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Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby AgentR11 » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 11:32:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdTheNad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Is there a Godwin's law for Pol Pot or Mussolini, because those are two possibilities also.

I don't know, but I do think people are too quick to invoke Godwin's law these days. Everyone knows the saying, "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". Well it's hard to learn from history when every time you liken some of the things that are happening in various countires to what happened in Nazi Germany it becomes a conversation killer.


My opinion, and the reason I posted it, was that the first page of this thread was almost a poster child definition of what Godwin's law is about. The Nazi reference popped up, abruptly, hugely, as if it added something substantial to the discussion; at least when PS does it, it usually has some lead in with references to Mein Kampf or whatever..

Myself, I rarely use the term "Godwin's Law" as I'm just not impressed by Nazi's and Nazi parallels to begin with. They don't kill the conversation for me, any more that someone randomly writing, "Doug has hair" in a thread. This however, was just so blatant and ridiculous that it made me laugh, so I felt compelled to comment on.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 13:34:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdTheNad', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Is there a Godwin's law for Pol Pot or Mussolini, because those are two possibilities also.

I don't know, but I do think people are too quick to invoke Godwin's law these days. Everyone knows the saying, "those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". Well it's hard to learn from history when every time you liken some of the things that are happening in various countires to what happened in Nazi Germany it becomes a conversation killer.

I'd like to email those useless pieces of sh*t Carl Levin and John McCain my suggestion for a new US flag to go along with their legislation: a flag with swasticas instead of stars.

Seriously, fighting the Nazis was a waste of time, lives & money if we are just going to go down the same road as them. What next, the Enabling Acts?

John McCain doesn't like banks, he likes Savings and Loans. I don't buy his "conversion" away from corruption.


McCain serves the gambling industry.

If you want the Enabling Acts, look to places like Wisconsin. Amazingly, in 1933, the Social Democrats fled to temporarily prevent passage of the Enabling Acts, like in Wisconsin.

Of course, the Enabling Acts were sold politically by pandering to Christians, and Hitlers big speech just before passage of the Acts was about Germany as a Christian nation where church and state would cooperate closely. It isn't clear if Fascism can even exist without Christianity.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure there is a corollary to Godwin's Law that Godwin's law will eventually be invoked by an honest-to-God Fascist.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby The Practician » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 14:59:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', '
')]My opinion, and the reason I posted it, was that the first page of this thread was almost a poster child definition of what Godwin's law is about. The Nazi reference popped up, abruptly, hugely, as if it added something substantial to the discussion;at least when PS does it, it usually has some lead in with references to Mein Kampf or whatever..

Myself, I rarely use the term "Godwin's Law" as I'm just not impressed by Nazi's and Nazi parallels to begin with. They don't kill the conversation for me, any more that someone randomly writing, "Doug has hair" in a thread. This however, was just so blatant and ridiculous that it made me laugh, so I felt compelled to comment on.


Umm...the Nazi Reference was a poster for a made for TV movie, in response to to someone saying the bill sounded like something from "a bad made for TV movie".

I'm glad you laughed, it was supposed to be funny. Nazi's are a Joke in comparison to what's brewing in world politics these days.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 15:08:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Practician', ' ')Nazi's are a Joke in comparison to what's brewing in world politics these days.

Sure?
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby The Practician » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 15:26:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Practician', ' ')Nazi's are a Joke in comparison to what's brewing in world politics these days.

Sure?


Hyperbole, for sure. Well..actually, if I broadened the scope of that comment to not just "politics" but the direction the world is headed in general, taking into account politics, economics and the environment, I stand by it. Staying on the topic of straight politics though, things aren't looking up for democracy these days, and not just in europe.

Here's a nice little article on The New Authoritarianism for anybody interested.

http://dissidentvoice.org/2011/11/the-n ... tarianism/
Last edited by The Practician on Tue 29 Nov 2011, 16:09:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby basil_hayden » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 15:32:57

I hope this bill becomes law and is turned against the treasonists, that is, Congress.

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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 17:52:40

As long as American Fascism is on the table, you can certainly find it on any online forum associated with fox.

Look at Glenn Becks website and commenters reaction to the Chris Chrisitie's "What are we paying you for?" comment regarding Obama.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/chris-c ... c#comments

Fine let's run with that for the moment because that is the fastest way to uncover psychotic ideas. OK, Obama is a feckless, rudderless, cowardly, spineless wimp. Then why are these poeple obsessed with guns and violence?

If you read the comments, again and again these people make it clear that they are determined to kill somebody, preferably in large numbers and install a Mussolini like "Great Man." Admitedly, Christie fans may be over represented in this group. But if Obama and his supporters are cowardly, unarmed, stupid, effeminate, and clueless, why are Christie's fans so obsessed with killing them?

I think it does go back to how the nazis characterized the jews - they were supposedly phyiscally and intellectually stunted to the point of literally being subhuman, filthy promiscuous drug addicted conspiring vermin (sounds like how Fox describes OWS doesn't it? Coincidence?). In addition to supposedly being weak, stupid, and degenerate, they were unarmed and allegely wrong about literally everything. So why was it such a crisis that the whole nation was supposed to mobilize and exterminate them? It's been suggested the the Nazis were fighting "the supernatural Jew," a creature that they insisted was no more imposing than an earthworm, yet more dangerous than the smallpox virus.

It seems to me that these violence prone wingnuts are obsessed with the idea of the "supernatural obama" and the "supernatural liberals" who are somehow going to parlay liberal physical, mental, and spiritual degeneracy and laziness into an iron global tyranny.

See? If you just listen to what people say, you can see pretty quickly see that a lot of these people are basically psychotic and dangerous. Hitler certainly spent 12 years telling the world exactly what he intended to do, and nobody listened.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 18:17:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '.').. the nazis characterized the jews - they were supposedly phyiscally and intellectually stunted to the point of literally being subhuman, filthy promiscuous drug addicted conspiring vermin ....


I don't think anyone else here needs a review of Nazi propaganda or feels it necessary to repeat what Nazi propaganda had to say about the Jews except you. The frequency with which you repeat the most vile lies of the Nazis is excessive.

I think you've immersed yourself in your study of Nazi propaganda rather too much.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby The Practician » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 18:21:11

A short dissertation from the 50's on the "authoritarian" personality. It's worth considering the socio economic trends in the western world since then, and the roles those trends may have played in nurturing this sort of personality disorder in the general population, providing for a rather wide base of support for the implementation of authoritarian measures if they protect or promote their interests, I.E. a willingness to submit to tyranny for the opportunity to become a minor tyrant oneself, i.e. "management" in a world where labor has no rights.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/fromm/w ... tarian.htm
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Cloud9 » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 19:32:52

Looks like they passed it. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... -custody-/

For the record, the local Tea Party objected to it.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:02:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '.').. the nazis characterized the jews - they were supposedly phyiscally and intellectually stunted to the point of literally being subhuman, filthy promiscuous drug addicted conspiring vermin ....

I don't think anyone else here needs a review of Nazi propaganda or feels it necessary to repeat what Nazi propaganda had to say about the Jews except you. The frequency with which you repeat the most vile lies of the Nazis is excessive.
I think you've immersed yourself in your study of Nazi propaganda rather too much.

No it's very important to point out that conservatives have gone back to using the same language to attack the OWS movement. They have not bothered to come up with any fresh material.

Alas, it's impossible to avoid offending the the delicate sensibilities of conservatives and the conservative demands for political correctness.

Of course, if you find it offensive, by all means go over to any Fox affiliated web site and kick some ass.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Pretorian » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:14:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')ince 1927, conservative have warned about how they and the Christians are about to be massacred and enslaved by the liberals, because anyone who is a liberal is also a Stalinist or something. And since then, right wing regimes have put millions and milllions of people into mass graves to "save" their countries from the scourges of birth control, poetry, pacifism, and the free press.



Mind me asking how many millions were put to mass graves by the left wing regimes since 1927? Why don't you line up the numbers from both sides. Go on.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby The Practician » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:33:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')ince 1927, conservative have warned about how they and the Christians are about to be massacred and enslaved by the liberals, because anyone who is a liberal is also a Stalinist or something. And since then, right wing regimes have put millions and milllions of people into mass graves to "save" their countries from the scourges of birth control, poetry, pacifism, and the free press.



Mind me asking how many millions were put to mass graves by the left wing regimes since 1927? Why don't you line up the numbers from both sides. Go on.


It's not really a question left vs. right, let alone "liberal" vs. "conservative". It is a question of authoritarian vs. democratic. The rest is smoke and mirrors.

When the citizens of a democracy loose the the power to exert collective control over the policies of their nation/state through the apparatus of government, and are therefore unable to check the concentration of power among an elite, that so-called democracy is in big, big trouble.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 20:49:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')ince 1927, conservative have warned about how they and the Christians are about to be massacred and enslaved by the liberals, because anyone who is a liberal is also a Stalinist or something. And since then, right wing regimes have put millions and milllions of people into mass graves to "save" their countries from the scourges of birth control, poetry, pacifism, and the free press.

Mind me asking how many millions were put to mass graves by the left wing regimes since 1927? Why don't you line up the numbers from both sides. Go on.

Yes I know, then we get the people who define everyone who ever did anything bad as "the left." Like I said, for some folks, Stalin was "liberal," and liberals are Stalinists, so you'd better get them before they get you. Given that all evil is "the left," they can claim moral purity if not an actual moral imperative to preemptively massacre "the left," (pretty much everyone else). Their idea of a violent us-against-the-rest-of-the-world outlook is what defines a good person.

If you want to see people who clearly relish the idea of killing their neighbors, that would be the right wingers who claim all evil is by definition "the left." Covieniently for them, right wing conspiracy theories practically demand violence. Where we are right now is that people are obsessed with the idea that the liberals or atheists are about to drag them from their beds and cut their throats on the front lawn unless they are ready to fill the minvan with gold commemorative coins and MREs and drive randomly into the mountains, or else their children will be taken to Obama's reeducation camps
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 21:05:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The Practician', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'S')ince 1927, conservative have warned about how they and the Christians are about to be massacred and enslaved by the liberals, because anyone who is a liberal is also a Stalinist or something. And since then, right wing regimes have put millions and milllions of people into mass graves to "save" their countries from the scourges of birth control, poetry, pacifism, and the free press.

Mind me asking how many millions were put to mass graves by the left wing regimes since 1927? Why don't you line up the numbers from both sides. Go on.

It's not really a question left vs. right, let alone "liberal" vs. "conservative". It is a question of authoritarian vs. democratic. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
When the citizens of a democracy loose the the power to exert collective control over the policies of their nation/state through the apparatus of government, and are therefore unable to check the concentration of power among an elite, that so-called democracy is in big, big trouble.

Thanks for saying that.

When you actually talk about tyrannical regimes, they become similar forms of authoritarianism. Communist authoritarianism has fundamental philosophical differences from Fascism, but they oppress people in similar ways, they are both anti-intellectual, and ultimately the same sort of people end up charge by creating similar personality cults.

Were there people who started as leftists who became Stalinists? Sure there were. Is there anyone using a gut level Stalinist propaganda appeal anywhere in the world today? Is there a stalinist movement in the US? I really doubt.

Is there an active world wide movement of Fascists? Ummmm, yeah, they are loud and proud. Has the gut level propaganda become part of the mainstream? Sure! Can you get a steady barrage of their talking points from "mainstream" media? Absolutely.

Stalinists are not a danger to America. Fascism definitely is, and it'll be wrapped in flag and carrying that Bible. We are already deep into their cult of religion, blood, death, fertility, paranoia, and xenophobia. And how to do they take power? By "saving" the country from the feeble but supernaturally destructive liberal.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Ibon » Tue 29 Nov 2011, 22:02:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'I')bon on the OWS thread suggests conversational restraint. Hum? Personally I don't buy it. There is a meme out there held by %44.5 of the population (the other half are tea baggers) that moves and mutates very quickly now. No one person is worth tracking or monitoring--except in person at events. We should be able to blather here with impunity.



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') AgentR11 wrote


This is the perfect example of a slippery slope; but the problem is, we've been sliding down it for nearly two decades. We are now long past the point of no return.

There's really no excuse to capture anyone within the US and not subject them to criminal p


Further to my comment on the OWS thread about restraint, I feel it is important that we are vigilant and that we think beyond the moment. Pstarr is right about the moment today, now in 2011. But we must remember that everything is backed up and archived on these forums and similar ones. So let's take a moment from history and remember the witch hunts during the McCarthyism when poets, authors, academics etc., where brought before tribunals accused of being communists. At that time people were investigated for their memberships and affiliations up to 15-20 years earlier in an attempt to prove communist alliances.

Now let's imagine civil unrest escalating and keeping in mind the slippery slope AgentR11 mentions, and then you get a McCarthyism style witch hunt in 5-10 years from now looking into peoples past to investigate their sympathies with subversive and protest movements, and you can see how the search can reach all the way back to even such innocuous forums as peakoil.com.

Project the slippery slope forward and mix in enough civil unrest and authoritative response and the restraint I am calling for is far more prudent than paranoid.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Cog » Wed 30 Nov 2011, 00:24:32

I welcome our new future overlords five years hence. Whether you be left-wing or right wing overlords, let me be your guide in rooting out the conspirators and plotters.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Oakley » Wed 30 Nov 2011, 00:52:01

Always look on the bright side of peak oil and deteriorating EROEI.

Surely the lack of energy to fuel industrial economies will ultimately bring down political entities like the federal government. The lack of energy will force localization and destroy centralization. The federal government is already bankrupt, and cannot come even close to meeting its obligations whether they are the formal bonded debts or the retirement and insurance programs embodied in Social Security and Medicare, and I remind you that it was bankruptcy that forced the dissolution of the counterpart of the US, i.e., the Soviet Union back in the 1990's.

As the developing depression deepens, the federal government will be pushed further against the financial wall, and the resentment toward it will intensify. Already there is widespread contempt and even hatred for those who occupy the seats of power and for those corporate powers that pull their strings. While the proximate cause of the current depression seems to be the faulty monetary system centered on the Federal Reserve Bank which creates the boom/bust cycle, the most probably underlying cause is the maturation of the oil industry (end of cheap oil and failure of production to expand).

How effective do you think the tyrants in Washington, DC will be as the energy to support them dries up? The control structure and military are based on electronics, and they will be worthless without electricity. If Richard Duncan is correct and the electric grid will fail early in the oil decline, then we may be within 10 to 20 years of not having electricity. And, if we fall into civil war or revolution, you can bet that the countless unprotected transmission lines and coal delivering rail lines will be targets.

So by the time the goons in Washington, DC decide to use their new usurpation of power against a significant number of American dissidents, it will likely be too late in their own disintegration to save them from the fate of the countless number of regimes that have in the past lost the support of the citizenry.
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Wed 30 Nov 2011, 01:14:43

Anyone who wants to see an unusually explicit thread of comments about "hunting down liberals," how Christians must be prepared to violently resist the liberal conspiracy, assassinations, and armed repression of OWS, check out Beck's site here for some seriously disturbing wankery.

I hope to God each of these people is on a government watch list.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/do-you- ... gunmaking/
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Re: Indefinite Military Detention in Your Town

Unread postby Cog » Wed 30 Nov 2011, 01:23:29

Emperor Beck is not amused by your disloyalty.
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