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Energy Depletion & Property Ownership

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Energy Depletion & Property Ownership

Unread postby clueless » Thu 12 Jul 2007, 17:28:03

There has been one thing that persistently nags at me about owning property in a post peak environment; and that is property taxes.

Let's assume the govt. completely devalues the currency, kills the economy and we experience a massive depression.

In an environment like that and let's say 40% of the people cannot even pay their property taxes, could we expect the govt. to start seizing property ?

I have my home paid off, but don't really own it, and I was wondering what I can do to prepare for such an event (if anything).
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Re: Energy Depletion & Property Ownership

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 12 Jul 2007, 17:53:33

Local governments may attempt to seize property, but this kind of action has been prevented in the past (I vaguely remember a story from Australia during the depression) by neighbors showing up with shotguns to protect neighbors' homes and land from being seized. Most local governments, especially smaller communities, won't have the resources to war for property. And there would be no benefit to the taxing authority becoming the enemy of those who, after all, have been paying their wages.


I think most properties would be seized soon after the crash, but not years later, as the number of empty properties would become so vast, no local authority would be able to protect them and they would be reoccupied by squatters, possibly even the original owners who were evicted!


I worry about being able to pay property taxes in the future, definitely. Heck, I was worrying about it quite a bit in the present until we got agricultural valuation on our place. But our taxes are still quite high.


One might be able to pool with friends and family to help maintain one property to share, if times get that tough.
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Re: Energy Depletion & Property Ownership

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 04:39:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('clueless', 'T')here has been one thing that persistently nags at me about owning property in a post peak environment; and that is property taxes.

Let's assume the govt. completely devalues the currency, kills the economy and we experience a massive depression.

In an environment like that and let's say 40% of the people cannot even pay their property taxes, could we expect the govt. to start seizing property ?

I have my home paid off, but don't really own it, and I was wondering what I can do to prepare for such an event (if anything).

Taxes are usually set at possibly high, but yet affordable level for substantial majority of citizens.

So if 40% of peoples cannot pay them it is taxman's problem and taxes will surely go down without mass evictions, but if it is 5% and you had happened to be between those unlucky folks, you may well loose your home.

If there is real shitty depression in your local region you may even benefit from tax amnesty. Governments are often granting such amnesties in flood affected areas or other natural disaster zones, in EU at least.

Governments in general are showing some self preservation instinct and they are rarely attempting measures, which could easily lead to civil war or erosion of authority by other means.

The same with defaults on debt.
If few % defaulted, they will loose properties, but if 50% did - no way.
So if PO depression is used for designed wealth transfer purpose, it is important for designers to never put too much pressure on population causing say 30% of default rate.
Pressure should be increased in steps, so only small minority is at trouble at any given time.
Once you seized their properties you will increase pressure slightly and so on...

In any case banking system is a higher threat to indebted homeowners, than local property taxes going banana.
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Re: Energy Depletion & Property Ownership

Unread postby Byron100 » Fri 13 Jul 2007, 09:17:18

One thing that will surely have to go in the coming depression is public schools, as this is typically the biggest expense of local governments. Other things to go will be garbage collection, paid fire departments and things such as parks management, code & zoning, etc. Last to go will be the police...I wonder if funding for local policing would come from the states, who would presumably still be able to collect sales taxes.

If people can't pay, they can't pay...we're already starting to see this sort of thing in Florida...big layoffs coming this fall down there...even to the point of schools being closed. (!)

If any of you have young children, better plan on home-schooling them, or better yet, just let them be kids and have a good life while they can :)
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