[Armageddon]

Who in the hell is going to afford them in a worldwide economy that is on the verge collapsing ?

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'E')xcept that the cars themselves can be charged by solar panels either at charging stations (e.g. here), or at home (e.g. here), or at work (e.g. Chevy Volt), or on the car itself (e.g. Fisker Karma).

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'W')ho in the hell is going to afford them in a worldwide economy that is on the verge collapsing ?

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..A small number of analysts forecast that oil production will start to fall by 2020 - not because we are running out, but because we just won't need it.

...It is a bold prediction. Could it be right?

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'E')xcept that the cars themselves can be charged by solar panels either at charging stations (e.g. here), or at home (e.g. here), or at work (e.g. Chevy Volt), or on the car itself (e.g. Fisker Karma).

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..A small number of analysts forecast that oil production will start to fall by 2020 - not because we are running out, but because we just won't need it.

...It is a bold prediction. Could it be right?

[ralfy]

Related:

"The Energy Trap"

http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the-math/201 ... ergy-trap/

In short, consider the resources (not just oil but various minerals and even fresh water) needed not only to make electric cars but more electric cars, and not just more electric cars but various infrastructure connected to it (from paved roads to even power stations), and not just electric cars and infrastructure but even various consumer goods related to electric cars needed to maintain business as usual, not to mention continuous economic growth requiring the equivalent of around one Saudi Arabia every seven years (according to the IEA).

Given such requirements, is it logical to argue that oil will lose its luster? If any, I think it will be the opposite: oil will be more important than ever.

[Graeme]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'E')xcept that the cars themselves can be charged by solar panels either at charging stations (e.g. here), or at home (e.g. here), or at work (e.g. Chevy Volt), or on the car itself (e.g. Fisker Karma).

[Revi]

We think we need to have a car and live an energy intensive lifestyle, but the rest of the world may be able to teach us a thing or two. We could take the bus and get around a town on foot. The best use for fossil fuels is to grind grain or to cut wood. It should be used to transport goods instead of people. We are going to enter a world where you need to get more BTUs than the fuel you are using. For example you buy a gallon of gas and with it you drag out and cut wood that contains more energy than the gas you used. Otherwise it makes no sense. Going to the grocery store to get a carton of milk in a 5000 pound hunk of metal will seem as crazy as it really is.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', ' ') Going to the grocery store to get a carton of milk in a 5000 pound hunk of metal will seem as crazy as it really is.

[JohnRM]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')f course the whole problem with electricity is it is just a carrier of FF energy (for the most part) no different really from unleaded,

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnRM', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')f course the whole problem with electricity is it is just a carrier of FF energy (for the most part) no different really from unleaded,

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', 'E')lectric vehicles are NOT for the average joe - they are just to expensive new, and expensive secondhand when you factor in replacement battery sets.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GASMON', '
')As Lore said, there ain't any free lunches in the energy game.

[Windmills]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', 'A')nd if we can drop our demand faster than the natural decline of supplies? Presto....no different than the appearance of abundance, the discrepancy between supply and demand from whence all things good flow. Price wise anyway.

[seenmostofit]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Windmills', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', 'A')nd if we can drop our demand faster than the natural decline of supplies? Presto....no different than the appearance of abundance, the discrepancy between supply and demand from whence all things good flow. Price wise anyway.

[efarmer]

The fleet of vehicles, the fleet of power plants, the fleet of heating systems is manifest and huge. It does not change or turn over rapidly because it cannot. The only thing that is here and now doable and could make a huge difference is a change in attitude especially in the high life style countries to reduce their cost of ownership by voluntary sharing of fossil fuel powered systems, beginning with road transport. It is a trick that can cut consumption by a 20% factor, drop demand, lower prices, use existing infrastructure and owned systems, and turn the clock back to permit time to do something better and smarter.


Electronic communications that let's your run into town or work or shopping or on vacation bring another person along or deliver a desired product or good on the way home and knock a few bucks or more off of your personal overhead would be a game changer. Think of being a rural person and making a credit card buy of something in town and neighbor Joe drops it off for a $4 Paypal hit and you duck a $9 round trip to town and a 90 minute gap in your productive time, or being a senior and not having to drive or fret the trip.

A way to use the web to share personal transport on a compensated basis is a big bag of nickels for whomever makes it work. People who get into it will do their desired trips and turn a profit, those who are everyday folks will reduce their cost of vehicle ownership and fuel cost. This is the only bag I can think of you can stick on suburbia and temper it's fossil fuel folly, it also just might be fun. Since it requires a central financial clearing mechanism it should be lucrative for financial entities. If anything qualifies for tax incentives from the Feds or State or Local Gov. this should be it. They can tax the transport share to make up for the fuel tax loss from gasoline or diesel, and if ever there was a national security mission from on high, it is reducing our dependency on foreign petroleum for a nation built on cheap motoring and the living structure it has spawned and that is built and taxed and lived in right now.

[ralfy]

The bad news is that given a global capitalist economy coupled with increasing human population, demand has to keep rising.

So much for "presto".

[Beery1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('seenmostofit', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..A small number of analysts forecast that oil production will start to fall by 2020 - not because we are running out, but because we just won't need it.

...It is a bold prediction. Could it be right?