Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

High Oil prices: Recriminations, etc

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
Post a reply

Re: It has begun

Unread postby mididoctors » Sun 06 May 2007, 06:21:04

I found the whole thrust to the train of thought in the article disturbing.

Boris
London
User avatar
mididoctors
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 578
Joined: Mon 30 Aug 2004, 03:00:00
Location: London
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby Bas » Sun 06 May 2007, 06:34:25

I don't think any European has ever made the case that a lack of taxing gasoline in the US pushes up prices in Europe through increased demand over there, but I guess you could..... ; )
Bas
 
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby Gazzatrone » Sun 06 May 2007, 10:08:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mididoctors', 'I') found the whole thrust to the train of thought in the article disturbing.

Boris
London


In so much is that they writer seems completely oblivious to P.O. The tag line "Chavez-style oil nationalism is endangering world economic growth"? This alone shows a complete ignorance of the basic principle of sustainable growth based on a a finite resource. Does the write even seem aware of the problem? He mentions the drop in production but doesn't seem to think that this will have any bearing on the whole way of life oil has supported.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('from the article', 'T')he implications for the world economy are potentially catastrophic. The world is not running out of oil, but it will run out of production capacity if the national companies, the new rule makers in this business, don't invest.


His mention of falling production numerous times in the article but not managing to connect the dots is staggering, which ultimately leads him to this conclusion. Someone should really point out the concept of Peak Oil to him.

The scariest thing is it seems this guys reason-detre is to inform governments about energy issues.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('end of artcile', 'W')est is chairman of PFC Energy, a Washington, D.C.-based adviser to governments and international energy companies.
THE FUTURE IS HISTORY!
User avatar
Gazzatrone
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 581
Joined: Mon 07 Nov 2005, 04:00:00
Location: London, UK
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 06 May 2007, 11:44:01

vision-master said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hey seem interested to find out what's really going on (average age is 50's or 60's). I'm filling em in.

More than I can say for the younger generation. They just cut me off at the knees.


Keep working on it vision, if you can teach one he will teach two and you have a geometric progression in progress. Your approach, that is education, is far superior to the pundit snobbery that we often find here, pundits who should know that what we really understand about human behavioral patterns can be written on the back of a postage stamp with a lumber crayon. But, they persist in their flights of esoteric self delusion.

As to the younger generation, they have been stupid, stubborn and narcissistic for about, oh, 800,000 years. They’ll come along, they don’t lead and never have. They just balk, bitch, complain and then fall in line.
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: VA USA
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby joewp » Sun 06 May 2007, 12:50:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'H')ere's another nice scapegoating article from msnbc....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18505675/site/newsweek/

Incompetent Venezuelans fouling things up so we can't get their oil!!


I find this quote from that article curious:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ountries with large resources have an obligation to the world economy to develop their oil, not just cash checks.


What makes him think that? Perhaps those countries would prefer to produce their oil at a slower rate to make it laster longer, and only use it for their own people. Isn't that their right? Mr. West sounds like a greedy little kid who wants a larger share of everybody's pie than they got. Broaching this subject at a neighborhood party yesterday, I got responses like "We'll have to take it if they won't sell it to us" and "They have to sell it to us, how else are we going to get to work?".

I'm starting to get scared living in suburbia.
Joe P. joeparente.com
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
User avatar
joewp
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 2054
Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2005, 03:00:00
Location: Keeping dry in South Florida
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby Twilight » Sun 06 May 2007, 13:06:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joewp', 'I') find this quote from that article curious:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ountries with large resources have an obligation to the world economy to develop their oil, not just cash checks.


It is the classic neoliberal position, that the ability to pay for a commodity constitutes a legally and militarily defensible claim to ownership of that commodity. Ability to pay trumps willingness to sell, in the court of international opinion. In fact, in court of law.

There will be sanctions, destabilisation and wars fought over this.

The attitude is contemptible and reminiscent of colonialism.

But these are the new terms of the debate. We must bear this in mind.
Twilight
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 3027
Joined: Fri 02 Mar 2007, 04:00:00
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 06 May 2007, 13:09:54

joewp said:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m starting to get scared living in suburbia.


Let us know when you bolt. I can use the data point!
User avatar
shortonoil
False ETP Prophet
False ETP Prophet
 
Posts: 7132
Joined: Thu 02 Dec 2004, 04:00:00
Location: VA USA
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby Eli » Sun 06 May 2007, 14:42:40

Well these articles and the point of view expressed are sad. It is true that what these nations are doing is anti-globalization and free market, but that is not a bad thing for the nations who own the resource.
That is the whole point of the nation state to provide benefits for their own citizenry.

It boggles the mind of these globalization zealots that any nation would want to take a competitive advantage over their own resources.

This just PO being digested through the mind of the globalists free market faithful. Remember this is the new idea that is supposed to save us all.
User avatar
Eli
Intermediate Crude
Intermediate Crude
 
Posts: 3709
Joined: Sat 18 Jun 2005, 03:00:00
Location: In a van down by the river
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby threadbear » Sun 06 May 2007, 15:53:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Eli', 'W')ell these articles and the point of view expressed are sad. It is true that what these nations are doing is anti-globalization and free market, but that is not a bad thing for the nations who own the resource.
That is the whole point of the nation state to provide benefits for their own citizenry.

It boggles the mind of these globalization zealots that any nation would want to take a competitive advantage over their own resources.

This just PO being digested through the mind of the globalists free market faithful. Remember this is the new idea that is supposed to save us all.


Free market globalists are in thrall to a religion, a blood cult. They don't care how many of the middle and poverty class are sacrificied on the altars of their macro-economic policies and proxy wars. They are as bad or worse than the most rigid raving Communist idealogues.

The neo-cons make Stalin look like a cream puff. The global elites, represented by British imperialists and other European colonizers have been responsible for just as much death and destruction. Rather than retreating, they have simply handed over the keys to the kingdom to the US, who has pushed for open markets. For every economic success story that raises someone from the poverty or middle class into the upper class, in the third world, there are 2 who retreat further into misery and poverty, in this form of economy.

The next few years Americans will see a pattern that has played out time and time again in "developing" nations, brought right back home to the US. If you want to see what the future will bring, look at what happened to Argentina and Russia under the IMF, in the eighties and nineties.

Seeing as the American treasury has controlling interest of the IMF, the question becomes--who will bail out America?

Hyper inflationary scenario, followed by economic collapse, followed by sky high interest rates and DECADES of poverty, for most. The demand destruction will disguise peak oil, but increasing cost (relative to everything else) of energy will put a ceiling on any kind of growth, forever.

The mainstream media will partially disguise the fact, by illuminating those who climb out of poverty while ignoring or deemphasizing the many more who retreat further into it.

Newscasts pan the vertical growth of "emerging" city's commercial zones, with their cameras, focussing on the upper tiers of office complexes and ritzy apartment complexes. They ignore the lateral progression of shantytowns crawling outward away from the city. Perfect metaphor.
User avatar
threadbear
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 7577
Joined: Sat 22 Jan 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: It has begun

Unread postby nero » Sun 06 May 2007, 16:35:20

So if I understand America's mental state, Canada better not try too hard to meet their Kyoto limits because that might hurt the tar sands production.

Oh, right we're not. Now everything makes sense.
Biofuels: The "What else we got to burn?" answer to peak oil.
User avatar
nero
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1433
Joined: Sat 22 May 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Top
Previous
Post a reply

Return to Peak Oil Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron