm - the US is the only one with a negative balance of payments.

The others actually make things people want.

The US makes banknotes.


The US does make things... for other Americans. The US is loaded with low volume, high price, specialty manufacturers, I've worked with many. These manufacturers don't generally sell outside the country because there either isn't enough of a market to make it worth it, or there are markets, but they are protected with trade barriers. Face it, outside the US, the entire world wants to export a lot and import very little. The US is where the markets are at, why bother going through the trouble of trying to sell something to other countries when you've got the biggest markets at home. Do you think China would bother selling to the outside world if they had good markets in their own country? US manufacturers are structured the way they are because that is the what makes the best business sense, not because they are hiding under the covers or something.


Stop talking sense, you'll upset the whole balance on PO between ragers and doomers! ; - )

Page 170 - IMF

Anyone who is capable of tracking down the wildest of conspiracy theories on the Internet is also, IMHO, capable of getting the facts straight.

On page 170 of this link, you will see a breakdown of GDP and Exports of Goods & Services by country of origin. Now you may tell me that the IMF's numbers are wrong, but then please provide me with the correct ones? Thanks.

Of course, we can argue all day whether toasters are more important than high technology or biotechnology for that matter. It is certainly easier to pirate software code than a container full of hardware, but both are possible.

And as well we can debate whether any of this is sustainable in a peak oil world, but at least we can agree on the numbers and then qualify them later? Thanks.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Scactha » Wed 21 Jun 2006, 07:51:10

Tables just show that the EU´s GDP consist alot of exports. Are we to assume it´s automatically to the US? Last I heard Sweden did export more to Chindia than the US.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby MrBill » Wed 21 Jun 2006, 10:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Scactha', 'T')ables just show that the EU´s GDP consist alot of exports. Are we to assume it´s automatically to the US? Last I heard Sweden did export more to Chindia than the US.


There is no assumption that exports go to the USA, that is EU exports as a percentage of world exports or trade if you like, but you'll have to read the footnotes yourself. Thanks.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Euric » Sun 25 Jun 2006, 13:44:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SoothSayer', '[')b]The biggest producers and exporters are in no particular order

The United States
Germany
Japan
China

Hmmm - the US is the only one with a negative balance of payments.

The others actually make things people want.

The US makes banknotes.



Germany is a larger exporter then the US.

Maybe it is because the other three produce products in metric units, and the US doesn't. What other reason could there be for nobody wanting what the US produces?
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Euric » Sun 25 Jun 2006, 13:50:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CARVER', 'O')ver the years lots of smart people left countries all over the world for the US, because of the opportunities in the US. These people could leave the US if other countries would provide better conditions/opportunities. Doesn't really matter where they live, I don't think you want to exclude those people. I don't think exclusion of people is a solution.

I don't want to see their economy fall, or see them suffer in a war. I hope we will see them change their behavior, mainly their foreign policy and their consumption. They may consume a lot, that however doesn't mean they don't produce very useful stuff.



These immigrants prospered in the US, but their children aren't. They have the illusion of prosperity because of the petrodollar subsidy of their credit system. Why cut back on your consumption if someone else is willing to pay for it and you think you are getting it for free?

They won't change their behavior, that is the problem. They will fight hard to maintain their free ride, even if they have to destroy half the world to do so.

If they produced useful stuff, people would be buying it and their exports would be greater then their imports. But they are not, so what they produce might not be so useful after-all. Part of their problem is not producing goods in metric units.
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Re: Is America Going Broke?

Unread postby Euric » Sun 25 Jun 2006, 14:00:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '
')The US does make things... for other Americans. The US is loaded with low volume, high price, specialty manufacturers, I've worked with many. These manufacturers don't generally sell outside the country because there either isn't enough of a market to make it worth it, or there are markets, but they are protected with trade barriers. Face it, outside the US, the entire world wants to export a lot and import very little. The US is where the markets are at, why bother going through the trouble of trying to sell something to other countries when you've got the biggest markets at home. Do you think China would bother selling to the outside world if they had good markets in their own country? US manufacturers are structured the way they are because that is the what makes the best business sense, not because they are hiding under the covers or something.


The only trade barriers the US encounters outside the US are those of its own making.

European countries export everywhere in the world. What trade barriers do they encounter?

The US doesn't produce products that meet world needs or conditions, like using metric parts and speaking in metric to foreign users. Not being a metric producer is America's #1 trade barrier.

Another could be electrcal goods. How many American companies produce goods to work on 400/240 V; 50 Hz systems, the most common power standard in the world?
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The US is going broke ... This is an official announcement!

Unread postby Elan_Rasa » Fri 14 Jul 2006, 12:16:35

The fact that the US is broke (according to Empire of Debt) or is going broke is not surprising to me. What was surprising was that the St Louis Federal Reserve would be making this announcement in a public forum and clearly stated that the current administration intentionally hid our financial problems. A long read but eye-opening nevertheless.

Here is the link

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publicat ... likoff.pdf
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Re: The US is going broke ... This is an official announceme

Unread postby KhanCEO » Fri 14 Jul 2006, 12:31:47

1.Empire of Debt has tons of information about our country's debt. I suggest everyone read that book.
2.I hate how the people that are causing this problem are offering a "solution" to the problem they created. The Federal Reserve System is a private bank that prints money or creates numbers out of thin air then loans it to the government with interest which is then paid for by the people of the U.S. through income tax. What a scam and the nerve of these people to offer a fix; I hope who ever wrote this trash gets hit by a bus. THESE PEOPLE CREATED THE PROBLEM.

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/

Go see what your country has become.

"A retail sales tax, personalized society security and a globally budgeted universal healthcare system" These are their "answers" to our problems.
1 A Retail Sales Tax=Rob more people of their money.
2. Personalized Society Security= After 50+ years of ripping off my parents who paid into society security their whole lives, our dear sweet federal reserve is suggesting "WE DONT GIVE THEM A DIME". If anyone esle other than government did this, they would be thrown in jail.
3.Globally Budgeted Universal Healthcare System=A society that is set up to make you develop some type of illness will now FORCE you to pay money to for-profit corporations that will only offer overpriced TREATMENTS (never any cures or prevention). Its bad enough people are going bankrupt because of overpriced treatment ; now everyone will have to pay for it!

(Let it be known that I do believe medical treatment should be free to anyone who needs it , however anything for-profit medical treatment should be illegal in this country and putting dangerous cancer causing poisons in your food should also be illegal; we dont have an FDA that works.)

What this paper by the federal reserve system fails to mention is how it plays an important role in robbing us all everyday, nonstop. I really hate these people.
Last edited by KhanCEO on Fri 14 Jul 2006, 13:26:43, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The US is going broke ... This is an official announceme

Unread postby Fergus » Fri 14 Jul 2006, 12:32:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Elan_Rasa', 'T')he fact that the US is broke (according to Empire of Debt) or is going broke is not surprising to me. What was surprising was that the St Louis Federal Reserve would be making this announcement in a public forum and clearly stated that the current administration intentionally hid our financial problems. A long read but eye-opening nevertheless.

Here is the link

http://research.stlouisfed.org/publicat ... likoff.pdf



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Re: The US is going broke ... This is an official announceme

Unread postby nero » Fri 14 Jul 2006, 14:11:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KhanCEO', 'T')he Federal Reserve System is a private bank that prints money or creates numbers out of thin air then loans it to the government with interest which is then paid for by the people of the U.S. through income tax. What a scam and the nerve of these people to offer a fix; I hope who ever wrote this trash gets hit by a bus. THESE PEOPLE CREATED THE PROBLEM.


Well you forgot to mention that the Federal reserve system is also the sixth largest contributor to the federal budget. Most of the Fed's "profits" are given to the federal government. the member interstate banks do receive a dividend on the capital they are required to invest in the Federal reserve system. They receive a 6% return on their equity. At times the member banks object to having to use some of their capital to fund the federal reserve at all since they feel it puts them at a competitive disadvantage internationally relative to foreign banks.
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