Peak Oil
Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Don't fly: "Boeing 737 unsafe"

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.
Post a reply

Don't fly: "Boeing 737 unsafe"

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 02:57:36

This is breaking news on sky.com

Another BS story along with the UK terror plot to scare or inconvenience people so they won't fly. Why don't they just come out and admit Peak Oil. Can't we handle the truth.

PS: Maybe this should have gone in the news section but I think psychology is appropriate.
User avatar
Madpaddy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri 25 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 04:13:10

Seeing as control of people by fear rather than economics or reason seems to be the technique de-jour:

How do you scare people out of their cars?

I thought the lone random snipers shooting people in cars was a good start....
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Lighthouse » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 04:49:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', 'S')eeing as control of people by fear rather than economics or reason seems to be the technique de-jour:

How do you scare people out of their cars?

I thought the lone random snipers shooting people in cars was a good start....


When I did my 737 rating in 1996 there was a bulletin from the German Luftfahtsbundesamt warning about malfunction in the rudder system of the 737. As far as I remember this fault was suspected being responsible for 7 crashes (I memory serves me right) in the 90's.

There were also several AD's (Airworthiness Directive) issued by the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) as far as I remember the last one late 2002.

We were trained to "fly around the problem" using specific procedures to overcome the loss of the rudder should we encounter problems with the system. However I only flew the 737 in the simulator and admit that I'm not totally up to date wit the issue.
I am a sarcastic cynic. Some say I'm an asshole. Now that we have that out of the way ...
User avatar
Lighthouse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 02 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 06:20:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'W')e were trained to "fly around the problem" using specific procedures to overcome the loss of the rudder should we encounter problems with the system.


Reminds me of the chap who had his leg bitten off by a tiger (in Africa?) and told to favour the other leg.....

In order to reinforce the public perception, Air/Sky Marshals, instead of being there to prevent terrorism should say the following phrases in a loud unsubtle voice...

(a) I hope we don't get hijacked

(b) I hope the wings don't fall off

(c) Hey look, this plane is very old

Etc.
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby rogerhb » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 06:43:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'W')hen I did my 737 rating in 1996 there was a bulletin from the German Luftfahtsbundesamt warning about malfunction in the rudder system of the 737.


Yes, but what did you get up to in your Cessna?

Lighthouse learning to fly
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby NeoPeasant » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 17:24:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rogerhb', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lighthouse', 'W')e were trained to "fly around the problem" using specific procedures to overcome the loss of the rudder should we encounter problems with the system.


Reminds me of the chap who had his leg bitten off by a tiger (in Africa?) and told to favour the other leg.....

In order to reinforce the public perception, Air/Sky Marshals, instead of being there to prevent terrorism should say the following phrases in a loud unsubtle voice...

(a) I hope we don't get hijacked

(b) I hope the wings don't fall off

(c) Hey look, this plane is very old

Etc.


Maybe they could fill the travel agencies with pictures of airline disasters like the travel agency in "The Truman Show"
The battle to preserve our lifestyle has already been lost. The battle to preserve our lives is just beginning.
NeoPeasant
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue 12 Oct 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Zardoz » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 19:06:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'T')his is breaking news on sky.com

No sign of it. What are you talking about? Link?
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
User avatar
Zardoz
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 6323
Joined: Fri 02 Dec 2005, 04:00:00
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 19:09:40

Sorry,

I've been away all day.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 02,00.html
User avatar
Madpaddy
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri 25 Jun 2004, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Lighthouse » Mon 21 Aug 2006, 19:56:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'S')orry,

I've been away all day.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 02,00.html


I checked the AD's for the 737 series. The last two out of 486 are:

2005-23-17 12/21/2005 Clamp assembly and the wires behind the P15 refuel panel

2002-20-07 R1 11/12/2002 Rudder control system

Source: FAA

And I found my amended checklist to fly around the problem:

--> UNCOMMANDED RUDDER CHECKLIST <--

Condition: Uncommanded rudder pedal displacement or pedal kicks.

AUTOPILOT (if engaged). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DISENGAGE
Maintain control of the airplane with all available flight controls. If
roll is uncontrollable, immediately reduce pitch/angle of attack and
increase airspeed. Do not attempt to maintain altitude until control
is recovered.

AUTOTHROTTLE (if engaged). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DISENGAGE
Verify thrust is symmetrical.

YAW DAMPER SWITCH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .OFF

RUDDER TRIM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .CENTER

RUDDER PEDALS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .FREE & CENTER
Use maximum force including a combined effort of both pilots, if
required to free and center the rudder pedals.

If rudder pedal position or movement is not normal and the condition is not
the result of rudder trim:

SYSTEM B FLIGHT
CONTROL SWITCH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .STBY RUD

A slight rudder deflection may remain, but continued rudder pedal
pressure may help maintain an in-trim condition.

Sufficient directional control is available on landing using differential
braking and nose wheel steering.

Crosswind capability may be reduced.

Do not use autobrakes.

Consider checking rudder freedom of movement at a safe altitude using
slow rudder inputs while in the landing configuration and at approach
speed.

If condition was the result of rudder trim or environmental factors:

YAW DAMPER SWITCH . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .ON
Accomplish the normal DESCENT - APPROACH and LANDING checklists."
I am a sarcastic cynic. Some say I'm an asshole. Now that we have that out of the way ...
User avatar
Lighthouse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 02 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Etalon » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 18:04:57

Any idea what is causing this? I assume from this, the 737 is not fly by wire, but uses hydraulicly assisted controls.. is the hydraulic assist messing up then?

Sounds pretty scary, esp at takeoff! At altitude, you would have enough time and spare power to try using differential thrust, I would imagine.
Etalon
Peat
Peat
 
Posts: 106
Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2005, 03:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby rogerhb » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 18:14:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Etalon', 'A')ny idea what is causing this?


Don't forget good old

corrosian
metal fatigue
wear and tear
MTBF
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand, wrong answers." - Henry Louis Mencken
User avatar
rogerhb
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 4727
Joined: Mon 06 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Smalltown New Zealand
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Lighthouse » Wed 23 Aug 2006, 20:14:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Etalon', 'A')ny idea what is causing this? I assume from this, the 737 is not fly by wire, but uses hydraulicly assisted controls.. is the hydraulic assist messing up then?

Sounds pretty scary, esp at takeoff! At altitude, you would have enough time and spare power to try using differential thrust, I would imagine.


We crashed twice when our simulator instructor put us up to the task. I was acting as 1st officer and the pilot in command was an experienced 737 captain.

btw even flight-crews which much more experience crashed and some of them were not in the simulator.

The above procedures reduce the risk of a crash if you have enough altitude.

FAA identified a possible cause and Boeing did a redesign of the system:

Image
I am a sarcastic cynic. Some say I'm an asshole. Now that we have that out of the way ...
User avatar
Lighthouse
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1290
Joined: Thu 02 Mar 2006, 04:00:00
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby lotrfan55345 » Sat 26 Aug 2006, 23:32:47

737 are being phased out now a-days anyway.. with a320's and similar.
lotrfan55345
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Minneapolis / Pittsburgh
Top

Re: Boeing 737 unsafe

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 28 Aug 2006, 10:07:58

Oh please.

I'm safer in an airplane than my own car.

Heck, I'm more likely to drown than be killed in an aircrash.

Terrorism is nonsense. Compare the odds of being killed by a terrorist to that of being killed by a jealous ex-lover.

Personally, I'd rather hang out with Osama than some of my ex-girlfriends...
"www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Tyler_JC
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 5438
Joined: Sat 25 Sep 2004, 03:00:00
Location: Boston, MA
Top
Post a reply

Return to Medical Issues Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest



cron