by AlexdeLarge » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 01:17:36
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'I') still see CNBC has those economists on that say by the second quarter we should be coming out of the recession. I don't know where they got their degree but they sure aren't seeing the economy that I am. If we do come out of this at all, we are talking years and not months.
Pretty talking heads. Out only to sell products to the masses. Even if they are aware of the truth, they would not tell the public. They are just salespeople.
Viddy well, little brother. Viddy well.
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AlexdeLarge
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by ReverseEngineer » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 04:52:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ache', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')More ominously however, he concluded that there would come a time when the system's inner contradictions of infinite growth versus finite capacity will no longer reconcile giving rise to a spontaneous will for change.
Would you care to provide some links to where Marx ever mentioned infinite growth versus finite capacity
I couldn't find that with a Google search, but I did find this
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')ictitious capital is that proportion of capital which cannot be simultaneously converted into existing use-values. It is an invention which is absolutely necessary for the growth of real capital, it constitutes the symbol of confidence in the future. It is a necessary but costly fiction, and sooner or later it crashes to earth.
Marx did not fully elaborate his views on credit and fictitious capital before his death. What he had written on the subject is presented by Engels in Volume III of Capital, particularly Part V. For example:
“... a large portion of this money-capital is always necessarily purely fictitious, that is, a title to value – just as paper money. In so far as money functions in the circuit of capital, it constitutes indeed, for a moment, money-capital; ... it exists only in the form of claims to capital. With the assumption made, the accumulation of these claims arises from actual accumulation, that is, from the transformation of the value of commodity-capital, etc., into money; but nevertheless the accumulation of these claims or titles as such differs from the actual accumulation from which it arises ....
“Prima facie loan capital always exists in the form of money, later as a claim to money, since the money in which it originally exists is now in the hands of the borrower in actual money-form. For the lender it has been transformed into a claim to money, into a title of ownership. The same mass of actual money can, therefore, represent very different masses of money-capital. ... With the growth of material wealth the class of money-capitalists grows; on the one hand, the number and the wealth of retiring capitalists, rentiers, increases; and on the other hand, the development of the credit system is promoted, thereby increasing the number of bankers, money-lenders, financiers, etc. With the development of the available money-capital, the quantity of interest-bearing paper, government securities, stocks, etc., also grows as we have previously shown. However, at the same time the demand for available money-capital also grows, the jobbers, who speculate with this paper, playing a prominent role on the money-market. If all the purchases and sales of this paper were only an expression of actual investments of capital, it would be correct to say that they could have no influence on the demand for loan capital, since when A sells his paper, he draws exactly as much money as B puts into the paper. But even if the paper itself exists though not the capital (at least not as money-capital) originally represented by it, it always creates pro tanto a new demand for such money-capital..” [Capital Volume III, Chapter 32]
Throughout its history, capitalism has experienced its business cycles. Roughly every ten years, the mass of fictitious capital grows while trade is good, and then, as the capacity of the workers to sustain the mass of hangers on reaches its limits, the downturn gathers momentum and fictitious capital is wiped out, and the cycle begins again.
Basically it defines all of Capitalism as a massive Ponzi Scheme, which it is of course. You can read further about the boom and bust cycles prior to the Great Depression and the aftermath of that inclucing WWII and Bretton Woods here:
http://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/f/i.htm
Though the words "finite" and "infinite aren't used, you can read it in the sutext of the principles here. The idea that you keep creating new money infinitely until the real base no longer supports the fictitious money, which is the finite limit to the growth.
Marxist economics actually are more accurate than Keynesian Economics, its not the principles that are so bad, its the general application that gets screwed up. However, you could make the case it doesn't screw up as awfully and with so much regularity as Capitalism does.
Be it known here for those that don't, I am NOT a Marxist or Communist, though you find me defending some of this stuff often enough. I'm a Tribalist who does not believe in money or property ownership. Large states under any system are bound to be corrupted. Given you DO have a large state though and have to manage a downspin, Marxist economics are WAY better than Keynesian economics.
Reverse Engineer
by InToWishin » Wed 24 Dec 2008, 16:01:30
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '[')b]Secret donor gives $1 million to Burnsville fire victims
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')ozens of families left homeless after a fire at a Burnsville apartment complex have an early Christmas present waiting for them — a $1 million donation.
An anonymous donor contributed the money Tuesday to a community fund set up by the Goodman Group, the Chaska-based firm that owns and manages the Burncliff Apartments.
The contribution averages more than $15,000 for each of the 64 households left homeless by Monday's blaze, which displaced nearly 200 people.
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_11299848?source=rss We need a bucket brigade of anonymous million dollar donations.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')u]
U.S. Initial Jobless Claims Rise to 26-Year HighInitial jobless claims increased more than forecast to 586,000, the most since November 1982, from a revised 556,000 the prior week, the Labor Department said today in Washington.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')u]
TOPWRAP 6-U.S. falls deeper into recessionZavvi, the CDs, DVDs, gaming and books retailer, became the third British high street victim of the crisis in less than 24 hours.