[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'L')et's see if I have this right, the National Socialist Green Libertarian Party!!

www.nazi.org

I probably mixed it up though lol.

[killJOY]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nybody else here a Green?

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Socialism doesnt work.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Socialism doesnt work.

[EdF]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', ' ')"lots of good stuff"

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', '
')Socialism doesnt work.

[I_Like_Plants]

SpecOp those texas co-ops running the fone and water are probably a lot closer to socialism than anything Stalin or Mao accomplished.

Libraries are socialist also, and even though doctors before the nighmarish HMOs etc were self-employed, the ethics they follow make them socialist - no real doctor will turn away someone in need, and your old country doctors then, and now, will accept what the patient can pay. There are country doctors even today, in the US, who get paid from time to time in chickens.

It's only the oil orgy that has allowed huge "communist" or "socialist" mega-civilizations to form, that's about to be corrected.

[Z]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')ocialism gives no incentive to excel, no desire to be the best in your field because theres no real recognition of such acheivements.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', 'S')pecOp those texas co-ops running the fone and water are probably a lot closer to socialism than anything Stalin or Mao accomplished.

Libraries are socialist also, and even though doctors before the nighmarish HMOs etc were self-employed, the ethics they follow make them socialist - no real doctor will turn away someone in need, and your old country doctors then, and now, will accept what the patient can pay. There are country doctors even today, in the US, who get paid from time to time in chickens.

It's only the oil orgy that has allowed huge "communist" or "socialist" mega-civilizations to form, that's about to be corrected.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'B')ut from a big picture standpoint, why should I go to college for 4 years when I'll end up doing just as well as the guy who dropped out from HS? Theres no real incentive to strive to be better, but rather to only meet quota.

[dissimulo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')n what way is socialised energy and phone service different from socialised medicine? I'm not sure what you mean by "true socialism." Socialism has a variety of meanings.

[I_Like_Plants]

Ludi you make a living like a real human being, you get enough to live on and the real reward is a sense of pride and of sharing, knowing you're good at what you do, etc. I think that's the original idea behind socialism, that if you make sure everyone has enough to eat etc then you still get excellence because people work for the enjoyment of it, pride, sharing with their community, etc. Those are real Folkish values!

[ubercrap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I')'ll have to agree PMS. We're pretty much screwed to walk the failing path of Socialism/Communism.

Fortunately, if we do go down that path hopefully we'll fall flat on our asses quickly enough to rebound and end up better off then before.

[pilferage]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'F')act is, Socialism is for the lazy. I couldnt, in good faith, support a system that supports laziness and half assed work ethics.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissimulo', '
')
I'm assuming that, despite the fact that your services are provided by a co-op, you still pay in proportion to what you use. This is very different than socialized medicine plans where taxes pay for what you use.

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', ' ')I think that's the original idea behind socialism, that if you make sure everyone has enough to eat etc then you still get excellence because people work for the enjoyment of it, pride, sharing with their community, etc.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')
Problem is, it looks like for a lot of people that isn't enough motivation.

[I_Like_Plants]

Ludi, Doly, you're both on the right track. And, most people don't have to be highly motivated in a real Folkish socialism, you can just coast along, or not, as you choose. Some will just coast along, some will work extra-hard, most will work fairly hard.

And I like Doly's saying that once programmers had come up with their solution for this or that, it "makes sense" to share it for free because it increases their prestige, etc. That's how gift economies work. That's how people living decently, with a good feeling of tribe and of Folk, live.

[dissimulo]

I think it is worth considering the many jobs that nobody (or almost nobody) loves. For example, the many jobs we rely on illegals to do. Or, jobs like sewage workers, garbage collectors, roofers, etc. Many of the most unpleasant and most important jobs only get done because they provide a better wage than jobs that require comparable skills. I'm sure there must be exceptions, but I'm guessing no one becomes a garbage man, or a septic tank cleaner, or even a fast food worker out of a desire to "be the best" .

Without incentive (such as deperation for income) I'm not sure these jobs would get done.

[Specop_007]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pilferage', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'F')act is, Socialism is for the lazy. I couldnt, in good faith, support a system that supports laziness and half assed work ethics.