[Guybrush]

Like many others, I discovered Peak Oil by stumbling upon Matt Savinar’s website – Life after the Oil Crash. That was about two years ago. Like many others, I was nearly scared to death trying to believe that such a problem like this could ever exist. Almost immediately after closing the window to the LATOC website, I constantly found myself trying to find some mental relief. I checked Google, but what did I get? I got yet another link to the LATOC website, one link to the Die-Off website, and God knows what else.

Soon after that, I found myself looking for evidence that Peak Oil was simply a hoax. I found a few websites, but found their reasons for debunking Peak Oil almost ridiculous. It’s simple economics. Supply and Demand. One learns such things in Economics 101. Then, what’s the problem with believing Peak Oil? Peak Oil is just a symptom of the current mess we’re in. Eventually, I found the website that talks about The Busby Report while Googling for Peak Oil Survival.

The Busby Report brought at least some mental relief to me – at least it was a change from Matt Savinar’s website saying we’re going back to the Stone Age and everyone is going to die. But the Busby Report primarily focuses on the UK. What will the United States be like in 2025? What will Australia be like in 2025? What if the Busby Report is simply an optimistic scenario in a world of endless pessimistic scenarios? I guess we’ll have to wait and see. But for all we know, the world could be living the conditions of a 3rd-world country in ten, perhaps twenty years.

How will the general public respond to Peak Oil? This is probably one of the things that worry me the most. It’s quite obvious that Peak Oil won’t be something that’s a non-event such as Y2K was. With all the websites about Peak Oil being a hoax, and some websites about Peak Oil being a very serious issue, which one are the public more inclined to believe? Which one will they want to believe? Will attitude towards a transition towards alternative energy sources be calm or are we to expect chaos in the streets?

I’ve tried to tell family and friends about the problem of Peak Oil but they hardly (if ever) listen? Instead, what do they do? They plan where they should spend their vacation next year. I also regularly get emails from family and friends that include links that Peak Oil is a hoax. It’s such a simple concept. Why does such a strong majority refuse to believe it? We’re the same civilization that have created cars, electricity, mass production, planes, plastics, skyscrapers, televisions, trains, video games and numerous other things.

How can such a civilization collapse? Will it collapse? We don’t know. Nobody knows. But if one looks at the theories regarding Peak Oil such as Jevons Paradox or the Olduvai Cliff, they are truly terrifying to everyone. As I think about Peak Oil, I look around me. Everything in this room I type this post at least requires oil in some part of it’s production. Albums, Books, Bookshelves, Computers, Games, Light Bulbs, Magazines, and God knows what else. Hell, even the house I currently live in somehow required oil in part of it’s construction. How do we replace our source for such things? Sure, we can go back to the forest to create bookshelves, desks, and so forth. But how do we do that for six (almost seven) billion people?

If I think about the transition from oil, it seems that there are some alternatives for the things we currently use oil for. But, how can we get the necessary infrastructure in place before the shit starts to hit the fan? When that happens, the image that comes to mind is that we’re fucked. I currently plan to become a writer. But, what use will a writer be in the Post Peak world? What use will any job anybody has (with the exception of carpenters, doctors, labor and so forth) in the Post Peak world?

Really, who’s going to give one shit about what clothes they wear in a Post Peak world? Who’s going to give one shit about the Computer Nerds in a Post Peak world? For all we know, computers could be a fairy tale one would tell to one’s children in the Post Peak world. Let’s take a quick look at a recent event – Hurricane Katrina. Within three days of Katrina’s impact on New Orleans, the town had gone from a civilized place to a Mad Max society. What will the people in power do when the time comes to attempt to control the entire world from going crazy over Peak Oil? We had a hard enough time with New Orleans – we’re going to have one hell of a problem when we’ve got a worldwide problem.

I know I’m asking of too many unknowns in this thread, but in the two years that I’ve known about Peak Oil, it’s rare that I ever stop thinking about it. But with the day of the peak approaching every day, I can’t stop thinking about it. What will happen when the world discovers Peak Oil? It’s unlikely that people will act rationally. There is the option of power down, but what are the chances that the leader of a country will address his nation telling them that they need to reduce 75% of their energy consumption. Let’s look at America. I currently live in Maryland, but have two places to get away from the city in West Virginia and Pennsylvania. Am I going to permanently move there just for the sake of surviving?

I look at the world around me. I look at the supermarkets, the restaurants, the electronic stores, everything. What will all of that matter in the Post Peak world? What will it be (if anything) in the Post Peak world? I’m currently typing this post on a computer. What will the use of computers be in a Post Peak world? What will the use of anything we use today be in a Post Peak world?

If one reads the posts on this website, some predict it to be worst than the Great Depression. Everyone knows that during the Great Depression, things were bad - really bad. How can life get any worse when civilization still exists?

As I said again, I know I ask of too many unknowns. But how can one choose to try to forget about a problem such as this? Especially when the people in charge of countries all over the world are doing nothing to stop it?

[LadyRuby]

If you look at life in the Great Depression, I don't think it was necessarily all that bad, compared to typical life in many developing countries. If that's all we suffer, the Great Depression, I'd say we got off easy. That I could probably life with, and I'm hoping it's no worse than that.

Anyway, I can relate to what you are saying, I find myself very distracted by peak oil. I try to think of the bigger picture (and I mean bigger, as in universal consciousness and that kind of thing) and it does help, but I stress about getting my family by IF there's some kind of financial collapse.

I look at the PO evidence and I can see why a financial collapse may seem imminent, but you just never really know... things could shake out in ways (much better perhaps) than we can imagine...

[RacerJace]

I can definitely relate to your state of mind. Ever since I discovered LATOC I have been obsessed with peak oil and its implications. My wife is absolutely sick of hearing about it. I check this forum and many other related websites several times a day if I have access to the internet. I'm at the point now where I'm getting a bit bored with the whole subject since I'm fully convinced and reasonably clear about what I expect to happen. Yet I still obsess about it and search for something to confirm or dispel the troubles that we will imminently face.

.

[dissimulo]

It is a good thing that you are spending a lot of time thinking about peak oil. Channel that focus and energy into arranging your life so that you will be prepared for hard times. As you take control and make preparations, you will worry less.

[OilyMon]

I've been peak oil aware for a year and a half now. I've spent alot of time thinking and reading and researching. Peak oil sent me into a depression for almost a whole year. I still think, everytime I try and plan for a future that may not ever happen - what is the point of it all? Why would I spend my money on running shoes and furniture when I could be hoarding supplies and looking at where I'm going to go and what I'm going to do in the event of a social collapse? How can I go on with my life and go to my crappy job everyday when in a few years all the money I earned and all of the effort I gave to working (I work for an energy company by the way) could be all for nothing? Why do I still shop at a grocery store when I could be planting and growing my own food? Why have I submitted and got a car (I didn't buy and it's a loner for 3 months but I'm still burning gas... - it's a minivan with just me driving it!)

I've come to the conclusion that the better off I am, the easier it will be to survive after a large scale collapse of the western economy. I have a lot of friends and family who think about peak oil, who are peak oil aware and, like me do nothing explicit to prepare.

I moved out of my house recently, and am now living in an apartment in a walkable community - which is a start. I really only use the car when it's absolutely necessary, and to drive to and from work - which is not absolutly necessary. I don't expect to be able to afford the priviledge of driving for very much longer however. If this summer's gas prices are higher then last summers.....

[aldente]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guybrush', 'H')ow will the general public respond to Peak Oil?

[AmericanEmpire]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t will probably never be communicated and understood on a large scale.

[aldente]

Yes, this is exactely what I am stating. Chances are that other events will steal the show, a 'mini nuclear showdown in Iran' for instance could be one or other escalating emergencies that will need to take the blame for the comming supply disruptions. There is a whole world of imagination to choose from.

[JustinFrankl]

I've had most of the thoughts and feelings that you describe, Guybrush, passing the malls, watching the endless cars, wondering what I might do with computer components in a post-peak world.

It is a process. It will take time, but you'll eventually figure out what to do with all the anxious energy and the sense of impending doom.

In dealing with something like this, I find it helps to periodically do something self-indulgent, something "stupid" and just for the fun of it. A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men. Why? Because your brain needs the occasional break, too.

I have it under good authority that THC and cartoons can work wonders. So can a partner with a slow hand. Please consult a physician, and perhaps a lawyer, before engaging in any questionable activities.

[kevincarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')How can such a civilization collapse? Will it collapse?

[JustinFrankl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guybrush', 'H')ow can such a civilization collapse? Will it collapse? We don’t know. Nobody knows. But if one looks at the theories regarding Peak Oil such as Jevons Paradox or the Olduvai Cliff, they are truly terrifying to everyone.

[BO]

I hear ya Guybrush, personally I have tried (unsuccessfully) to limit my reading of LATOC, Kunstler, Lundberg, etc.

However, now that I have this knowledge, it is hard not to apply it to everything I see. For example, I live in South Florida, where most places you need to drive, to get across the street (safely), no exageration. At least 60%, perhaps more are employed within the "housing bubble", construction, realtors, mortgage brokers, developers, speculators, etc. It is staggering to think about a post-peak, or even post housing bubble South Florida.

If I tell people here about my plans to buy land, grow my food, get off the grid, etc. and suggest they do the same, it is as if I just told them I was planning a trip to the moon, to collect pixie dust. Most people here can not and will not imagine an energy deficient world.

Many here drive 30,000 to 40,000 miles a year for work. Staggering.

I also agree with JustinFrankl about THC, the best anxiety medicine ever. That coupled with a long bike ride, is good therapy, at least when the crazy Floridians in there Hummers, are not throwing things at me, or shouting obscenities (true story).

[Jake_old]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BO', 'I') hear ya Guybrush, personally I have tried (unsuccessfully) to limit my reading of LATOC, Kunstler, Lundberg, etc.

However, now that I have this knowledge, it is hard not to apply it to everything I see. For example, I live in South Florida, where most places you need to drive, to get across the street (safely), no exageration. At least 60%, perhaps more are employed within the "housing bubble", construction, realtors, mortgage brokers, developers, speculators, etc. It is staggering to think about a post-peak, or even post housing bubble South Florida.

If I tell people here about my plans to buy land, grow my food, get off the grid, etc. and suggest they do the same, it is as if I just told them I was planning a trip to the moon, to collect pixie dust. Most people here can not and will not imagine an energy deficient world.

Many here drive 30,000 to 40,000 miles a year for work. Staggering.

I also agree with JustinFrankl about THC, the best anxiety medicine ever. That coupled with a long bike ride, is good therapy, at least when the crazy Floridians in there Hummers, are not throwing things at me, or shouting obscenities (true story).

[Joesvolcano]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kevincarter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')But, what use will a writer be in the Post Peak world?

[jdumars]

I went through a lot of the same gyrations as you when I first discovered PO via LATOC. That was back in 2003. In the time since, I underwent a near complete transformation of the way I view the world and the way I prepare for the future. My wife and I did a ton of research and decided we wanted to buy some livable land that met our long list of requirements. Eventually, we found a place and bought it -- and are slated to have it paid off by the end of March.

In terms of coping emotionally, one of the ways I did this was recording an album entirely dedicated to PO called ""Songs from Oil City"" It's an improvised musical folk tale recorded using nearly all acoustic instruments from all over the world. My idea was to capture the essence of a civilization that was at its peak but suddenly (mysteriously) disappeared, and the only thing left are these recordings. Making this was so incredibly cathartic for me, and perhaps writing about it may serve the same purpose for you.

I would agree with others here that action is another good remedy for the paralyzing sense of dread that comes occasionally from being PO-aware. Here's a short list of things that my wife and I have done, that you can also do with a minimal expense:

- Go to meetup.com and search for "Peak Oil" -- you may find a local support group, or perhaps start your own
- Start eating only local foods that are in season -- find a local farmer's market or worst case, get foods from the supermarket that are locally in season. You'll eat a hell of a lot of cabbage in the winter, as well as canned/preserved veggies/rice/potatoes.
- Shower/bathe as infrequently as humanly possible -- I know it sounds completely kooky, but once you get used to it, bathing almost seems dreadful -- also learn to use Grandpa's Pine Tar soap on your hair.
- Learn a craft, even if is as simple as sewing
- Start collecting a few choice survival goodies, like a really good knife, and use it frequently for every task you can think of. One of my big lessons has been that "survival stuff" is generally useless if you have never used it before -- you don't want to figure such things out in an emergency!

There are a lot more things that I will think of later, and I'll try and post them. Just remember this one thing: Just by knowing about PO you are better off! Let me know if I can help in any way.

[BO]

RedJake wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') think you should tell us about the obscenities you suffered, perhaps start a new thread about it, I'm contemplating cycling to work (10 miles) and haven't done it 'cause I'm sure I'd either be adused terribly or knocked off my bike.

[galacticsurfer]

I live in Hamburg where there are good bike paths everywhere and sidwalks for pedestrians. I have ridden a bike to work(7-8 KM each way) for over a decade. I have no car. My bike is now in repairs so I am taking bus and train each day. They are pretty full and cost a couple EURO each way from my neighbourhood to the city centre. I grew up in Alaska and rode my bike to school ten minutes after the snow was gone in April and May but I never hadd a car there either. This was not like LA with not a big road network or anywhere really to get to. Me and my brothers used to walk a lot as we grew up that way. My Dad had a car but rode his bike or walked to work out of stubbornness or as he was not a good driver and very self sufficient type of person(shoveled coal 25 years at power plant in down to minus 40 degrees weather outside). My brother told me he started getting overweight after he got a car and started driving everywhere. Last time I visited home in Alaska me and my wife went up with my brother to a tourist hot springs in the mountains out of town and we walked up a mountainside trail. Hardly anybody else was walking.People came up past on these 4 wheel small vehicles and asked if we wanted a ride. Somehow I felt negative about it all. They did not get it about enjoying peace and quiet and nature. I never learned fishing or anything although I grew up in the middle of nowhere(lack of car to drive there and no family tradition). Now the town is just a bunch of malls and big box stores like anywhere in USA/Canada and shopping by foot nearly impossible as evrything is too far away(walk ten miles in minus weather?) since the smaller stores (regular 60s-70s era safeway type malls) all gone due to huge Walmarts.

[grabby]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JustinFrankl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guybrush', 'H')ow can such a civilization collapse? Will it collapse? We don’t know. Nobody knows. But if one looks at the theories regarding Peak Oil such as Jevons Paradox or the Olduvai Cliff, they are truly terrifying to everyone.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RacerJace', ' ') I'm at the point now where I'm getting a bit bored with the whole subject

[threadbear]

I can't buy LATOC and I don't quite know why. Maybe it's because things never seem to work out along the lines of our best or worst case scenrios. There's always a wild card that keeps us from knowing the future with any great degree of accuracy, even when it seems so certain. So there's every reason to be somewhat positive about the future, without annoying people by being chirpily optimistic