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Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

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Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Jogger » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 00:23:05

Is it possible that a group of people will be exploring our galaxy in the near future while everyone else is suffering on Earth from corporate slavery, a possible nuclear war, Peak Oil, natural disasters, etc.?

They would be exploring a galaxy with billions of stars and possibly thousands of habitable planets, only a small percentage of the entire universe. They may find worlds similar to Earth. They may find other intelligent life forms, maybe more intelligent than humans.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby NEOPO » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 01:03:51

They may get squished like a bug on the same rock that could eventually smash into earth and kill all hope of anything even remotely like that ever occuring again ;-)

Seriously though exploring space for other habitable planets is not an option - if we are to survive this is 100% mandatory activity.

With some luck we have a few billion years before the worst occurs and then its "time to go" ready or not.

Your scenario because of PO ? Thats just cornucopian to believe we can instantly send people into deep space at will.

But lets say if the sun was acting "funny" and scientists agreed it was going to quickly "phase out" in 20 years !! etc etc unlike what they had expected.....hmmmm yes I would say all kinds of "rich kids" and others might be donning space suits and shooting for the moon of a bluegreen planet in another galaxy.

For some reason I want to pause on that thought and for a moment I feel sadness for whatever if any life forms that they may eventually or inevitably encounter.

Hopefully any lifeforms they encounter are more intelligent and have a way to subdue the humans until they evolve beyond their predisposition toward greed and the use of violence to attain and secure it.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby rogerhb » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 03:31:49

a. The distances are immense, it just ain't going to happen.

b. We've already fucked up this place, let's quarrantine ourselves.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Doly » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 04:01:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'b'). We've already fucked up this place, let's quarrantine ourselves.


1. Just because the father is a disaster, it doesn't mean the child will be.

2. It remains to be seen if we'll be able to get ourselves out of this mess. I'm optimistic.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 08:29:08

By imposing relativistic factors on motion and mass God did the quarantine exercise just fine. No need to be concerned.

There will be no FTL drives in our reality.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby TITAN » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 12:57:10

Actually, all we need to do is:

A. figure out how to create/contain exotic matter/anti-matter.

B. figure out how to implement it into a FTL drive.

Interestingly, B has proven FAR easier than A, thanks to that ever-annoying energy problem...
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Ingenuity_Gap » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 14:37:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'I')s it possible that a group of people will be exploring our galaxy in the near future while everyone else is suffering on Earth from corporate slavery, a possible nuclear war, Peak Oil, natural disasters, etc.?

They would be exploring a galaxy with billions of stars and possibly thousands of habitable planets, only a small percentage of the entire universe. They may find worlds similar to Earth. They may find other intelligent life forms, maybe more intelligent than humans.


You probably watched way too much Star Trek. I was thinking like you when I was 15 (probably you are around that age if you think like that, or if you’re older then you missed a lot of reading on the subject).

a. The cosmic distances are immense, mind boggling, insurmountable, vast, massive, enormous, colossal, monumental, monstrous, mammoth, titanic. AKA 1 light year is no walk in the park.

b. The energy required to travel those distances is huge, humongous, gigantic, gargantuan, astronomical. The means to cram that energy into a practical spaceship are inexistent. Even the most efficient energy source (antimatter-matter annihilation which is 100% efficient) is no match for the distance to other star systems.

c. The technology to achieve space travel even to the nearest star (Proxima Centauri - 4.2 light years) in a reasonable timeframe is way beyond our reach.

To allow for practical space travel we need to discover a means to:

1. exceed light speed
2. propel a vehicle without propellant
3. power such a vehicle.

Every technological advance goes through a few phases:

1. Conjecture
2. Speculation
3. Science
4. Technology
5. Application

Where are we regarding space travel? At the level of speculation for the most part.

At the present level of technology to produce 1 gram of antimatter, CERN would need to spend 100 million trillion dollars and run the antimatter factory for 100 billion years.

1 gram of antimatter won't take you very far though.

So you can forget about the majority of people suffering here on Earth while a bunch of enthusiasts will travel the galaxy. That won’t happen soon. Everybody will suffer here on Earth.

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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Ingenuity_Gap » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 14:39:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rwwff', 'B')y imposing relativistic factors on motion and mass God did the quarantine exercise just fine. No need to be concerned.

There will be no FTL drives in our reality.


There will be no FTL drives in our reality in the near future. Only God knows what the distant future will bring.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Jogger » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 14:59:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'I')s it possible that a group of people will be exploring our galaxy in the near future while everyone else is suffering on Earth from corporate slavery, a possible nuclear war, Peak Oil, natural disasters, etc.?

They would be exploring a galaxy with billions of stars and possibly thousands of habitable planets, only a small percentage of the entire universe. They may find worlds similar to Earth. They may find other intelligent life forms, maybe more intelligent than humans.


You probably watched way too much Star Trek. I was thinking like you when I was 15 (probably you are around that age if you think like that, or if you’re older then you missed a lot of reading on the subject).

a. The cosmic distances are immense, mind boggling, insurmountable, vast, massive, enormous, colossal, monumental, monstrous, mammoth, titanic. AKA 1 light year is no walk in the park.

b. The energy required to travel those distances is huge, humongous, gigantic, gargantuan, astronomical. The means to cram that energy into a practical spaceship are inexistent. Even the most efficient energy source (antimatter-matter annihilation which is 100% efficient) is no match for the distance to other star systems.

c. The technology to achieve space travel even to the nearest star (Proxima Centauri - 4.2 light years) in a reasonable timeframe is way beyond our reach.

To allow for practical space travel we need to discover a means to:

1. exceed light speed
2. propel a vehicle without propellant
3. power such a vehicle.

Every technological advance goes through a few phases:

1. Conjecture
2. Speculation
3. Science
4. Technology
5. Application

Where are we regarding space travel? At the level of speculation for the most part.

At the present level of technology to produce 1 gram of antimatter, CERN would need to spend 100 million trillion dollars and run the antimatter factory for 100 billion years.

1 gram of antimatter won't take you very far though.

So you can forget about the majority of people suffering here on Earth while a bunch of enthusiasts will travel the galaxy. That won’t happen soon. Everybody will suffer here on Earth.

Space Travel


Star Trek is not the reason why I posted this topic. As you are probably aware, physicist Stephen Hawking recently said that in order for humans to survive in the future they must colonize space. You are essentially telling me and everyone else that it will be impossible. Should we not have any children then?
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby qwerty » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 15:11:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ingenuity_Gap', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'I')s it possible that a group of people will be exploring our galaxy in the near future while everyone else is suffering on Earth from corporate slavery, a possible nuclear war, Peak Oil, natural disasters, etc.?

They would be exploring a galaxy with billions of stars and possibly thousands of habitable planets, only a small percentage of the entire universe. They may find worlds similar to Earth. They may find other intelligent life forms, maybe more intelligent than humans.


You probably watched way too much Star Trek. I was thinking like you when I was 15 (probably you are around that age if you think like that, or if you’re older then you missed a lot of reading on the subject).

a. The cosmic distances are immense, mind boggling, insurmountable, vast, massive, enormous, colossal, monumental, monstrous, mammoth, titanic. AKA 1 light year is no walk in the park.

b. The energy required to travel those distances is huge, humongous, gigantic, gargantuan, astronomical. The means to cram that energy into a practical spaceship are inexistent. Even the most efficient energy source (antimatter-matter annihilation which is 100% efficient) is no match for the distance to other star systems.

c. The technology to achieve space travel even to the nearest star (Proxima Centauri - 4.2 light years) in a reasonable timeframe is way beyond our reach.

To allow for practical space travel we need to discover a means to:

1. exceed light speed
2. propel a vehicle without propellant
3. power such a vehicle.

Every technological advance goes through a few phases:

1. Conjecture
2. Speculation
3. Science
4. Technology
5. Application

Where are we regarding space travel? At the level of speculation for the most part.

At the present level of technology to produce 1 gram of antimatter, CERN would need to spend 100 million trillion dollars and run the antimatter factory for 100 billion years.

1 gram of antimatter won't take you very far though.

So you can forget about the majority of people suffering here on Earth while a bunch of enthusiasts will travel the galaxy. That won’t happen soon. Everybody will suffer here on Earth.

Space Travel


Star Trek is not the reason why I posted this topic. As you are probably aware, physicist Stephen Hawking recently said that in order for humans to survive in the future they must colonize space. You are essentially telling me and everyone else that it will be impossible. Should we not have any children then?


We are not going to colonize space Jogger. I like Star Trek as much as, or perhaps more than you do, but its just NOT gonna happen.

I'm sorry, but most likely scenarios are:

1) WWIII all out nuke, earth and moon gone.

2) Massive Dieoff of 90% world population, back to the Stone Age for the rest of the survivors.

3) Slow dieoff, eventually something of easter island inhabitants or the likes.

The only things that would change the picture is if ZPE or Fusion was all of a sudden discover, or Christ is coming back (which I'm going to entertain the thought becauses its so pervasive in the thinking of so many), or aliens dropped by and left us some advanced technology.

Ain't none of these three will happen.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Ingenuity_Gap » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 15:17:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'S')tar Trek is not the reason why I posted this topic. As you are probably aware, physicist Stephen Hawking recently said that in order for humans to survive in the future they must colonize space. You are essentially telling me and everyone else that it will be impossible. Should we not have any children then?


Some of us shouldn't. But who am I to say who?

I don't need Stephen Hawking to tell me that we have to colonize the space if we want to survive as a species. It's common sense: more planets, more chances (to f..k up).

I'm not saying that space travel is impossible, I'm just stating the facts: it's a very very very difficult challenge.

I dream about space travel too. But when I think, I think about something else, like PO or GW. There are so many things between us and space travel, and I'm not talking about the lack of technology here.

Let's fix those things first before it's too late and then we can talk about exporting the plagues from Earth to the Universe at large.

If we don't deal with PO and GW right away, we may never-ever reach a point were we will colonize the space.

And that's something that papa Hawking omitted to tell us. Why?
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 15:32:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jogger', 'p')hysicist Stephen Hawking recently said that in order for humans to survive in the future they must colonize space. You are essentially telling me and everyone else that it will be impossible. Should we not have any children then?


Moon and Mars are very difficult but remain within the realm of possibility. Realistically, I don't think it happens. We'll go and explore there again, we might even get a 2 month long expedition to Mars. But they will always be returning. I just don't think we ,as a nation, have the guts anymore to look somewhere and say "I'm going, I'm not coming back, if I survive, great; if not, light a candle in my memory on my birthday." Which is funny, really. We'll go fight a war where thousands die, but as long as the INTENT is to come back alive, it doesn't even register on the same scale as suggesting that after deploying some equipment and material to Mars, some group of people might suggest, "no return capsule necessary, more solar panels and rtg's please."
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby NEOPO » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 15:43:24

Not to take away from the fact that we will probably never if ever colonize space er nothing but.

I have already said "I am leaving and I aint coming back" rwwff.
I havent left yet and in time I may come back but as far as getting on the ship that is about to launch - suit helmet check - pee tube check - major tom to ground control all is a go.

You see I am leaving what you call "the grid" and also what you may see as "the system" because along the way and parcel to the pursuit of relative sustainability I realized that this was the true rebellion taking place and this indeed may be the real reason my heart keeps telling me to "go for it" and "do something different with your life" and "make a change by making a good example" and "show others that it can be done with relative comfort and you dont have to go run off like some survivalist to make it through post peak and beyond" yes funny a heart could be saying so much but I believe mine is.

What is your heart telling you to do?
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby rwwff » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 15:51:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', 'W')hat is your heart telling you to do?


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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 16:54:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('NEOPO', '
')With some luck we have a few billion years before the worst occurs and then its "time to go" ready or not.
"We" don't have a few billion years. "We" have something like fore score each give or take a few, if we're lucky. And our species couldn't possibly last another 100 million, let alone a few billion. Nature doesn't work that way. Only a few very simple organisms last unchanged for hundreds of million of years and they are rare because they somehow keep their phenotype even while the genetic drift of their genotype changes unavoibably throughout the eons. Most go extinct to be replaced by others. Especially the complex, specialized "top of the food chain" types. Someday, not too far off in the Geological scale of time, humans will be extinct even if we don't blow the world up.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Gigashadow » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 17:23:40

What, exactly, is so important about preserving the human race?
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 18:32:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Gigashadow', 'W')hat, exactly, is so important about preserving the human race?
Nothing, really. All that matters is the preservation of our own generation, our offspring and theirs. Beyond that it doesn't matter. Now to the grandkids, the same formula will apply. But that will be their problem. So there is a connection, but it gets more abstract with each additional generation until, say, seven or eight out, when it's all irrelevant. If those folks in those future days are split into two halves, with one half living underground and the other half living on the surface, and the ones who live underground breed and eat the ones on the surface, what does it matter to us? Answer, it doesn't because we will not be around to know or care, and nobody we know or love will be either.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Novus » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 19:01:53

Notice the spaceman at the peak where we are. The age of space travel is quickly passing.

Image
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby qwerty » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 19:12:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'N')otice the spaceman at the peak where we are. The age of space travel is quickly passing.

Image


I agree. Technological progress has all but come to a stop.
People think we are in the information age or digital age, entering the nano age, space age, ipod age, I say whatever. We as a human species have never successfully left the oil/industrial age. We are still in the oil age in reality, and soon even that will be gone.

The scary thing is, right now our mass production system is very very efficent, and right now our technology and advanced tools enable our society to collect high-hanging sources of resource, raw materials, energy, etc. When we go back to the stone age, we will lose that efficency, and lose our ability to extract the materials we need, since all of the easy to obtain low-hanging fruits are all but long gone.

And its different this time around, unlike the iron age or bronze age, this time when we go back our population is a order of magnitude larger, this time people's expectations of morality, or ethics and of 'tolerance' will screw them up in the end. Look at the lengths we as a society take to keep someone alive, this would have costs an entire civilizations energy fortune a few hundred years ago.

Absent all modern technology, when another asteriod comeths to earth, its extinction time for the caveman homo sapiens.

Any way you put it, its Game Over Human Race.
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Re: Exploring the galaxy for other habitable planets

Unread postby Jogger » Thu 21 Sep 2006, 20:59:27

Maybe aliens will come to our rescue! :lol:

Suppose we receive a signal from an extraterrestrial civilization sometime this century, with instructions on how to build a machine that will transport a passenger light years in space in an instant. This is what happened in the movie Contact.

Yes, I know it's very unlikely, but maybe aliens will save some humans. 8)
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