[StevenSlaughter]

Among my gloomy summer reading on PO, I just finished a book not specifically about PO, but one that clearly has some things to say about a best possible future. It is Eric Brende's "Better Off: Flipping the Switch on Technology." Brende was a grad student consciously critiquing the effects of technology in our lives (amusingly, he was doing this at MIT). He isn't a strict Luddite, but thinks through what hardly anybody considers anymore -- what do I give up along with whatever I gain from each technology I use? To examine his ideas, he and his wife move to a small farming village.

I'm not quite sure where it is (he is careful to preserve their privacy). It is not strictly Amish, though to the eyes of most of us, it would appear so. As he described it, some folks had been Old Order Amish, while others were Mennonite, while a few were non-religious but gravitated to this lifestyle. Like the Amish, there is a religious and cultural connection between most of the long-term residents, but they also welcome others to work along side them and become neighbors.

Anyway, as I read the book, it struck me that this is the sort of village that could survive long-term pretty much independently better than almost any model I can imagine. Brende really emphasizes the community aspect of life as the heart of its satisfactions. In his own modest first-season farming attempts, he was given huge amounts of help, even as he provided help to others. This was not only technically vital but, Brende says, emotionally and socially satisfying in a way that struggling as a solo homesteader would not have been.

As such, I wonder if such communities are forming and thought that some of you might be either doing this already or be thinking about it as part of your plans. Building such places from scratch is very difficult, which is why most of the hippie communes are long gone. And I'm not talking about communes anyway, but more like Amish farming communities with a strong culture of common aid and concern for neighbors. Can something like this thrive without a certain cultural rigidity, such a common religious identity?

In my imagination, I see a very satisfying kind of life that contains many of the benefits of Amish living, but with more flexibility and variation in culture, religion, etc. While I enjoy spending time with fellow Christians, I don't want to cloister myself off with only others just like me.

Anyway, just wanted to launch a discussion along these lines.

Thoughts?

Steven Slaughter
Chicago

[Ludi]

If you're interested in forming community from scratch, I recommend Diana Leafe Christian's book "Creating a Life Together."

Several people on the board here are creating communities of various types and there are a few threads about it.

[MadScientist]

head north 6 hours or so. Check out the small farming communities a long ways from any city. You will find what you're looking for.

[blukatzen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', 'h')ead north 6 hours or so. Check out the small farming communities a long ways from any city. You will find what you're looking for.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('blukatzen', '
')write me offlist if you want more of a local perspective.

[patience]

StevenSlaughter,

What I see is variations on the theme you offered, that is, degrees of closeness in communities. I expect that close communities will be better positioned to thrive in the future, so we sought out an area of that sort. As our current economy falters, people who are already used to dealing with the locals will forge tighter bonds to cope. I see it already here. With a bit of luck, this sort of area has a future. Those who are essentially estranged from their neighborhood will have a tough go of it.

[Devin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Steven', 'C')an something like this thrive without a certain cultural rigidity, such a common religious identity?

[patience]

Devin,

Really? Heck, we have a small town with farmers, Mexicans, politicians, Baptists, Vietnamese, Pentecostals, black people, Chinese, Rednecks, Amish, and at least one cranky machinist, all living peacefully here. Sorry 'bout your neighborhood.....

edit: Maybe it's because the Mexicans and Chinese all have excellent restaurants. Nah, we even tolerate some furriners from the big city, too, so that ain't it. Must be sumthin' in the water, huh?

Well, my point is, the US is a pretty diverse place now.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', '
')Well, my point is, the US is a pretty diverse place now.

[Nicholai]

I'll be visiting intentional communities, ecovillages and ecohamlets all throughout Europe and Quebec in about 9 days :D

I've been saving money for this trip for the last 7 months or so.

I'll keep everyone updated on how things go.

[Cloud9]

It has all been done before.

http://www-lib.iupui.edu/kade/newharmony/home.html

[patience]

New Harmony isn't that far from me. They suffered from having too many thinkers, and not enough doers. It ended with a whimper, if I remember right.

The beauty that I see in the US "melting pot" is that the ad hoc situation allows for adjustments with only the broadest of limitations--don't kill each other, your freedom ends where my nose begins, etc.. When a group is restricted in freedom by a strict set of rules, some overriding reason must be there for them to stay with it.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')But we share a common cultural identity of being "Americans" or "US citizens," at least most of us, often especially the folks with the good restaurants!

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'I')'ll be visiting intentional communities, ecovillages and ecohamlets all throughout Europe and Quebec in about 9 days :D

I've been saving money for this trip for the last 7 months or so.

I'll keep everyone updated on how things go.

[blukatzen]

[quote="mos6507]Sounds good on paper. Doesn't necessarily work out that way in the real world. It was like I wasn't even in the US anymore. These places seriously discourage anyone from going there besides their own.[/quote]

There are many neighborhoods and stores, restaurants like that here in Chicago, even though it suffers from intense gentrification.
I would NOT feel comfortable at all going into certain areas not because of crime, but because I am a foreigner in my own city, in my own land.

The strata layers of boundaries in cities used to be somewhat blendable. I remember going to Chinatown or other heavily ethnic non-European American parts of the city when I was young with my folks as they loved to attend their festivals. Now, you are met with either indifference or hostility in many cases.

There is not this attitude of melting pot anymore. Now, it's "get the He** out of my face, out of my 'hood".

I don't care about restaurants either. If I am not wanted, and I haven't done anything wrong to you, then why would I care to break bread with you?

It's not going to be pleasant in the cities after TSHTF.

Blu

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Sounds good on paper. Doesn't necessarily work out that way in the real world. Everything tends to break off into groups. Like in Los Angeles you have Koreatown, East LA, etc... I remember one time I went to a doctor's visit in Koreatown and there was no english signage on the wall. I went to dinner once in North Hollywood and the sign and menu was in spanish, the waiter didn't speak english, and they didn't take credit cards. It was like I wasn't even in the US anymore. These places seriously discourage anyone from going there besides their own.

[MadScientist]

There are all sorts of people.

In general, they mirror your perception of them.

If you go in scared and worried, chances are you will find a reason to be scared and worried.

If you approach with love and openness, that is usually exactly what you find.

perception = reality

awareness = life


Race and religeon are real. They are natural "fault lines". The more (or less!) homogenous your community is, the better.

For all of these issues, people need specific skills. You have to be able to live with risk. overcome fear and assess a situation rationally.

You dont get these skills until you begin to overcome the fear of the unknown.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', '
')Race and religeon are real.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I lived in North Hollywood for years. Never felt out of place there.

[MadScientist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MadScientist', '
')Race and religeon are real.