[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I') wonder what the internet would look like if IT companies had to operate like normal businesses back in the old days meaning they had to survive purely based on profits and could NOT use the stock market as a source of funding.

hmm lets just call it web 3.0

[heroineworshipper]

Silicon Valley has been pretty immune so far. The layoffs have been 25,000 at HP in Austin, 3000 at Tesla in Michigan, 3400 at Micron in Idaho, 540 at Electronic Arts in Irvine, 3000 at Xerox in Massachussets, 650 TI layoffs in Austin. 575 at Intuit. 2600 at Motorola

Silicon Valley: 1500 at Yahoo, 1000 at ebay, 1600 at AMD, 100 at Tower Semiconductor.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heroineworshipper', 'S')ilicon Valley has been pretty immune so far. The layoffs have been 25,000 at HP in Austin, 3000 at Tesla in Michigan, 3400 at Micron in Idaho, 540 at Electronic Arts in Irvine, 3000 at Xerox in Massachussets, 650 TI layoffs in Austin. 575 at Intuit. 2600 at Motorola

Silicon Valley: 1500 at Yahoo, 1000 at ebay, 1600 at AMD, 100 at Tower Semiconductor.

[errorist]

I stepped out of IT industry almost 4 years ago. 12 years of designing/programming financial systems (stock exchanges, banking) needed too much recreational liquids and even switching from alcohol to peak hour urban mountain bike cross, pot and insane hackysack did not bring the stress level down. Burnout it was. Switched to CAD (houses, furniture, landscape planning, ...), teaching CAD and some recreational paid programming every now and then. Metal and wood mastering also gives some additional income.
IT sector is being one of the all being hit by contracting economy hard. The next sector being heavily hit is sector wich is using taxpayers money.

[retiredguy]

Interesting you mentioned alcohol. When I started my career thirty years ago, everyone I knew who worked in the IT industry drank. One place I worked was located next to a bar. The bar was like our second office. The owner would deliver our bar tabs to our secretary every Monday.

We worked insane hours and were on call 24/7. I remember one time being on the job for 36 straight hours. When I started to come unglued mentally, I went home and went to bed. Within an hour someone from work called with a problem.

Later years were less insane, but being on call 24/7 was always the norm.

Jotapay,

The worst thing you can do is create a system that run near flawlessly. Noone will notice and management will definitely undervalue your work.

Make sure your system is buggy, so management will see you constantly finding and fixing the bugs. They will be impressed with your dedication and you will almost certainly be promoted.

Seen it happen dozens of times. The worst programmers always end up in management.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'H')ow anyone can stay sane being chanined behind a desk in a windowless room with fluorescent lights beating down on ya is beyond me?

[frankthetank]

Snowrunner-

New Orleans?

Your employer should buy a barge and save on property taxes. You could become the first mate.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('frankthetank', 'S')nowrunner-

New Orleans?

Your employer should buy a barge and save on property taxes. You could become the first mate.

[frankthetank]

Makes working at the your desk naked a lot easier...

[Jotapay]

I really do dream about another job away from this mismanaged crap, but $100K/yr is hard to leave behind when you still have debts. IT is a really mismanaged industry. It could be so much more efficient if someone was running the show who really understood the economic principle of opportunity cost and who also understood what was involved in making a good software system. Right now, you have people making decisions for their department and corporation who really have no business making those decisions because of their own shortcomings with the subject material, and thus multi-million dollar mistakes occur. I've seen it happen more than once.

I'm scheduled to start some medical EMS/EMT classes in the spring and my plan is to get at least two of the three EMT certifications. I don't know if I'll do that as a job, but it's a skill I want to learn anyway.

I actually have thought of taking classes and learning how to be a machinist, cutting objects out of a cast or forged billet of steel, etc. I'm really good with mechanical concepts so that might play out well for a job. I have a science degree so I know how the different states (liquid, solid, etc) of metal work.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', 'I') really do dream about another job away from this mismanaged crap, but $100K/yr is hard to leave behind when you still have debts. IT is a really mismanaged industry. It could be so much more efficient if someone was running the show who really understood the economic principle of opportunity cost and who also understood what was involved in making a good software system. Right now, you have people making decisions for their department and corporation who really have no business making those decisions because of their own shortcomings with the subject material, and thus multi-million dollar mistakes occur. I've seen it happen more than once.

[retiredguy]

Snowrunner,

Your analysis is spot-on. At the end of my career, I was sysadmin for a number of Windows servers. What a nightmare. An OS not isolated from application code. Apply a MS-approved patch and wait for the blue screen.

Before I retired, I built and outfitted a woodworking shop. Haven't throw a line of code since.

[Falconoffury]

I can see that I am definitely one of the youngest IT people who frequent these forums. I have only been in the IT field for about 5 years.

The reason I am not as stressed as most IT workers is because I don't program. I went to college for programming, but I have never had a programming job. Strangely, I do everything except programming at my current job. At first, I was hired purely as corporate tech support. 2 years later, and I'm involved with every aspect of IT except programming. I'm solving everyone's problems, fixing the broken computers and other equipment, teaching people how to use new programs, running network cables through the drywall and punching wall plates, administering user access on the server, testing the programs that the programmers are making, querying and testing the SQL databases, keeping an inventory of all the equipment in the company. Everyone in the company knows to go to me for almost every issue not related to programming.

I'm not paid much because it is a pretty small company with an IT department of 2 currently (used to be 4). I don't know what future employers will think seeing an education in programming, but work experience in almost every other aspect of IT, but I hope it will help me. I would like to know what some of the more experienced IT workers think of this such as Jotapay and retiredguy.

[Minvaren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'T')he worst thing you can do is create a system that run near flawlessly. Noone will notice and management will definitely undervalue your work.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('retiredguy', 'T')he worst thing you can do is create a system that run near flawlessly. Noone will notice and management will definitely undervalue your work.

[Falconoffury]

Underappreciated is right. We have a stereotypical boss that wants everything done yesterday. He asks for changes to a program on a whim, and tells you when it should be completed. The poor programmers aren't given the chance to explain why it may take much longer. So the programmers get to work on the change, and the deadline that the boss set naturally goes over. The boss is angry about the deadlines being missed, but he doesn't have the time for a full explanation of why it is taking so long. Few things can hurt an IT department more than management with no IT training.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'T')he reason I am not as stressed as most IT workers is because I don't program. I went to college for programming, but I have never had a programming job. Strangely, I do everything except programming at my current job. At first, I was hired purely as corporate tech support. 2 years later, and I'm involved with every aspect of IT except programming. I'm solving everyone's problems, fixing the broken computers and other equipment, teaching people how to use new programs, running network cables through the drywall and punching wall plates, administering user access on the server, testing the programs that the programmers are making, querying and testing the SQL databases, keeping an inventory of all the equipment in the company. Everyone in the company knows to go to me for almost every issue not related to programming.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'F')ew things can hurt an IT department more than management with no IT training.

[retiredguy]

You must know some of the managers I used to work for!!

Regarding programming: Custom programming of business apps was dying when I left the business and I doubt it is coming back anytime soon.

When I took a job in apps development at the UW, there were over 200 programmers. When I left, there were less than 60.

I spent the last fifteen years of my career as a systems programmer, and I still did a fair amount of coding, mostly in assembler and C.

Fortunately for me, I worked on systems that, for the most part were my own creation, and were vital to the business of the UW.

However, most of the young guys in my systems engineering group worked as system admins and did very little coding.

This was a depressing trend for a guy (me) who really liked to code.

[retiredguy]

BTW, it has been a pleasure sharing IT stories with you folks.

I always looked forward to going to IT conferences so that I could discuss what I did for a living with someone whose eyes didn't roll up in his/her head while I was talking.

I gave up trying to explain what I did to my wife early in my career.