How do you decide what the truth is

by **elgayna** » Mon 04 Oct 2004, 15:37:07

I get the point Pogma is making but it could apply to any group, not just environmentalists. Statistics are always open to interpretation, people can always exagerate (can't spell, sorry, I'm not English). From that viewpoint surely truth is subjective.

by **smiley** » Mon 04 Oct 2004, 16:38:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') get the point Pogma is making but it could apply to any group, not just environmentalists. Statistics are always open to interpretation, people can always exagerate (can't spell, sorry, I'm not English). From that viewpoint surely truth is subjective.

by **Pogma** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 01:22:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elgayna', 'I') get the point Pogma is making but it could apply to any group, not just environmentalists. Statistics are always open to interpretation, people can always exagerate (can't spell, sorry, I'm not English). From that viewpoint surely truth is subjective.

by **Matrim** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 03:08:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are also gross exaggerations, such as forests depleted by 20xx without any data to support it.
I think that members of greenpeace should just come out and say..."look I don't want to work, I just can't stand a honest days work".

You'll notice them chaining themselves to trees, protesting the development of Unit complexes, all the while collecting the dole from those building the units.

by **cthulhu** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 06:42:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elgayna', ''')There are no "facts". There is only information in a slice of time.'

My limited brainpower worked that one out as well, but not everyone seems to agree LOL

Bit ironic that my question itself was open to interpretation, I meant to ask how do YOU decide what the truth is. I already decided that there is no such thing as 'the truth' for myself, but wondered how other people felt.

by **Pogma** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 09:01:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Matrim', '[')
Well, I don't know what the actual numbers are but I know that the pictures of where the rainforests used to be are pretty ugly. And while I don't know EXACTLY how quickly it's happening I'm pretty sure it's fast.

by **Matrim** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 12:51:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow listen, here's how it works.....you or any envirocrazed group you represent posts details of an expected depletion date, you then back that up with the maths, IOW you show evidence of a potential depletion date rather than use PHOTOGRAPHS of LOGGING as emotional blackmail to suit your lazy agenda, the agenda of unemployment and guilt transfer.

by **Matrim** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 12:58:31

P.S. sorry for ruining your thread Elgayna.

On the matter of truth, I think it's just a matter of discernment. Truth is out there, sometimes it's just hard to recognize. The idea is to question everything, try to come at each subject from all angles. It can be tough, but in the end you can only believe what you feel is right.

One lesson I've learned is that if something doesn't feel right, it probably isn't.

Anyway thats my 2 pennies, figured I should say something on-topic :oops:

by **Pogma** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 13:22:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Matrim', '[')
Allright dipshit (guess I gotta send this to the HoF) enough. Guess what? I don't give a fuck how successful you are. I work 3 jobs to support myself and my daughter and the last thing I need is some piece of shit who thinks he knows me, telling me what my "agenda" is. You don't know shit.

by **Matrim** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 14:25:03

Ok Pogma, let me explain something to you.

You have presumed correctly that I don't really like you, but it has nothing to do with your "success". For one thing I have no idea if you actually are successful. Subsequently, you also have no idea how successful I am. I'm not going to go into every detail of my life just for you. What I will say is that yes I have looked into local real estate, and in fact I'm opening up a store in a couple of months. Again I state, you don't know shit. Have fun in your office job, taking shit from your boss though, I hope you feel successful. I'll work for myself thanks.

And you can call me lazy all you want, but I probably work harder than you do, and I still have fun to.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'i')t's not my fault that YOU decided to go into debt on non-appreciating assets, or worse still, spent it all on toxic substances.

by **Pogma** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 14:52:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Matrim', '
')When you're stating the obvious direct facts aren't needed. I could find them, but you wouldn't listen. I think it's pretty obvious that our forests ARE being depleted. To deny that this IS happening is just ignorant. If you want to claim that the supposed rate of depletion is bogus, fine. You may be right, I don't really know (I have a hunch you ARE right about that) But deny that it's happening at all?? Thats just stupid.

by **smiley** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 15:42:09

Ok you two cut it out. If you want to start a flame war do it in the hall of flames.

I am not denying that we're messing up the planet. And the environmental organizations have every right to say so. However it does matter how you bring that message. Right now I've got the feeling that the environmental organizations think that their cause is so important everything is allowed, even manipulation of the truth.

It is good to show a picture of a deforestated area. People should know what the effects of deforestation are and it is a truth. The proof is there for everyone to see.

On the other hand I also saw a story on a site about CO2 and global warming. Accompanying the article was a picture of the cooling towers a nuclear powerplant. Of course the billowing steam from the towers looks pretty impressive, but it has nothing to do with CO2. In other words placing the picture there is manipulation of the truth.

My final objection against many of these organizations is the commercialisation of activism. Most people are not aware that Greenpeace is a company. Although the lower echelons consist of volunteers, the higher levels are not only payed, but payed more when Greenpeace becomes more successful.

The late David McTaggart the former CEO became a multi-millionaire by running greenpeace. Mending the truth suddenly becomes profitable when more people join. One has to wonder where the environment fits in.

This becomes apparent when talking about personal issues. Right now the message appears to be: send us your money, and we'll teach those big bad companies.

However we all have a responsibility to the environment. We all have a responsibility to reduce our waste, our energy usage, our footprint on the planet. However this message does not go down well with the general public and might cost them donations. Therefore companies like Greenpeace are very careful not to criticize the general public on their behavior.

Principals are thus exchanged for marketing strategies.

by **elgayna** » Tue 05 Oct 2004, 16:36:48

oh well.....

I was only asking a question.... Fun to see a useless fight
and I am really glad for any of you that feel succesfull etc, because I myself do not. But hey, that comes with being ambitious. LOL

I will never find out the truth of what's really going on in this world and why. Neither will any of you.

by **Matrim** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 11:27:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')URELY GREENPEACE HAS COMPLIED THE DATA....WHERE IT IS??

by **Pogma** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 12:01:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', 'O')k you two cut it out. If you want to start a flame war do it in the hall of flames.

I am not denying that we're messing up the planet. And the environmental organizations have every right to say so. However it does matter how you bring that message. Right now I've got the feeling that the environmental organizations think that their cause is so important everything is allowed, even manipulation of the truth.

.

by **Pogma** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 12:04:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Matrim', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')You want proof? Go to south america. I'm to "lazy" to look the numbers up.

Peaceout

by **Pogma** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 12:07:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('elgayna', 'o')h well.....

I will never find out the truth of what's really going on in this world and why. Neither will any of you.

by **backstop** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 12:20:54

I'm wondering how many on this thread can agree that the best way to deal with drizzle is to ignore it and carry on with the work ?

Elgayna - the truth we can know is relative truth so called. It reflects the extent of the info we have and the degree of our integration and comprehension of that info.

No one can give you absolute truth: like everyone else you just have to make your own judgements form the info you gather. As you test them against new info they evolve and with luck will give you a sound basis for deciding how you want to contribute to resolving this mess.

So have some faith in your own judgements !

regards,

Backstop

by **Pogma** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 13:25:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('backstop', 'I')'m wondering how many on this thread can agree that the best way to deal with drizzle is to ignore it and carry on with the work ?

by **smiley** » Wed 06 Oct 2004, 16:03:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')irstly smiley, I'm not flaming anyone, I'm just telling it like it is.
Secondly, if you don't have the DATA, how do you what state the planet's in{other than by pavlovian brainwashing}..?

How do you decide what the truth is

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