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PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

Dealing with the guilt

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby SevenTen » Mon 28 May 2007, 01:15:56

Guilt is often the penance we have been trained to give ourselves. You don't feel guilty because you cheated on your wife, you feel guilty because you think that somehow absolves you. But you knew that cheating would hurt her if she found out and decided to do it anyway.

Understand the consequences of your actions, check with your moral code, evaluate your circumstances, make hard choices, act. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Guilt is wasted energy.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby kochevnik » Mon 28 May 2007, 01:24:43

Way, way down deep inside - I don't think it is guilt.

I think it's fear.

Fear that because of a lucky stroke of the universe, you got to be one of the lucky privileged few who has everything - and fear because if PO is for real, you're going to lose that privileged status and end up just like those poor schmucks in some poor thrid world shithole you see Anglina Jolie zooming around on the gossip pages - when she isn't busy giving Brad a blowjob.

Admit it - you watch those poor people a lot closer now that you found PO was for real don't you ?

I know I do.
"People are just bastards - bastard covered bastards with bastard filling."
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 11:36:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'W')WW wrote,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')a oh god,

I should never post when drunk. I dunno who I was feeling more sorry for, them or myself. I'm out of time now (off to work) but i'll elaborate more when I get back, few points I wanna put across


You are posting drunk at 7:40am. Well done my alcoholic friend. I think your depression may have more to do with your drinking tendencies than with the thoughts of how you personally are f*cking over the third world. Have another drink, just don't make it a gin.


That's one hell of a assumption don't you think? I get drunk once a week at the most, and the reason I was on so late was simply because I finished my bar job at 4am in the morning, came home and had a few drinks, I think I had 5 bottles of stella, and from that I get pretty drunk. I never drink hard liquer. so it was only about 3 hours after I got home I made that post, always takes me a while to wind down after work.

So I'm far from an 'alcoholic' and maybe you should not judge someone you have never met when you have no information to go on. Your post was offensive, uninformed and inaccurate.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 11:38:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kochevnik', 'W')ay, way down deep inside - I don't think it is guilt.

I think it's fear.


It's both, but yeah point taken 100%, that's why I said in my 2nd post of the thread 'I dunno who I felt more sorry for me or them' lol.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 11:47:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Uninspired123', 'l')ol with that kind of mindset you're not going to make it.

:)


This is very true, I need to keep my emphey for me and those close to me and learn to not worry about anyone else on the planet to survive the worst of it, or I do have no chance.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 28 May 2007, 11:47:29

WWW wrote,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')o I'm far from an 'alcoholic' and maybe you should not judge someone you have never met when you have no information to go on. Your post was offensive, uninformed and inaccurate.


You're taking things too seriously. I was having a laugh. If it wasn't for your job, you have to admit being drunk at 740am would be unusual.

BTW, 5 bottles of beer in one sitting would be considered binge drinking.
http://www.kidshealth.org/teen/drug_alc ... drink.html
[quote]Today the generally accepted definition of binge drinking in the United States is the consumption of five or more drinks in a row by men — or four or more drinks in a row by women — at least once in the previous 2 weeks. Heavy binge drinking includes three or more such episodes in 2 weeks.[quote]
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 28 May 2007, 11:52:14

WWW,

I apologise for calling you an alcoholic. As I said before it was not a serious assertion.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 12:01:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('What_Went_Wrong', 'I') think of it this way, if someone offered me a big sum of money for free, but as a result a few family's in a far away country would starve or suffer directly as a result of that, would I take it? Hell no.


I, on the other hand, would take the cash. In fact, I'd take the cash even if the cost were millions of dead.
.


It's a shame that though all this you have lost the last any of your human side, but I fully believe that it's people with your mindset that will last the longest. I envy it, I would love to have no remorse.

where you always such a hardass or did it come from peak oil? (not insulting you man, just an honest question as I really need to grow a set before TSHTF)
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 12:03:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'W')WW,

I apologise for calling you an alcoholic. As I said before it was not a serious assertion.


Oh ok lol. In that case my bad, I guess I should know from other posts you have made your style of humor.

Maybe I should drink more, I might lighten up :)
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby Madpaddy » Mon 28 May 2007, 12:05:33

It's people with attitudes like Jack that have gotten us into this mess. Unfortunately, I do find it hard to argue with alot of his logic.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby What_Went_Wrong » Mon 28 May 2007, 12:09:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Madpaddy', 'I')t's people with attitudes like Jack that have gotten us into this mess. Unfortunately, I do find it hard to argue with alot of his logic.


Same here, but i'm glad he posts to keep us aware of that mind set. I suspect we will meet many jacks in the coming years.

I kinda regretted making this post but i'm really interested to see the responses from everyone.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby Jack » Mon 28 May 2007, 16:45:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('What_Went_Wrong', 'I')t's a shame that though all this you have lost the last any of your human side, but I fully believe that it's people with your mindset that will last the longest. I envy it, I would love to have no remorse.

where you always such a hardass or did it come from peak oil? (not insulting you man, just an honest question as I really need to grow a set before TSHTF)


I developed my attitudes long before I was aware of peak oil; and I will attempt to give an honest answer to your equally honest question.

It comes down to asking yourself hard questions, answering them with complete honesty, and accepting the likely consequences, likewise with complete honesty. The answers will be a function of core beliefs.

Now it's important that the answers be by you alone and for you alone. Discussing the answers is evasion, and will only lead to posturing to please the crowd. No - this is something you do alone, in the dark of night, in the silence at 3 AM.

I had an interesting (to me, at least) exchange with Heineken some months ago. His question to me was how I would react to a starving woman with a baby who showed up on my doorstep and pleaded for milk for her baby. I replied that I would call the existing social services to deal with the problem. He drilled deeper, posing the possibility that there were no such services available. I replied that I would drink the milk while she watched, turn away, and give her nothing.

What Heineken did not realize is that I have asked myself similar questions, and come up with an answer I can live with. So what might be for some a wrenching decision was, for my, already determined.

How does the above apply? If you feed the woman's child, then you will either wind up with an orphan, or you will feed the woman as well. And if you do that, you will probably wind up with further desperate people on your doorstep. You will be overwhelmed. You will die, along with all those who have clustered around you. Since the end result is not acceptable (note those core beliefs), you provide nothing to the child at the beginning.

I encourage you to ask yourself such questions as what you would do if the person you care about most was dying, in terrible pain, and no medical care was available. What would you do if you and another had enough for one (and only one) to survive. How would you react to great need from someone you didn't know? From someone you did know? What are the consequences?

Answer these - not here, not to anyone, but to you and you alone. The list above may suggest other questions. Pursue them. You will notice internal conflicts at first - find them, resolve them.

Another exercise, originally suggested by Aleister Crowley, is to ask yourself why you're doing something - and then follow the thread back to basic motivations. Again, this is for you to do alone, and in complete isolation.

So, you eat breakfast. Why?
To satisfy your hunger. Why?
To end discomfort. Why?
Because being comfortable is good. Why?
Being comfortable reduces stress on the body. Why do this?

And so on, until you reach the deep, core reason for your actions.

So, you decide to send money to help feed a child. Why?
To reduce guilt. Why reduce guilt?
Because....

You get the idea.

This isn't something that can be done in a day, nor a year - nor a decade. But the end result is, in my opinion, well worth the effort. It is not about being a hardass, or tough, or cruel - it is about knowing what you believe in and acting accordingly. Different beliefs will lead to different results - but if they're your beliefs, your true beliefs, then they're no less valid. On the other hand, if they're the result of the latest TV celebrity weeping over the latest cause, then such passing thoughts aren't beliefs at all - and deserve (IMO) no respect whatsoever.

A caution - diligent pursuit of the above is transformative. It can and will change you, in ways that are not entirely predictable.

And if you've read all the foregoing, my compliments on your persistence.

8)
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby emailking » Mon 28 May 2007, 17:23:25

Jack, don't you worry that your clan will see your posts on here? Whether sharing your mindset or not, it would be completely idiotic to be on your side in dark times. Because you'd just as soon, say cook your wife alive than treat her debilitating leg wound.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby Jack » Mon 28 May 2007, 18:26:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emailking', 'J')ack, don't you worry that your clan will see your posts on here? Whether sharing your mindset or not, it would be completely idiotic to be on your side in dark times. Because you'd just as soon, say cook your wife alive than treat her debilitating leg wound.


Emailking, I put nothing in these posts that I don't say to others face-to-face.

Would it be idiotic to be on my side? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

What would you want your wife to do if it was YOU that had the leg wound? What if the wound developed gangrene? If you and your wife had a couple children that you cared about - say, a 12 year old and a 15 year old - and you were dying an inch at a time, with no hope of help, what would you want them to do? Sacrifice themselves to buy you a couple days? Or kill you and put you in the stew pot?

No - don't answer that. Ask yourself that some night. Stare up at the ceiling, listen to your wife's quiet breathing, and ask what you would want her to do. Then, after you answer that, determine why you chose that answer.

Now ask what you would do if the positions were reversed. Ask yourself what she would want. Ask yourself why.

Again - don't answer me or anyone else. Public answers don't count. What matters is the answer you give yourself, the ones nobody but you knows about. And the "why" matters more than the answer.

Now. Ask why anyone would want YOU around. Again, don't tell me, I don't need to know. But it's something you need to know about yourself.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby emailking » Mon 28 May 2007, 18:32:45

Fine, I won't answer you. But you need to ask yourself these questions as well. What would YOU want your wife to do? No don't answer that. I already know the answer. Since you only care about yourself and only care about others to the extent that they can assist you (happiness, pleasure, fetch the water and milk the cows, whatever) I think it's pretty clear you would try to convince them to help you, as opposed to selflessly sacrificing yourself.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby keehah » Mon 28 May 2007, 21:28:35

Double post. What no delete?
Last edited by keehah on Mon 28 May 2007, 21:30:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dealing with the guilt

Unread postby keehah » Mon 28 May 2007, 21:29:22

Wow www, don't know what is was in your post but it sure did bring out the sociopaths! Don't quite know what it was but you must have had a sentence or two that rubbed against a few sociopath denial mechanisms. Maybe it was just bravado.

I feel much the same way right now. Working in the denial industry, an alt energy company, and looks like I will soon have a job offer in a second denial/alt energy field but one that will give me new skills that will be useful for local lifestyle. (I call them denial industries from an ER/EI perspective.)

Problem is I'll be doing a whole lot of flying again. Not flying was an easy moral choice to make, especially since it is also like going into prison these days.

I am ready to stop being 'a good little German' working for the empire. We who are aware (and have decent preps) don't have an excuse other than cowardice, psychopathic or some such tendencies. As well I have a lifeboat home in a beautiful setting and community (perfect in most ways but for space for gardening) yet I am forced to come back to the big city weekdays for work and sleep listening to the trains and cars.

No leaving the big city and its lifestyle won't save the world but if I can't save the world that does not mean I need to continue killing it as fast as I can and surrounding myself with brain-dead or ego-driven people in an ego driven culture?

You may get something from this, found it linked from Matt's site last week if I recall correctly: http://whatawaytogomovie.com/2007/05/13 ... -practice/

[align=center]So, before you start defendin'
Baby, stop all your pretendin'
I know you know I know
So what's the point in being slow
Let's get the show on the road today
Hey[/align]Image
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