[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'S')o no communistic nation has managed to implement proper communism where the elite doesn't take advantage and let the people go poor. How come we now are so optimistic that it will succeed?

[Micki]

I agree.
The problem is however taking something from theory to practice.
Communism has certainly not had any particularly good track reckord in being implemented.

Besides that, people like Byron100 was actually stating things like;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t's just too darned bad that the USSR isn't still around, demonstrating an alternative way of doing things for when the capitalistic system crashes down.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'I') agree.
The problem is however taking something from theory to practice.
Communism has certainly not had any particularly good track reckord in being implemented.

[Micki]

One more; Sovjet was first to send a dog to space.

So you are suggesting that if communism had been implemented around the world we would have a happy proletarian utopia with equality and solidarity and no shady elite taking advantage?
And I guess freedom of speech, religion etc would have been restored?

I know USSR suffered great casualties during WW2.
Amongst other the Finns took them out about 10 to 1 in kills when they covardly staged a false flag operation and then attacked Finland.
I just wish our neighbours in the baltic states could have done the same instead of living decades in dictatorship and have citizens sent to siberia for thought crimes.

They also suffered from decreasing population as a result of tens of millions of people being executed or dying in deportation in gulag camps after the war.


And regarding your question capitalism.
First of all, just becasue I think one system won't work, don't make the assumption that I automatically think that another system will.

Secondly, the term capitalism is about as abused and broadly interpretated as anything else.
Are you for instance against private ownership as this is at the core of what capitalism stands for?

In my opinion USA for instance does not operate according to a good model for capitalism as they run it in a more fascist (or socialist) manner than free market.

I am more and more convinced that any form of control inherently tempts abuse by those who are put in the controlling position.
I therefore think that rather than giving governments omnipotent powers they should meddle as little as possible in peoples lifes.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', 'O')ne more; Sovjet was first to send a dog to space.

[MrBill]

I think it is telling that Karl Marx at the end of his career felt obliged to say he was not a Marxist! His followers bastardized what he wrote and distorted what he meant. Do not give Lenin too much credit. He was just a bloody and brutal as Stalin.

Having lived and worked in several communist and ex-communist countries I have seen the after-effects of Soviet Union. Certainly, many of the CEE countries annexed by the USSR after WWII did not wish to be under communist rule much less controlled from Moscow. I think it is always a telling tale when you have to hold your Empire together by force. It is not like Hungary, Czechoslovakia and later Poland did not try to leave. I can hardly understand why the GDR wanted to reunite with West Germany?

Saw a great BBC World News documentary on doping in sports in China ahead of the Olympics. Yes, a real workers paradise on earth. No cheating. No breaking the rules. No winning at any cost. No pollution. Who cares about those young kids living in segregated sports camps that learn no other skills other than their sport and are forced to use unsafe steroids. Its not like the IOC's own doping experts have access to them. Just the official Party looking out for every workers best interest! ; - ))

[skeptik]

And dont even think about buying toilet roll. (according to the relatives of the Zimbabwean wife of a friend of mine) using 'small denomination' (lol!) notes gives better bum wipe value.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') think it is telling that Karl Marx at the end of his career felt obliged to say he was not a Marxist! His followers bastardized what he wrote and distorted what he meant. Do not give Lenin too much credit. He was just a bloody and brutal as Stalin.

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'A') good article. I am probably in the minority in seeing this as a global problem and not just a US or US-dollar problem. I think we are in a rolling, global recession going west to east, and round two starts when it rolls back onto American shores at the end of 2008/start of 2009. Then it starts over again. The global imbalances are simply too large to be unwound in an orderly manner. Thanks for the link.

[CarlosFerreira]

Can I ask why Europe before Asia? Just curious, no idea which would go down first.

[Zardoz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '.')..But yes, the outcome of what Marx envisioned and the reality were two different things, which isn't too surprising really as he wrote it as an ideal solution not counting on the human condition.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '.')..But yes, the outcome of what Marx envisioned and the reality were two different things, which isn't too surprising really as he wrote it as an ideal solution not counting on the human condition.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '
') i have a tiny bone to pick. it isn't necessarily basic human nature; it's the nature of people who have been born and raised within our current western-influenced world-culture. if, for example, you jump back in time to certain native american tribes, you'll find that communal systems CAN operate and that the tragedy of the commons can be avoided.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zardoz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', '.')..But yes, the outcome of what Marx envisioned and the reality were two different things, which isn't too surprising really as he wrote it as an ideal solution not counting on the human condition.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'A')s for "held together by Force". What do you make then of the current American Empire? The US has troops in more places these days than the USSR ever had at the height of their empire.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'A')s for "held together by Force". What do you make then of the current American Empire? The US has troops in more places these days than the USSR ever had at the height of their empire.

[Cloud9]

Europe has had sixty years of relative peace under Pax Americana. When we are gone we will be followed by the dark ages.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlosFerreira', 'C')an I ask why Europe before Asia? Just curious, no idea which would go down first.

[Cloud9]

Should the United States turn inward, I suspect China will make short work of the Middle East. Russia and China will lock horns. Russia has the edge in weapon technology China has the edge in people. China may invade Russia much in the same way Mexico has invaded the United States one bracero at a time or it may opt for a military invasion.

China invaded Vietnam after the Americans left and got spanked. That generation has passed and a new more militaristic mind set may take hold. The bad news is Russia, the Middle East and all of Europe is within walking distance of the Red Army

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'S')hould the United States turn inward, I suspect China will make short work of the Middle East. Russia and China will lock horns. Russia has the edge in weapon technology China has the edge in people. China may invade Russia much in the same way Mexico has invaded the United States one bracero at a time or it may opt for a military invasion.