[careinke]

Of course blue areas pay more than red areas. Blue areas are primarily urban, you know the places where all the Lawyers, CEO's, and Billionaires live. While red areas are primarily rural, you know the places where migrant workers, farmers, and people who can't afford $2,000.00 a month for a 500 square foot apartment live. So it's working EXACTLY like the Dims want it to, the rich areas support the poor areas. So quit bitching already, it's working the way you Dims want it to.

[evilgenius]

Just like how physical structures like magazines or TV stations in the age of information are no longer the holders of value they once were, so too physical containers like counties and states also fail to hold value. We are already Balkanized. Mad Hatter John Birchers are everywhere. They don't only infest Republican strongholds. Conservative disease spreads very easily in hard times, though, the likes of which a low energy future may bring. The power of information to separate us while at the same time not physically require us to comply with the tenants of that separation may wane in such a future. If I lived down South I would run in such a future.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'J')ust like how physical structures like magazines or TV stations in the age of information are no longer the holders of value they once were, so too physical containers like counties and states also fail to hold value. We are already Balkanized. Mad Hatter John Birchers are everywhere. They don't only infest Republican strongholds. Conservative disease spreads very easily in hard times, though, the likes of which a low energy future may bring. The power of information to separate us while at the same time not physically require us to comply with the tenants of that separation may wane in such a future. If I lived down South I would run in such a future.

[sparky]

.
"Evilgenius has a good insight , many societies now are balkanized by internal disarmony

minorities are self concious and do not nescessarily love all of their fellows citizen
would those fractures turn into hostile blocks ? ....they could if the stress is large enought

[Pops]

Gerrymandering + Citizens United (read: Corporations United) = Balkanization

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you thought the presidential election revealed the nation's political rifts, consider the outcomes in state legislatures. The vote also created a broader tier of powerful one-party governments that can act with no need for compromise. Half of state legislatures now have veto-proof majorities, up from 13 only four years ago, according to figures compiled for The Associated Press by the National Conference of State Legislatures.

[AgentR11]

I don't recall you Dem's complaining a whole lot when a Democrat gerrymander was sending a large majority D delegation from Texas despite Texas not being a D state. Sauce for the goose. Get back to me in a couple decades after the R's have had a good fair shake with the modern gerrymander.

[Pops]

The point isn't D vs R (gasp!) it's that the gerrymandered super majorities of whichever party have no reason to pay attention to the wishes of the other whether it's Ds in Tx or Rs in CA.

[Lore]

Looks like an outside possibility anyway that Texas may go blue next Presidential cycle. Which regardless of gerrymander will create ongoing gridlock.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'T')he point isn't D vs R (gasp!) it's that the gerrymandered super majorities of whichever party have no reason to pay attention to the wishes of the other whether it's Ds in Tx or Rs in CA.

[Newfie]

Somehow I think arguing about D vs R is missing the point. That would be business as usual. Balkanization is a different order of magnitude, IMHO.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', ' ')I put it in the same column as thinking the R's will take 70 seats in the US Senate by 2016. Not happening.

[AgentR11]

To be fair, I don't disagree with your general take on gerrymandering, and would love to see a good fix; but only after the R's have as good a bite of the apple as the D's had through the 70s and 80s.

There is actually a pretty easy fix, straight mathematical formula would allow reasonable continued state discretion on district lines, but prevent the extremes of silliness that have been common over the last 40 years or so.

My simple suggestion:
Enclosed area of the district must be less than [(perimeter length ^2) * (factor)]; the larger (factor) is, the more squiggly districts are allowed to be, so that would have to be seriously debated, but I see no reason that a good faith compromise couldn't be found.

[Tanada]

The Congress used to pass a redistricting law every 10 years and they used to include language on the lines of all districts must be as geographically compact and equal in population as possible.

The last time they passed a redistricting law they omitted the district being geographically compact and equal in population language. Some states like Michigan have a state law dictating geographically compact districts but the majority of them do not and gerrymandering has grown to insane proportions as a result. One of the new Democrat safe districts in Ohio has a barbell shape with one end in Toledo, the other end in Cleveland and a basically beach sand connection on Lake Eire connecting them a few meters wide.

[AgentR11]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o given all that, the topic of discussion is:
If the US were to become dis-united would you emigrate from your "sector"? Where?

[AgentR11]

Bah, I knew I should have stripped the partisan reference as it'd distract from the point, which you did get.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'S')o if there is balkanization then the balkans better talk and trade or we are all fubar.

[Pops]

I think when we are talking abstractions we are too logical.

Th farm guy, begrudges the city guy every government perk because the farm guy thinks he is the only one paying the tab. The farm guy however doesn't see his commodity insurance, drought relief, price support, water subsidy, CRP payment, Corp of Engineer waterway management, farm extension, etc, etc, etc, as anything but his due.

City guy exactly the same.