[fossilnut2]

"They'll probably make sure it happens'

"Who is this 'they"?

Whenever I read a posting about the anonymous 'they' who supposedly plot gas shortages and micro manage prices at your local pump I think of the poster being Dale Gribble from 'King of the Hill'.

It would be much easier to solve issues of the environment, energy, etc. if there was a 'they'. Find the source of bad policy, the controlers, and take over control of the ship. Unfortunately there is no 'they' but only a 'we'. Look in the mirror.

The energy issue is as much a result of your grandma's lifestyle as any control by an executive in an oil tower.

[3rensho]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cynus', 'W')ala!

[emersonbiggins]

As for increasing gas taxes, can anything pass without a referendum? I know that a proposed increase on state gas taxes (incredibly low at 17¢/gal gas, 14¢/gal diesel) in Okla. was resoundly defeated at the polls recently. This side of pure masochism, I don't think we'll see conservation via tax increases anytime soon.

[EnemyCombatant]

I've asked this question before on another thread -- regarding rationing and I am well aware of the 2 day school day reprieve. I live in Atlanta and I have a school age son.

But that's not rationing.

If there is a serious natural gas/diesel shortage that is imminent, why aren't we taking measures yesterday?

It just doesn't add up. The lip services from the energy secretary is just that.

Something else is at play here.

[backstop]

EC -

Something else is at play here -

Beside the cultural difficulty in admitting that the omnipotence of US decadence is just a myth, there are culpbaility issues for the Whitehouse.

I saw the Ex Iraqi oil minister on BBC directly blaming years of US Army priorities for the fall of Iraqi exports from 2.6Mbpd to 1.4Mbpd at present.

That supply cushion being removed by Whitehouse policy could be terminally embarrassing if and when the media begin to discuss it.

There are of course also other issues, such as strategy towards China, in play.

regards,

Backstop

[Ketzl]

I personally think there isn't rationing yet for three reasons: 1, damage assessment from the Gulf region isn't completed, so there's still hope that the rigs, platforms, pipelines, refineries, etc will come back online shortly. 2, no one wants a repetition of the gas panic after Katrina, and 3, reliance on market forces might be the best way to handle it, letting individual gas station owners decide to ration or not.

Or perhaps the shortage really isn't that serious? Looking at recent Georgia diesel prices for the last 8 hours, numbers range from $2.69 to $3.99. Just spot shortages, perhaps.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'I')If there is a serious natural gas/diesel shortage that is imminent, why aren't we taking measures yesterday?

It just doesn't add up. The lip services from the energy secretary is just that.

Something else is at play here.

[aahala]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3rensho', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cynus', 'W')ala!

[Grimnir]

Why no rationing if the government is afraid of shortages?

-Not sufficiently competent to plan and execute on that scale
-The data aren't all in yet
-Still have hope the whole thing might be averted somehow

[azreal60]

That and a common repeated thread from tom clancy novels. The guy is as conservative as they come, but several times he says something i've noticed for a very long time.

"What makes you think the average person or even the exceptional person in government is smarter than you?"

There are the exceptional like the above mentioned Senator that are noticing. But until it's a huge percentage noticing, nothing will be done. The idea that energy isn't something that ends is simply too entrenched. It's unfortunate, but why do you think the doomers are so doomy?It's not because we can't change, it's because they are pretty sure we won't until its too late.

[EnemyCombatant]

This is not an IQ test.

Refineries down.
No production of gas.
Gas shortage.

I refuse to believe this is a 'stupidity' problem.

[oowolf]

Artificial fertilizer is made of NG. Is anyone thinking about spring planting beyond the price/availability of diesel fuel for tractors, etc?
The local fuel dealer (NW MT) told me his supplier told him to expect severely limited availability of heating gas this winter.

[MicroHydro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnemyCombatant', 'M')ay I play devil's advocate.

How come the government is not implementing any rationing. If it's true there are naturgal gas and diesel shortage, then why not take action.

[Cool Hand Linc]

EnemyCombatant

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') refuse to believe this is a 'stupidity' problem.

[EnemyCombatant]

Nope.

I don't think that anyone can do such intensive mental gymnastics. Keep in mind we are not in a dictatorship. There are numerous people involved in this policy making and many advisors.

How can it be that they ALL are in denial.

The only logical explanation is that there is NO shortage.

Well, there are other explanations that are beyond the scope of this message board.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('oowolf', 'A')rtificial fertilizer is made of NG. Is anyone thinking about spring planting beyond the price/availability of diesel fuel for tractors, etc?
The local fuel dealer (NW MT) told me his supplier told him to expect severely limited availability of heating gas this winter.

[Raxozanne]

sorry wrong thread

[ab0di]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '
')
Natural Gas has never been rationed before. TPTB don't even have a clue on how to implement this before winter. It will probably just be rationed by price. When people get their huge gas bills in January (for December consumption) they will turn down the thermostats big time. Hopefully natural gas demand in December will not be enough to create pressure loss in the pipeline system. If some poor people freeze this winter, that would be NWO demand destruction at its finest.

[J-Rod]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ab0di', '
')Probably only 1 in 3 people know how to relight the pilot on their furnace or water heater.

[backstop]

There are a number of well tested policy options that could be brought in even at this late stage, if the goal were to avoid people dying of cold.

Putting a revenue-neutral tarrif on gas-fuelled power production, or on industry as a whole, is a rather crude means of NG stocks' conservation.

Potentially in tandem with that is domestic supply being priced in tranches, whereby a basic survival heating ration is low-priced, a second tranche is priced higher than current levels, and a third tranche is priced very severely. This could be brought into operation with this month's bills to start seriously cutting consumption next month.

This form of rationing might just discourage some people from using NG to heat their swimming pools while others die of cold.

Sadly, with the example of NO, where the right to survive equated with personal wealth, such a remedy would require a fundamental philosophical shift for those in power.

regards,

Backstop