[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow are the Feds going to confiscate gold, Kingcoal. Tell me exactly how they are going to do it.

[Heineken]

Jack, there some very convincing arguments against the feasibility of gold confiscation posted on the Internet.

Some of your points are good, though.

But I really think the whole thing would prove impractical. Impossible, even.

Dealers' records of who bought gold and when would be utterly worthless, since they could not be used to prove that those individuals still owned the gold. Owners could say they lost it, sold it, had it stolen from them, or threw it into the ocean in a fit of madness.

It would take years---or a Big Brother-like dictatorship---to enact the sort of legislation you describe. In the meantime, what would people be doing with their gold? Those who have it in safety deposit boxes would withdraw it and bury it. Many would take it out of the country (as happened in the 1930s). Few if any people would cooperate---and cooperation would be key.

Furthermore, such talk would cause the gold price to skyrocket. It would become more valuable than ever. There'd be a black market for the stuff. There'd be a wave of tremendous generalized fear and panic, accompanied by a perceived or real collapse of the US government, which would cause gold owners to hold on to their gold more tightly than ever. And the dollar would further weaken.

I don't think the government has either the power or the competence to achieve such a feat, not these days.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow are the Feds going to confiscate gold, Kingcoal. Tell me exactly how they are going to do it.

[Micki]

Maybe. But I wonder if they were expecting gold confiscation back in the 30s either or if it took them by surprise.
Anyway, as I see it I can protect myself from confiscation, tax, counterparty risk by holding physical metal and not relying on gold pool accounts etc. Furthermore, the more physical that is removed from the market, the harder it becomes for the big boys to play paper games. So although not addressing exactly the question, I would say, I am concerened enough to withdraw the paper gold and instead put physical in "the sockdrawer".

[Heineken]

Yes, it happened in the 1930s, but the environment and population were very different from what we have today. Gold ownership was common then, for one thing. And the dollar was backed by gold! So you had a relationship between them that no longer exists.

I share your lack of faith in ETFs and safety deposit boxes.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')t the beginning of 1934, 50% of all urban homes with outstanding mortgages were in default.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen Roosevelt was around, America did NOT owe the Chinese $1.6 Trillion. It takes money to implement a new deal. Who will lend us the money?

[hiperhiper]

WOW. Confiscation You guys are getting more paranoid each day, whatever happened to my topic "is gold still undervalued" I think the answer is obvious

I wonder what Mr. bill would say on such outburst of paranoia.

[Micki]

It's normal risk management.
It is high impact low probability. And because it has happened in the past, it needs to be considered again.

[MrBill]

I was trying to stay out of this thread to be honest! ; - )

Confiscation or other draconian measures like capital controls cannot be ruled out as the USA goes bankrupt. They are already passing laws to make renouncing US citizenship (see Trader's Corner) harder and more expensive to give up. And the Patriot Act and anti-money laundering procedures now forced on bank and non-bank financial institutions is as much about controlling offshore financial centers as figthing terrorism. The CFTC and SEC even try to get control over regulation in other countries by for example wanting to supervise the ICE (currently regulated by the FSA) or Rule 144B about that securities can be marketed to US citizens at home or abroad. Someone has to repay the trillions in debt that the USA already owes as well as pay for ongoing unfunded future liabilities. If I was a US taxpayer I would be very nervous. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. At least not legally.

[DantesPeak]

Even during the gold confiscation of the 1930s citizens were allowed to keep 5 ounces. That's $5000. I would expect, if it ever happened, for the cut off to be about $10,000 worth - which may still be 5 ounces when that happens.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') was trying to stay out of this thread to be honest! ; - )

Confiscation or other draconian measures like capital controls cannot be ruled out as the USA goes bankrupt. They are already passing laws to make renouncing US citizenship (see Trader's Corner) harder and more expensive to give up. And the Patriot Act and anti-money laundering procedures now forced on bank and non-bank financial institutions is as much about controlling offshore financial centers as figthing terrorism. The CFTC and SEC even try to get control over regulation in other countries by for example wanting to supervise the ICE (currently regulated by the FSA) or Rule 144B about that securities can be marketed to US citizens at home or abroad. Someone has to repay the trillions in debt that the USA already owes as well as pay for ongoing unfunded future liabilities. If I was a US taxpayer I would be very nervous. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. At least not legally.

[MrBill]

Sorry I was thinking more about capital controls and closing precious metal ETFs than physically hunting for gold bracelets.

Interestingly in many emerging market countries that I have lived, worked and studied is that they have most of the laws you would find elsewhere in place. They are just not enforced very uniformly. However, they come in very handy if you need to prosecute someone for any reason.

Those laws on the books can be conveniently ignored until they are needed. In the Ukraine fully abiding by all tax laws would have resulted (at the time) in paying out 160% of profits in taxes. Clearly not possible. So everyone lived in fear of the taxman, and was happy to pay them under the table.

Poverty and corruption threaten Russia: Medvedev

So any law prohibiting personal ownership of gold, guns or anything else do not need to be enforced, but they can be pulled out if and when you want to make an example of someone. Kind of like homosexuality laws in some Muslim countries. Useful to use against your political opponents.

[vision-master]

Gold Thread.............

Keep arguing.

[Kingcoal]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') was trying to stay out of this thread to be honest! ; - )

Confiscation or other draconian measures like capital controls cannot be ruled out as the USA goes bankrupt. They are already passing laws to make renouncing US citizenship (see Trader's Corner) harder and more expensive to give up. And the Patriot Act and anti-money laundering procedures now forced on bank and non-bank financial institutions is as much about controlling offshore financial centers as figthing terrorism. The CFTC and SEC even try to get control over regulation in other countries by for example wanting to supervise the ICE (currently regulated by the FSA) or Rule 144B about that securities can be marketed to US citizens at home or abroad. Someone has to repay the trillions in debt that the USA already owes as well as pay for ongoing unfunded future liabilities. If I was a US taxpayer I would be very nervous. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. At least not legally.

[NTBKtrader]

Mr. Bill,

From what I am reading renouncing US citizenship seems fairly easy.

A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:

appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
sign an oath of renunciation
Renunciations that do not meet the conditions described above have no legal effect. Because of the provisions of section 349(a)(5), Americans cannot effectively renounce their citizenship by mail, through an agent, or while in the United States. In fact, U.S. courts have held certain attempts to renounce U.S. citizenship to be ineffective on a variety of grounds, as discussed below.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship ... p_776.html


Is the US gov trying to make it harder to 'financially' renounce US citizenship? If so, I didn't really find anything on that. I know the IRS is increasingly going after offshore tax shelters, but that is a different issue in my opinion.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') was trying to stay out of this thread to be honest! ; - )

Confiscation or other draconian measures like capital controls cannot be ruled out as the USA goes bankrupt. They are already passing laws to make renouncing US citizenship (see Trader's Corner) harder and more expensive to give up. And the Patriot Act and anti-money laundering procedures now forced on bank and non-bank financial institutions is as much about controlling offshore financial centers as figthing terrorism. The CFTC and SEC even try to get control over regulation in other countries by for example wanting to supervise the ICE (currently regulated by the FSA) or Rule 144B about that securities can be marketed to US citizens at home or abroad. Someone has to repay the trillions in debt that the USA already owes as well as pay for ongoing unfunded future liabilities. If I was a US taxpayer I would be very nervous. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. At least not legally.

[Micki]

Reportedly published in the Wayne Madsen Report;
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')MR's United Nations sources report that there has been a sudden rush in requests for foreign exchange wire transfer requests from New York City banks. The sudden demand for transferring funds abroad has resulted in a 24 to 48-hour processing delay due to the sheer volume of requests.

Foreign employees at the United Nations are transferring their money from accounts at the United Nations Federal Credit Union (UNFCU) and other New York City banks, both domestic and foreign-owned, and the move has been sudden.

There has been no explanation for the sudden wire transfer activity, although the rumor mill suggests fears of a sudden economic collapse and/or a U.S. and Israeli military attack on Iran, which could touch off a wider regional conflict.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', 'H')ave you all seen the movie "The Grapes of Wrath"? Even though the Joad family was homeless they still had gas for the truck.

This time around there will not be any gas...

TF

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'I') was trying to stay out of this thread to be honest! ; - )

Confiscation or other draconian measures like capital controls cannot be ruled out as the USA goes bankrupt. They are already passing laws to make renouncing US citizenship (see Trader's Corner) harder and more expensive to give up. And the Patriot Act and anti-money laundering procedures now forced on bank and non-bank financial institutions is as much about controlling offshore financial centers as figthing terrorism. The CFTC and SEC even try to get control over regulation in other countries by for example wanting to supervise the ICE (currently regulated by the FSA) or Rule 144B about that securities can be marketed to US citizens at home or abroad. Someone has to repay the trillions in debt that the USA already owes as well as pay for ongoing unfunded future liabilities. If I was a US taxpayer I would be very nervous. There is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide. At least not legally.