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Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Discuss research and forecasts regarding hydrocarbon depletion.

Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 29 Jul 2014, 17:02:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')I think the perception is generally similar to Plant's (by those that pay enough attention to perceive anything about it) that the US LTO boom is going to change everything


I never said that. I wish you wouldn't attribute your ideas to me.

In my posts above I pointed out that the US LTO boom has changed things NOW. The predictions that global oil production would peak in 2005 have proven to be wrong. US LTO, along with other unconventional oil, is the reason why.

The only prediction about the future that I'm willing to make is that fracking and horizontal drilling is going to spread from the USA to other countries. We're going to see tight oil from Argentina, Russia, the UK, the EU, Africa, etc. etc.

As to whether your suggestion that this will "change everything" is correct, I frankly think you are completely wrong. I think at best tight oil will delay the oil production peak, and help slow the rate at which oil production falls after the peak.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Pops » Tue 29 Jul 2014, 17:28:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I') wish you wouldn't attribute your ideas to me.
...
As to whether your suggestion that this will "change everything" is correct, I frankly think you are completely wrong.

You have a strange way of debating, reminds my of the grade school rhyme...

..."I'm rubber and you're glue, what you say bounces off me and sticks to you!"

Makes it hard to understand your point when you can't seem to remember who is arguing what point, LOL

As to your prediction that H. drilling and frac'g will become widespread outside the US, it isn't even widespread in the US. IIRC only about 6 of 30-something possible shale plays are doing much.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Plantagenet » Tue 29 Jul 2014, 19:20:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '
')As to your prediction that H. drilling and frac'g will become widespread outside the US, it isn't even widespread in the US. IIRC only about 6 of 30-something possible shale plays are doing much.


Obviously the best prospects get done first. So far we've got THREE major fracking booms going on right now in the USA----in the Bakken, in the Eagle Ford, and in the Permian Basin----.

And fracking and horizontal drilling actually ARE beginning to be utilized overseas even as we discuss this ---Exxon and Chevron are drilling and fracking right now at Vaca Muere in Argentina. Is there really any doubt in your mind that horizontal drilling and fracking will someday be used in other areas around the world?

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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Plantagenet » Wed 30 Jul 2014, 01:36:49

If Pops is right and there are six places in the USA with fracking/horizontal drilling for LTO going on, then having three of them turn out to be giant multi-billion barrel oil fields now producing together about 3.6 million bbls of oil per day really isn't too bad.

Why not admit the facts? Drill baby drill and frack baby frack has been pretty darn successful. By some accounts oil production in the USA has now grown to the point that the USA is approaching being the largest oil producing nation in the world.

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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby westexas » Wed 30 Jul 2014, 07:07:44

My tight/shale comments:

Tight/Shale Plays to the Rescue?

The conventional wisdom is that increased production from North American and global tight/shale plays will power the globe to a virtually perpetual rate of increase in global oil and gas production.

However, while the strong rebound in US oil and gas production has been very impressive—and critically important to the US economy–it’s interesting to look at some regional declines in US oil and gas production, e.g., marketed Louisiana natural gas production (the EIA doesn’t have dry processed data by state).

According to the EIA, the observed simple percentage decline in Louisiana’s annual natural gas production from 2012 to 2013 was 20%. This would be the net change in production, after new wells were added. The gross decline rate (from existing wells in 2012) would be even higher. This puts a recent Citi Research estimate in perspective.

Citi estimates that the gross underlying decline rate for overall US natural gas production is about 24%/year. This would be the simple percentage change in annual production if no new sources of gas were put on line in the US. In round numbers, this requires the US to add about 16 BCF/day of new gas production every year, just to maintain about 66 BCF/day of dry processed natural gas production. To put 16 BCF/day in perspective, dry processed natural gas production from all of Texas was probably at about 18 BCF/day in 2013.

Based on the Citi report, the US would have to replace 100% of current natural gas production in about four years, just to maintain a dry processed gas production rate of 66 BCF/day (24 TCF/year) for four years.

Or, based on the Citi report, the US has to replace the productive equivalent of all of the 2012 dry natural gas production from the Middle East, in a little over three years (3.3 years), in order to maintain a dry production rate of 24 TCF/year. Over a 10 year period, we would need to put on line three times the 2012 production rate from the Middle East, in order to maintain current production for 10 years.

On the oil side, according to the EIA, the observed 10 year exponential rate of decline in Alaska’s annual Crude + Condensate (C+C) production from 2003 to 2013 was 6.5%/year. This would be the net change in production per year, after new wells were added. The gross decline rate from existing wells would be even higher.

If we assume a probably conservative gross decline rate of 10%/year from existing US C+C production, in order to just maintain current production for 10 years, we would have to replace the productive equivalent of every oil field in the US over the next 10 years–the productive equivalent of every oil well from the Gulf of Mexico to the Eagle Ford to the Permian Basin to the Bakken to Alaska.

Of course, the general consensus is that the tight/shale revolution will spread around the world, and it’s certainly possible, but note that in 2013, while overall Bakken Play production was still increasing, the average Bakken oil well produced a little over 100 bpd, while the median production rate was less than 100 bpd, with a very high per well decline rate. Furthermore, this does not take into account wells that have already been plugged and abandoned. I have a hard time believing that per well production rates like this will work in much higher operating cost areas around the world.

In addition, as the Monterey Shale Play case history shows (the EIA reduced their estimate of possible recoverable reserves by 95%), not all US shale plays will be commercially productive in meaningful quantities, and most commercial plays in the US tend to be gas prone.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Pops » Wed 30 Jul 2014, 08:19:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')s there really any doubt in your mind that horizontal drilling and fracking will someday be used in other areas around the world?

Horizontal drilling is the real technological marvel. I'm sure there will never be a return to vertical drilling, mainly because we're running out of nice, tidy, concentrated, pressurized pools of oil. A vertical well makes contact with a thin layer of oil bearing rock for only the thickness of the layer while a H. well can follow that layer for miles in contact with the oil all the way.
more on h. drilling

Image


But fracking isn't a feature, it is a requirement. The proppants (sand) in frac fluid are necessary for horizontal drilling and do several things but first and foremost they prop open the sides of a horizontal wellbore that would be crushed tight otherwise. A horizontal well is subject to the same pressure from the sides that a vertical well is but also to the weight of all the rock above - there is no rock "above" a vertical hole. That vertical weight can be several times as large as the lateral pressure. Not only that but the pressure right at the wellbore is magnified as all that weight "transferred" around the hole - just like an archway in a rock wall. Without proppants injected under high pressure, the increased pressure right at the side of the bore closes up the pores in the rock adjacent to the horizontal well and nothing flows.
more on frac'g and h. drilling at TOD


But there's more. Shales are compressed mud, as they were compressed they developed vertical fractures. Vertical wells obviously can only cross a limited number of those fractures but horizontal wells can cross many. Horizontal wells then take advantage of the natural fracturing in the shale.

Image


But then here is the thing, a horizontal well uses the natural fractures (propped open by frac fluid proppants) but what happens if there are too many natural fractures and the frac fluid escapes? Or the extractable 'oils" themselves have already escaped? Or what if there aren't enough natural fractures? Or the oil bearing layer has been folded too tightly by tectonic forces to follow? And, or, the target layer is interrupted by a more porous layer like sandstone? Or what if all the lightweight, fracable "oil" that was created in the layer has already migrated, leaving behind the heavier fractions that just are too big or too sticky to flow?


That is the thing overlooked. People see a map of shale like was posted earlier and think simply because it is shale that is the right age and was at the right depth and had the right dinosaurs tromping around it once that the fracers will just go in there and frac it and miraculously set all that trapped oil free. But it doesn't work that way, there are just a narrow set of conditions that make it work - I think that the fact all those other shale plays aren't producing much is proof. All those other shales aren't Bakkens and never will be, IMO.

I'm not going to say I was on the verge of becoming a hor. drilling, hydrofracing booster before the EIA said "Never Mind" on the Monterey. In fact, I "think" the economics are shaky and free government money looking for a home is what may be keeping lots of LTO afloat right now. But the fact that the EIA and USGS hired people who make money from the business to draw all those pretty maps without any real investigation makes me much more skeptical.

Didn't the mortgage scams teach us that "independent" guarantees (paid for by industry) are nothing more than PR Fluffing?

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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby JV153 » Wed 30 Jul 2014, 14:41:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Drill baby drill and frack baby frack has been pretty darn successful.

Prick. Oh, yeah.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I')f Pops is right and there are six places in the USA with fracking/horizontal drilling for LTO going on, then having three of them turn out to be giant multi-billion barrel oil fields now producing together about 3.6 million bbls of oil per day really isn't too bad.

Why not admit the facts? By some accounts oil production in the USA has now grown to the point that the USA is approaching being the largest oil producing nation in the world.
]


Well, the USA has been one of the largest oil producing nations for a long time. YAY. :roll: :lol:
Oh, the United States has been the one of the largest oil producing nations for a long time. So.. is now having
to resort to drilling very deep and drilling a lot of new wells each with a nice 20 hp suction pump operating continuously to pump up oil along with 5 million gallons of sand and water to frac each well requiring a fleet of trucks that use diesel. There are near 70,000 light tight shale oil wells and that number will have to treble in a few years to hold up or slightly increase oil production.
So it's a flash in the pan lasting maybe 7-9 years at which point US oil production will be going down again.
You're right though, it seems thats the best there is - be happy with what you've got.

http://www.oxfordenergy.org/wpcms/wp-co ... nities.pdf

Other than that it seems the shale gas boom is more impressive than the shale oil boom but I still think potential reserves of shale gas are far less than is hyped.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby westexas » Wed 30 Jul 2014, 15:17:11

A slight clarification. The 15% number refers to the latest annual (2013) RRC data for Texas condensate (basically natural gasoline) as a percentage of Texas Crude + Condensate (C+C). Based on EIA (C+C) versus RRC data (crude only) for Texas, it looks like the Condensate/(C+C) ratio was about 3% in the early Eighties (and probably 3% around the so far peak in 1972).

Natural gas liquids (NGL's) would most commonly be defined as ethane, propane, butane (and related liquids).

My point about global production is that I suspect that actual global crude oil production (45 and lower API gravity crude oil) probably peaked in 2005, while global natural gas production, and related liquids--condensate and NGL's--have so far continued to increase.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 31 Jul 2014, 13:16:57

Suggestions that all the oil shale will be fracked out and used up in a few years are just silly.

For instance, Oilcos are just now ramping up spending for drilling, fracking, etc in the Wolfcamp Shale of the Permian to ca. 12 billion next year, getting close to the ca. 14 billion spent each year in the Bakken

But the Wolfcamp is far far larger then the Bakken. The total recoverable oil in the Wolfcamp is estimated at 50-100 BILLION barrels, giving it a good shot to be even bigger then Ghawar with its 60 BIllION barrels of recoverable oil---the largest previously largest known oilfield.

Wolfcamp Shale is a world class play---its as big or bigger than Ghawar

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Wolfcamp Shale, Texas is comparable in size to Ghawar, KSA
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby JV153 » Thu 31 Jul 2014, 16:15:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')uggestions that all the oil shale will be fracked out and used up in a few years are just silly.

Wolfcamp Shale is a world class play---its as big or bigger than Ghawar

Wolfcamp Shale, Texas is comparable in size to Ghawar, KSA


Yes, Plantagenet- Wolfcamp will put Ghawar in its place.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby JV153 » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 12:34:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', ' ')

tight oil from Russia



Russia was already fracing a while ago but without slickwater, but there are some tax issues that seem to prevent full use of EOR methods. Even then, rigs operating outside of the US is a small fraction of rigs operating in the US.

http://www.rogtecmagazine.com/blog/tag/ ... racturing/
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/ ... _frac.html
http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/a ... ure-wells/

Canada was using hydraulic fracturing (for sandstone gas) in the 1970's, same in Germany,
shale and oil gas fracing using the US style (slickwater, below 3000 meters) is banned in Germany and France has a more extensive ban.
Last edited by JV153 on Fri 01 Aug 2014, 13:05:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hamilton The Changing Face of World Oil Markets

Unread postby Pops » Fri 01 Aug 2014, 12:50:06

This story was kind of hard to find again after I stumbled across it the first time, try searching on "fracing and exports" and not getting a stampede of rainbow farting unicorns, LOL

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') European export ban on advanced oil technologies to Russia could hinder Moscow’s attempts to drill in the Arctic Ocean. It could also harm the businesses of global energy firms that are angling to help Russia tap its offshore reserves, analysts say.

The embargo is one of a slate of economic sanctions that European Union and United States leaders agreed on this week. Europe’s measures, approved on Tuesday, target Russia’s energy, financial and military sectors and follow more modest sanctions from last week, which included visa bans and asset freezes for Russian individuals considered responsible for the country’s escalating intervention in Ukraine.

European officials had previously shied away from stringent sanctions that would damage the Russian economy, worried that a fallout with Moscow would lead to soaring natural gas costs and batter European economies. But the July 17 downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 over territory held by pro-Russian separatists -- and Vladimir Putin’s refusal to scale back support for rebels -- has elevated the international pressure to take action.

The oil technology ban targets the two sectors Russia wants to develop most: deep-water and artic drilling, and shale exploration. Both areas are crucial for replacing declining output at Siberia’s on-land oilfields and ensuring the government a steady stream of cash. (Russia gets about half of its fiscal revenues from oil and gas.) Yet both methods are far more expensive and technically challenging than conventional oil drilling, and the Russian energy industry relies heavily on Western aid and expertise to carry out projects.

http://www.ibtimes.com/new-russia-sanct ... an-1642528
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