[onlooker]

Sorry
What is the Minimum EROI that a Sustainable
Society Must Have?
www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/2/1/25/pdf

[dcoyne78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'd')coyne78, all electricity generation depends on the extraction and conversion of minerals at a great cost in energy. That is the essential condition of the eroei equation. It is a life-cycle accounting that considers the embodied energy to make the energy available. So lithium batteries depend on mining equipment. Solar panels depend on heating quartz to over 2,000 degree F. All energy burns up energy. It has little to do with money. Money is only an IOU on future energy expenditures.

[dcoyne78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'S')orry
What is the Minimum EROI that a Sustainable
Society Must Have?
http://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/2/1/25/pdf

[onlooker]

And a prominent point is we are tasked with maintaining the integrity of our Economies even while attempting a full scale transition to alternative/Renewable energy which itself requires huge amounts of Energy. We are also dealing with much greater population levels and thus needing to account for the extra energy to provide for each additional person

[Cog]

375 days is all you need to worry about onlooker.

[dcoyne78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AdamB', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dcoyne78', '
')If oil were the only source of energy you might be correct, it isn't, so you are incorrect.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat is the Minimum EROI that a Sustainable Society Must Have?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')One must rely on Etp's assumptions, math, and conclusions and the integrity of its methods.[/qoute]
Why would anyone ever rely on someone else's assumptions?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')None has been called into question.

[onlooker]

Actually Pstarr, they have questioned everything about the Etp. The problem is they are incapable of critizing the Etp on its methodology as they lack the expertise. The best they have done is link to a few who have done so. But mostly they ramble on about how Etp methods are bogus, its assumptions stupid and its conclusions pure doomer fantasy. Well, perhaps they will be vindicated until then they are just loud mouths. The debate I do find interesting is Short with Rockdoc. Short claims certain things about the Oil Industry and Rockdoc counters with supposedly posts and links that contradict that. The problem is that Rockdoc is intimately associated with the Oil Industry and his references are all mainstream from the Oil Industry or its associated orgainizations. And that must be called into question in that the Oil Industry does NOT want it known that its downfall is impending for they will not hasten to cut the umbilical cord to profits .

[onlooker]

Yes, Rockman is a smart guy who seems impartial and quite knowledgable. Yes, while he is not a fan of Etp, he does see Oil's better days behind it. I hope is health conditions gets better given that he has described a very painful malady afflicting him.

[GHung]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')ockman is the opposite. The guy is hard at work making a crapload of money, staying in touch and and obviously having a wonderful time. I trust his comments and have learned so much from him. It is not a coincidence that he doesn't take the doomer position, and I forgive him.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')ll tight shale is costly to produce, so much so that the consumer can not support the industry without suffocating industry/private/public debt.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ot to mention zombies.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'A')ctually Pstarr, they have questioned everything about the Etp. The problem is they are incapable of critizing the Etp on its methodology as they lack the expertise. The best they have done is link to a few who have done so. But mostly they ramble on about how Etp methods are bogus, its assumptions stupid and its conclusions pure doomer fantasy. Well, perhaps they will be vindicated until then they are just loud mouths. The debate I do find interesting is Short with Rockdoc. Short claims certain things about the Oil Industry and Rockdoc counters with supposedly posts and links that contradict that. The problem is that Rockdoc is intimately associated with the Oil Industry and his references are all mainstream from the Oil Industry or its associated orgainizations. And that must be called into question in that the Oil Industry does NOT want it known that its downfall is impending for they will not hasten to cut the umbilical cord to profits .

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('onlooker', 'A')ctually Pstarr, they have questioned everything about the Etp. The problem is they are incapable of critizing the Etp on its methodology as they lack the expertise. The best they have done is link to a few who have done so. But mostly they ramble on about how Etp methods are bogus, its assumptions stupid and its conclusions pure doomer fantasy. Well, perhaps they will be vindicated until then they are just loud mouths. The debate I do find interesting is Short with Rockdoc. Short claims certain things about the Oil Industry and Rockdoc counters with supposedly posts and links that contradict that. The problem is that Rockdoc is intimately associated with the Oil Industry and his references are all mainstream from the Oil Industry or its associated orgainizations. And that must be called into question in that the Oil Industry does NOT want it known that its downfall is impending for they will not hasten to cut the umbilical cord to profits .

[marmico]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is they are incapable of critizing the Etp on its methodology as they lack the expertise.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')econdly, the empirical evidence indicates that it takes 14000 BTUs not 58000 BTUs to refine a 140000 BTU gallon of oil.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')econdly, the empirical evidence indicates that it takes 14000 BTUs not 58000 BTUs to refine a 140000 BTU gallon of oil.

[onlooker]

https://ac.els-cdn.com/S030142151300385 ... ee224b0ca5
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '4').1. Global oil and gas (petroleum)
The EROI for petroleum production appears to be declining over time for every place we have data. Gagnon et al. (2009) were able to generate an approximate “global” EROI for private oil and gas companies using the “upstream” financial database maintained and provided by John H. Herold Company. These results indicate that the EROI for publicly-traded global oil and gas was approximately 23:1 in 1992, 33:1 in 1999 and 18:1 in 2005 (Fig. 4). This “dome shaped” pattern seems to occur wherever there is a long enough data set, perhaps as a result of initial technical improvements being trumped in time by depletion.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ho might the RCT be?