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Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby AAA » Thu 21 May 2009, 18:45:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'B')orrowing up to $25,000 isn't saving, it's borrowing, and no I'm not kidding. :) I still don't see how something that only applies to borrowers is a strike against savers. Granted, it could be a strike against the thrifty, who cycled money through cards in order to get the benefits, but credit card use by definition is borrowing, not saving, so I don't see how it impacts bonafide savers.


Do you know anyone who is 100% a saver? It doesn't exist. People need to spend money on shelter, food, etc...

I save more than half of my income but use a credit card for every single purchase no matter how large or how small. Practically the only thing I haven't bought with a credit card is my house and car.
How can Ludi spend 8-10 hrs/day on the internet and claim to be homesteading???
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby yesplease » Thu 21 May 2009, 19:02:54

My family pretty much all savings AFAIK, but I suppose we're a minority. Anyway, it's still inaccurate, because someone borrowing money be definition isn't saving, they're borrowing. Even if they save a bit, when they borrow, from a credit card, and the change hits 'em, then they're borrowing, not saving.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby AAA » Thu 21 May 2009, 19:08:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'M')y family pretty much all savings AFAIK, but I suppose we're a minority.


So your family doesn't spend ANY money??? What is your age?
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby yesplease » Thu 21 May 2009, 19:13:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'M')y family pretty much all savings AFAIK, but I suppose we're a minority.
So your family doesn't spend ANY money??? What is your age?
Of course we spend money, it's not like merchants only take credit cards.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby Schmuto » Thu 21 May 2009, 19:16:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', 'A') discount for cash has been forbidden by the CC companies for a long time.


That's incorrect. Under the Visa and Mastercard merchant services agreements you are allowed to give cash discounts and you are allowed to charge a surcharge for debit cards. What you are not allowed to do is charge a surcharge for credit cards.

Help me out here.

What's the difference between . . .
1. Giving a discount for cash
and
2. Charging a surcharge for credit?



$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SPG', 'U')nfortunately Visa and Mastercard are sometimes fairly lax about enforcing the merchant services agreement. There is a chain of gas stations around here that charges a credit card service charge routinely and has for several years. I keep meaning to file a formal complaint with Visa, but then I get lazy and put it off.


1. How sad that you side with Visa and not the local guy.
2. He's not adding a surcharge for your credit card, he's giving a cash discount.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby AAA » Thu 21 May 2009, 19:18:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'M')y family pretty much all savings AFAIK, but I suppose we're a minority.
So your family doesn't spend ANY money??? What is your age?
Of course we spend money, it's not like merchants only take credit cards.


So whats the difference between using cash and using a credit card.

You pay daily. I pay monthly and I draw interest while my money sits in the bank for those 30 days.

So technically I am saving more money than you because I am getting 30 days interest on mine. Right?
How can Ludi spend 8-10 hrs/day on the internet and claim to be homesteading???
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby smallpoxgirl » Thu 21 May 2009, 20:57:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schmuto', 'A') discount for cash has been forbidden by the CC companies for a long time.


That's incorrect. Under the Visa and Mastercard merchant services agreements you are allowed to give cash discounts and you are allowed to charge a surcharge for debit cards. What you are not allowed to do is charge a surcharge for credit cards.

Help me out here.

What's the difference between . . .
1. Giving a discount for cash
and
2. Charging a surcharge for credit?


Elementary my dear Watson. The big sign say $2.599 per gallon. If they charge you less than that, it's a discount. If they charge you more than that, it's a surcharge.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1'). How sad that you side with Visa and not the local guy.

First off, it's a chain of like 20 gas stations. It's not some mom and pop outfit. Secondly, every business in the world practically has to abide by the same agreement. It pisses me off that some yahoo has decided that he's special and the rules don't apply to him. If I gotta follow the rules and every other business person has to follow the rules, then AM/PM should darn well follow the rules too. Otherwise he's unfairly competing with other local businesses, and it's a big chunk of money. If you think about how many credit card transactions they do in 20 stores in a day and then multiply that by $0.65 each, it's undoubtedly thousands of dollars a day. There might be a juicy class action suit in there, although I don't know the implications of trying to sue someone for abrogating an agreement with a third party.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby yesplease » Thu 21 May 2009, 21:16:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'S')o whats the difference between using cash and using a credit card.
When you use a credit card you are (hopefully) temporarily borrowing money from some company to pay for whatever you're purchasing while if you pay cash you're using your own money.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'Y')ou pay daily.
I pay daily, what do I pay daily?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AAA', 'I') pay monthly and I draw interest while my money sits in the bank for those 30 days.

So technically I am saving more money than you because I am getting 30 days interest on mine. Right?
No, well, not according to the definition of save.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')ave
1  verb, saved, sav⋅ing, noun
[...]
6. to set aside, reserve, or lay by: to save money.

You're certainly being thrifty, provided you can borrow the money from your credit card company at no cost, and earn a half a percent or whatever in interest on your money, but you aren't saving more than someone else, all other things being equal, you're earning more than they are.

Arguably, the way marketing firms work, just about anything can be considered to be "saving" money. For instance "saving" money during a sale, which is really just paying less for something from whatever merchant, but if they can convince people that they are "saving" money too, something that generally has a positive connotation, then they can sell more crap. But anyway the literal definition of save, earn, and borrow are all distinct wrt money.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby odegaard » Fri 22 May 2009, 11:32:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')redit could become harder to come by too.
Whereas it will make it difficult for a lot of people, however, when one learns to live within its limits, it's one less thing to worry about. I speak from experience.
I use my credit card because I like the convenience, usefulness, and consumer protection and NOT because I need the credit.

example 1:
When I go to the gas station I just swipe my card at the pump instead of having to go see the cashier which is usually some big ugly hairy man.

example 2:
Hotel reservations.

example 3:
I once paid for a service off the internet (web hosting). Anyways the company failed to deliver on what they promised.
I sent a complaint -> 48hr no response.
I sent a 2nd complaint threatening to call my credit card company to have a hold placed on the money charged -> problem solved in 24hr :mrgreen:
//
yeah I see what you're saying. A person doesn't really "need" credit. It's a lie fed to us by the power elites.
Credit doesn't allow you to buy more. It allows you to buy now and pay later with interest of course.
Have you ever walked into the financial center of a major city and noticed all the pretty tall buildings and wondered where the hell did the money come from to pay for all these skyscrapers? The money came from J6P paying interest on credit. :roll:
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby VMarcHart » Fri 22 May 2009, 13:20:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')redit could become harder to come by too.
Whereas it will make it difficult for a lot of people, however, when one learns to live within its limits, it's one less thing to worry about. I speak from experience.
I use my credit card because I like the convenience, usefulness, and consumer protection and NOT because I need the credit.
Same here, at least most recently, but that was not always the case.
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Re: Government Strikes Again At Savers And Thrifty

Unread postby Schmuto » Fri 22 May 2009, 16:21:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'E')lementary my dear Watson. The big sign say $2.599 per gallon. If they charge you less than that, it's a discount. If they charge you more than that, it's a surcharge.



So let's say the averaged cost of a widget is 5 bucks, and half my sales are CC and half cash.

If I say 5.10 is what it costs, but 4.90 if you pay cash . . .

that's different than if I say it's 4.90 but 5.10 if you pay with a CC?


And there's a difference there?

:roll:
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