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Death Is An Outrage

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Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Schadenfreude » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 03:28:04

Death Is An Outrage

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Robert Freitas', 'W')hile you were reading this sentence, a dozen people just died, worldwide. There. Another dozen people have perished. I think this is an outrage. I want to tell you why I think so, and what nanomedicine can do to help.

Figure 1: Worldwide Death Toll in 2001

Let's look at the dimensions of the human holocaust that we call "natural death."

The death toll in the Year 2001 was worst in India. Almost 9 million casualties. The bodies were piled nearly as high in China. The United States fell in third, with 2.4 million fatalities. 21 nations lost over half a million lives, each. These 21 countries represented all cultures, races, creeds, and continents. The human death toll in the Year 2001 from all 227 nations on Earth was nearly 55 million people, of which about 52 million were not directly caused by human action, that is, not accidents, or suicides, or war. They were "natural" deaths.

Figure 2: Natural Disasters

Even the most widely recognized greatest disasters in human history pale in comparison to natural death. For example, the typhoon that struck Bangladesh in 1970 washed away a million lives. In 1232 AD, Genghis Khan burned the Persian city of Herat to the ground. It took his Mongol horde an entire week to slaughter the 1.6 million inhabitants. The Plague took 15 million per year, World War II, 9 million per year, for half a decade each. The worldwide influenza pandemic of 1918 exterminated less than 22 million people – not even half the annual casualties from natural death. But natural death took 52 million lives last year. We can only conclude that natural death is measurably the greatest catastrophe humankind has ever faced...


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t is as if in the Year 2001, someone took out a giant broom and swept up all the physical assets of human civilization into a cosmic trash can, and then threw it all away. That's $100 trillion dollars of financial assets, real estate, and durable goods. Gone. And then in 2002, the giant broom sweeps again. Another $100 trillion dollars of human capital is destroyed, or three times larger than the $33 trillion dollars of annual economic activity represented by world GDP. Then it happens again in 2003.

But the economic disaster caused by natural death is even worse, if you go back through history. Since the modern human species first emerged, perhaps 25 millennia ago, 34 billion people have ever walked the Earth, and 28 billion of us have already died. The equivalent total information waste is more than 28 billion books, enough to fill almost 2000 Libraries of Congress. The equivalent total economic waste is about $60 thousand trillion dollars, enough to rebuild our current tangible civilization 600 times over. If you carry the tally back a million years, to the very dawn of man, all these figures about double. Natural death is a disaster of unprecedented proportions in human history...



Bootstrapping Our Way To An Ageless Future

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')iomedical gerontologist Aubrey de Grey expects many people alive today to live to 1000 years of age and to avoid age-related health problems even at that age. In this excerpt from his just-published, much-awaited book, Ending Aging, he explains how.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..I'm now going to switch briefly from science to the history of science, or more precisely the history of technology.

It was well before recorded history that people began to take an interest in the possibility of flying: indeed, this may be a desire almost as ancient as the desire to live forever. Yet, with the notable but sadly unreproduced exception of Daedalus and Icarus, no success in this area was achieved until about a century ago. (If we count balloons then we must double that, but really only airships—balloons that can control their direction of travel reasonably well—should be counted, and they only emerged at around the same time as the aircraft.) Throughout the previous few centuries, engineers from Leonardo on devised ways to achieve controlled powered flight, and we must presume that they believed their designs to be only a few decades (at most) from realisation. But they were wrong.

Ever since the Wright brothers flew at Kitty Hawk, however, things have been curiously different. Having mastered the basics, aviation engineers seem to have progressed to ever greater heights (literally as well as metaphorically!) at an almost serenely smooth pace. To pick a representative selection of milestones: Lindbergh flew the Atlantic 24 years after the first powered flight occurred, the first commercial jetliner (the Comet) debuted 22 years after that, and the first supersonic airliner (Concorde) followed after a further 20 years.

This stark contrast between fundamental breakthroughs and incremental refinements of those breakthroughs is, I would contend, typical of the history of technological fields. Further, I would argue that it's not surprising: both psychologically and scientifically, bigger advances are harder to estimate the difficulty of.

I mention all this, of course, because of what it tells us about the likely future progress of life extension therapies. Just as people were wrong for centuries about how hard it as to fly but eventually cracked it, we've been wrong since time immemorial about how hard aging is to combat but we'll eventually crack it too. But just as people have been pretty reliably correct about how to make better and better aircraft once they had the first one, we can expect to be pretty reliably correct about how to repair the damage of aging more and more comprehensively once we can do it a little.

That's not to say it'll be easy, though. It'll take time, just as it took time to get from the Wright Flyer to Concorde. And that is why, if you want to live to 1000, you can count yourself lucky that you're a human and not a mouse. Let me take you through the scenario, step by step...


I bet PenultimateManStanding will be the only PO.com poster to make it to 1000 years of age. But he won't be bragging about it on that marvelous birthday; Oh no! He'll be talking about something completely off-topic.
Last edited by Schadenfreude on Mon 14 Apr 2008, 04:14:57, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Schadenfreude » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 04:11:18

It seems pretty obvious that making human aging and death a medical ailment of the past would be a staggering disaster for the planet unless you also cured the outrageous disease of human birth.

But, I don't see why the complex chemistry and physics of how living cells function and work together necessarily has to be forever beyond human understanding and manipulation either. Is there some basic reason why people will ever be able to manipulate cellular aging? The general pattern is: Nature creates it. Human Beings copy it and refine it, adapt it - no matter the complexity.

Seems like this sort of technology, if it were ever developed and deployed, would truly demark the rich from the poor forever after. The long-lived would also have to constantly protect themselves from the short-lived (but jealous). What would happen to human society if it indeed became possible for certain privileged or powerful individuals to live for hundreds of years?

I can't see anything good arising from it.

Maybe Life would become a defined game with defined rules. You can stick around as long as you play it well.
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby WildRose » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 05:07:59

Well, the extension of lifespan is what we've done over the past 100 years with penicillin and a long list of pharmaceuticals. We don't have the loss of life from influenza that we used to have (at least not yet!), and elderly people with diagnoses of 15 serious ailments can undergo surgery and leave the hospital yet again. Is life sweeter when it's longer? I guess as long as we're enjoying it, it is. But I agree with you, it wouldn't do the planet any good; if people could live to 1000, how many years of their lives would they be able to reproduce?

I wonder what would happen to the "generation gap"? And imagine reading someone's autobiography!
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Narz » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 06:26:55

No, no, no!! We have to increase the death rate* not make people live forever!

*of other people! :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 07:37:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Schadenfreude', '
')I bet PenultimateManStanding will be the only PO.com poster to make it to 1000 years of age. But he won't be bragging about it on that marvelous birthday; Oh no! He'll be talking about something completely off-topic.
Right, I should be talking about Genghis Khan or Kitty Hawk or the Biomedical gerontologist Aubrey de Grey. :lol:
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 12:57:18

I could not handle living 1,000 years.

Hell, I think 100 would be boring. I plan on kicking the bucket somewhere in the ~75 range.

These futurists need to stick to writing science fiction. We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity. We may have reached it already.

I'm generally optimistic about most kinds of technology but on this particular topic, I think they are pushing it. We could see average lifespans creep into the 80s but I just don't see us moving beyond that point. How would we support these people?
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 13:37:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity.


After that biological limit is reached you'd download your wetware into some silicon hardware.

Be sure to keep a backup copy of yourself somewhere safe in case of a crash, and then off you could go again. :)
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 14:00:26

Zardoz should weigh in here. After the dieoff there will come two races, one that is a small elite that doesn't reproduce because they are immortal, and two, the miserable remnants of mortals who are screened off from the immortals by a force field.

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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 14:07:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity.


After that biological limit is reached you'd download your wetware into some silicon hardware.

Be sure to keep a backup copy of yourself somewhere safe in case of a crash, and then off you could go again. :)


8O

I'd prefer not to be around when the computer-people start controlling things.
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 14:10:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity.


After that biological limit is reached you'd download your wetware into some silicon hardware.

Be sure to keep a backup copy of yourself somewhere safe in case of a crash, and then off you could go again. :)


8O

I'd prefer not to be around when the computer-people start controlling things.


It depends. Will they be Mac computer-people or Windows-Vista computer-people?
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Ferretlover » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 14:19:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Z')ardoz should weigh in here. After the dieoff there will come two races, one that is a small elite that doesn't reproduce because they are immortal, and two, the miserable remnants of mortals who are screened off from the immortals by a force field.
Image


PMS, you forgot all those hybrid people that will be created, ie: the recent cloning of human and cow thingys!
Last edited by Ferretlover on Mon 14 Apr 2008, 16:01:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby dbruning » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:08:41

They need to get their priorities sorted out.

First figure out a way to tap into the multitude of dimensions some think exist....and how to send our excess population into a bunch of those worlds (maybe the ones where we got wiped out by some natural disaster).

THEN worry about something that makes the single biggest problem the planet has 10-20X worse.

Or maybe a satellite with a raygun that makes human orgasm lower fertility :P
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:11:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '
')
PMS, you forgot all those hybrid people that will be created, ie: the recent cloning of human and cows!
Ah, what do we call these creatures? hows? cumans? humows? hattle? huttle? And what if we cross humans and skunks? humunks? What if we cross dogs and cats? You drop them and they chase their tails while landing on their paws? What do you get if you cross an elephant and a rhinoceros? Elifino!
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:11:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Z')ardoz should weigh in here. After the dieoff there will come two races, one that is a small elite that doesn't reproduce because they are immortal, and two, the miserable remnants of mortals who are screened off from the immortals by a force field.
Image


PMS, you forgot all those hybrid people that will be created, ie: the recent cloning of human and cows!


When humans get regenerated as cows, will it be done in accordance with the Hindu religion?
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:24:13

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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:34:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity.


After that biological limit is reached you'd download your wetware into some silicon hardware.

Be sure to keep a backup copy of yourself somewhere safe in case of a crash, and then off you could go again. :)


"Damn, my wetware download crashed the system again. Has anyone seen that USB with my personality backup on it?"

Image
:)
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:39:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
It depends. Will they be Mac computer-people or Windows-Vista computer-people?


Well, I'm at a liberal university in a painfully trendy hipster neighborhood...

So they would absolutely be Mac People.

Or I guess they would call themselves iPeople.

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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 15:49:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', ' ')We aren't going to live forever because there is a genetic limit to human longevity.


After that biological limit is reached you'd download your wetware into some silicon hardware.

Be sure to keep a backup copy of yourself somewhere safe in case of a crash, and then off you could go again. :)


"Damn, my wetware download crashed the system again. Has anyone seen that USB with my personality backup on it?"

Image


THATs a good one. laughing laughing laughing ROFL
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Ferretlover » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 16:05:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '
')Or I guess they would call themselves iPeople.
Image


Ahha! I knew it! Pod people-PMS also forgot to include all the (Invasion of the Body Snatchers) Pod People.
Gotta love those aliens :P
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Re: Death Is An Outrage

Unread postby Novus » Mon 14 Apr 2008, 16:06:28

If they want to eliminate death they should do it Matrix style. Find a way to download all human brains into a computer. The computer would be so fast that it would give each person a thousand years of memories in two minutes. The [s]suicide[/s] er new life cocoon would then depolymerize the body to power the system. The last person in gets to hit the delete key.

Ok who else wants to play God?
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