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Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

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Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:25:08

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$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]The demise of the dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading.

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.

The Americans, who are aware the meetings have taken place – although they have not discovered the details – are sure to fight this international cabal which will include hitherto loyal allies Japan and the Gulf Arabs. Against the background to these currency meetings, Sun Bigan, China's former special envoy to the Middle East, has warned there is a risk of deepening divisions between China and the US over influence and oil in the Middle East. "Bilateral quarrels and clashes are unavoidable," he told the Asia and Africa Review. "We cannot lower vigilance against hostility in the Middle East over energy interests and security."

This sounds like a dangerous prediction of a future economic war between the US and China over Middle East oil – yet again turning the region's conflicts into a battle for great power supremacy. China uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient. The transitional currency in the move away from dollars, according to Chinese banking sources, may well be gold. An indication of the huge amounts involved can be gained from the wealth of Abu Dhabi, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar who together hold an estimated $2.1 trillion in dollar reserves.

The decline of American economic power linked to the current global recession was implicitly acknowledged by the World Bank president Robert Zoellick. "One of the legacies of this crisis may be a recognition of changed economic power relations," he said in Istanbul ahead of meetings this week of the IMF and World Bank. But it is China's extraordinary new financial power – along with past anger among oil-producing and oil-consuming nations at America's power to interfere in the international financial system – which has prompted the latest discussions involving the Gulf states.

Brazil has shown interest in collaborating in non-dollar oil payments, along with India. Indeed, China appears to be the most enthusiastic of all the financial powers involved, not least because of its enormous trade with the Middle East.

China imports 60 per cent of its oil, much of it from the Middle East and Russia. The Chinese have oil production concessions in Iraq – blocked by the US until this year – and since 2008 have held an $8bn agreement with Iran to develop refining capacity and gas resources. China has oil deals in Sudan (where it has substituted for US interests) and has been negotiating for oil concessions with Libya, where all such contracts are joint ventures.

Furthermore, Chinese exports to the region now account for no fewer than 10 per cent of the imports of every country in the Middle East, including a huge range of products from cars to weapon systems, food, clothes, even dolls. In a clear sign of China's growing financial muscle, the president of the European Central Bank, Jean-Claude Trichet, yesterday pleaded with Beijing to let the yuan appreciate against a sliding dollar and, by extension, loosen China's reliance on US monetary policy, to help rebalance the world economy and ease upward pressure on the euro.

Ever since the Bretton Woods agreements – the accords after the Second World War which bequeathed the architecture for the modern international financial system – America's trading partners have been left to cope with the impact of Washington's control and, in more recent years, the hegemony of the dollar as the dominant global reserve currency.

The Chinese believe, for example, that the Americans persuaded Britain to stay out of the euro in order to prevent an earlier move away from the dollar. But Chinese banking sources say their discussions have gone too far to be blocked now. "The Russians will eventually bring in the rouble to the basket of currencies," a prominent Hong Kong broker told The Independent. "The Brits are stuck in the middle and will come into the euro. They have no choice because they won't be able to use the US dollar."

Chinese financial sources believe President Barack Obama is too busy fixing the US economy to concentrate on the extraordinary implications of the transition from the dollar in nine years' time. The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018.

The US discussed the trend briefly at the G20 summit in Pittsburgh; the Chinese Central Bank governor and other officials have been worrying aloud about the dollar for years. Their problem is that much of their national wealth is tied up in dollar assets.

"These plans will change the face of international financial transactions," one Chinese banker said. "America and Britain must be very worried. You will know how worried by the thunder of denials this news will generate."

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html


This is big, big news. This is the end of oil being traded in US dollars. Unless I read the above wrong, the dollar won't even be included in the new basket of currencies.

So the next question is, what will be the impact of this in the US?

EDIT: After digesting this story some more, I guess the transition will occur over the next nine years? The really pathetic thing about this is that even the Russian Ruble will be in the new basket of currencies, along with gold -- but from what I'm reading no US dollars at all, 0 US dollars in that new basket of currencies.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 05 Oct 2009, 22:37:53, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby RonMN » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:37:20

The impact? Hard to say with a time frame of 9 years...yet again, global panic flight away from the dollar could begin tonight. I guess we'll have to wait & see (watch what happens to gold & oil prices).
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby thuja » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:40:00

This has been in the works for quite some time.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby dissident » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:44:12

The tone of this article makes it appear more like sensationalism than serious journalism. The "cabal" that the US will "fight" has the right to do whatever it wants. God did not select the US dollar as the basis of oil trading. If the US plans to run $2000 billion annual deficits and print money like Pancho Villa then other countries would be plain retarded not to drop it and fast.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:47:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'T')he impact? Hard to say with a time frame of 9 years...yet again, global panic flight away from the dollar could begin tonight. I guess we'll have to wait & see (watch what happens to gold & oil prices).


If the plan is for the whole world to shun the dollar, then when we buy oil we're competing against a much stronger basket of currencies (which we won't be a part of). Wouldn't this mean a doubling of what Americans pay for oil?

And, since Arab states will no longer be flush with dollars, they won't be buying our treasurys. If I'm overreacting, feel free to calm me down.. but this strikes me as a major deflation bodyblow to the US.. followed by massive inflation when the Arabs stop loaning us money (or just as bad, loans denominated in the new world currency).
Last edited by Sixstrings on Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:48:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby thuja » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:48:11

Yeah there have been numerous factors for why the rest of the world wants to get off the dollar- rampant spending being one of them. The others include egalitarianism, long standing anger towards American "imperialism", hedging amongst numerous currencies so as to avert risk, etc.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby dissident » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:50:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient.


What a cheap propaganda lie. China's growth is industrial (not only but relative to the US) while the US growth is financial bubble based and includes something called the "service industry". Given the amount of fossil fuel consumption in the US per capita compared to China, it and its sycophants in the UK media simply have no credibility when making such complaints.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:53:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')hina uses more oil incrementally than the US because its growth is less energy efficient.


What a cheap propaganda lie. China's growth is industrial (not only but relative to the US) while the US growth is financial bubble based and includes something called the "service industry". Given the amount of fossil fuel consumption in the US per capita compared to China, it and its sycophants in the UK media simply have no credibility when making such complaints.


And where does the output of China's industry go?

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Arabs Plot to Drop the Dollar

Unread postby AlexdeLarge » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 19:59:42

Headline at Drudge

The demise of the dollar
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar-1798175.html

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.


Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.


Thank God we have Obama........mmmmm, mmmmm, mmmmm ! :)
He is busy with more important things like....the Olympics, and pissing off the Dalai Lama

Obama breaks precedent by not meeting Dalai Lama
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091005/ts_nm/us_usa_obama_dalailama
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Re: Arabs Plot to Drop the Dollar

Unread postby Cloud9 » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 20:54:00

This ought to be fun to watch. Anybody making bets on $400 oil?
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Re: Arabs Plot to Drop the Dollar

Unread postby Revi » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 20:58:00

I don't know about $400 oil, but the price of silver went up 50 cents today. Was it because of this news?

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
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Re: Arabs Plot to Drop the Dollar

Unread postby patience » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 20:59:54

Quote from the article:
".... may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years."

As someone said at Tickerforum, 9 years could be a long time... Or not.

Timetables have a distressing way of changing when you least expect it.
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Re: Arabs Plot to Drop the Dollar

Unread postby patience » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:06:16

Revi,

I read somewhere that the Chinese are buying PM's on the dips, effectively putting a "floor" under the prices. Add that to this shift away from the dollar, and you could have a rise in PM's all right. I wondr how much the central banks will want to put into manipulating the PM prices? If CB's are selling, I'll bet that China is buying.
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby Revi » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:18:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RonMN', 'T')he impact? Hard to say with a time frame of 9 years...yet again, global panic flight away from the dollar could begin tonight. I guess we'll have to wait & see (watch what happens to gold & oil prices).


It's already happening. Silver is up 50 cents today:

http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
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BREAKING - Arabs plot to drop USD in oil transactions

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:20:02

Breaking, via Drudge and the Independent (UK):

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he demise of the dollar

In a graphic illustration of the new world order, Arab states have launched secret moves with China, Russia and France to stop using the US currency for oil trading

By Robert Fisk

Tuesday, 6 October 2009

Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars.

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.

The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.
...

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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby Carlhole » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:20:42

According to another article in the Independent, the Chinese want this to happen gradually over the next decade.

The Independent

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..It is also easy to see why China would like a world trading system that is underpinned by other currencies as well as the dollar. For the past decade Beijing has been recycling the proceeds of its giant national trade surplus into purchases of US government bonds and other dollar-denominated assets. China too stands to make a significant loss if the value of the dollar falls. For China, however, the timing is much more sensitive. Beijing needs to reduce its dollar holdings, but if it does so too quickly it will bring about the very devaluation it fears. This explains why Chinese officials appear to want this transition to take place gradually over the next decade.

But the significance of this development goes much further. Since the end of the Second World War the dollar has been the bedrock of world trade. The pre-eminence of the American currency flowed naturally from the economic dominance of the US. Virtually everyone traded with America so it made sense to use their currency.

But the US is not the dominant power that it once was. The financial crisis has left it hobbled with significant government and household debts and sharply reduced prospects for growth. Developing nations such as China, Brazil and India, on the other hand, have weathered the economic storm significantly better. So while this latest proposal is born of financial calculation, it is also a reflection of a new economic world order.
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Re: BREAKING - Arabs plot to drop USD in oil transactions

Unread postby Maddog78 » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:21:28

This now the 3rd thread on this.
Clearly a big deal, especially on PO. :)
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Re: BREAKING - Arabs plot to drop USD in oil transactions

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:25:17

I swear, I didn't see the other two. :)
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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 21:31:11

I almost forgot...

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Re: Drudge red alert: ARABS PLOT TO DROP DOLLAR

Unread postby Sixstrings » Mon 05 Oct 2009, 22:50:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'I') almost forgot...


Oh ya, I miss the old Drudge siren.. I edited your siren gif into my OP.

3 threads on this? Mine was first.. what got me worked up was Drudge did one of those red "developing" headlines at first, the kind that has no link or any info.

When he finally linked a story, it was this Independent piece.. to be honest I thought some kind of *official* word had come down about this, but after thinking about this Independent story some more I think maybe sirens and red alerts are overkill. From what I understand, the Independent does have a history of over the top Doommongering when it comes to America. Also there's nobody quoted on record in this piece and no official announcements from the governments involved.

And, let's face it.. it's 9 years off. The Chinese don't want to cause a sudden dollar crash as that would devalue their current dollar holdings. But they do want out of dollars (along with the whole world it seems), so the idea is a slow transition over a decade.

What this all comes down to is something we already knew.. there will be no green shoots and no return to business as usual. Even if we pull off a semi-spectacular recovery, this looming dollar dump will just smack us right back down again.

Think about it.. Americans simply CANNOT pay what Europeans pay for gas (can you imagine $12 or $15 a gallon?).

I guess the coming days will tell whether there's legs to this story or if the Independent was just being sensationalist.
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