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PeakOil is You

Attention- website full of lies to dispute, any takers?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Unread postby Dezakin » Tue 01 Mar 2005, 21:50:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lease don't feed the trolls, Maverick!


Oh please. What is silly about the statement? Most of oil goes into transportation infrastructure and it has been demonstrated that we have enough nuclear fuel to last millenia. Whats silly about that statement? You think I'm trolling? I back up my arguments with citations and calculations.
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Unread postby Liamj » Wed 02 Mar 2005, 18:46:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t’s just that the way we have been abusing the planet. The only reason we get the kind of crop yield we do is because of genetically modified food and petro-fertilizers. The day we run out of petro-fertilizers well there goes our food.


What do you mean by petro-fertilizers? You think we can't synthesize them?
The falling crop yield debate has been addressed allready here:
http://www.stichting-han.nl/Commentaren ... ersion.doc

Crop yields have gone up, but the whole story is more suscinctly addressed.
This paper has citations to the FAO datasets.


Succinctly addressed?!? its #$% irrelevant! :x

Deza's link discusses a 'World Survey' of 20 (!) scientists, considering criticism of Lomborgs book and the argument over whether wheat production per capita is the best and sole arbiter of 'how we're travelling'!!

Christ, its like that Will Self story about academics studying academic studies, at least he is funny.

But Deza, sadly, is not funny, he's just very,very, careless with his 'evidence'.
:-x
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Unread postby threadbear » Wed 02 Mar 2005, 23:34:37

Oh...that Bjorn Lumbourg!!! Oh, now I get it. No wonder you people are worked up. I saw him in a townhall meeting on CBC. He's breathtakingly idiotic and has a smug shi* eating smile to boot. If you could harness the hot air spewing out of the cornocopians like this *Scandinavian scumbag, it might offer an alternative to fossil fuels. I know it makes me burn.

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest.

*pardon the apparently racist remark. Scandinavians are stereotypically so restrained and logical. What's with this freak?
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Unread postby Agren » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 03:55:23

threadbear:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')jorn Lumbourg [..] Scandinavian scumbag

Hey, you little...

No, wait, you're right, never mind :P

Some more on Lomborg for the interested (snipped from another board, and not written by me).

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Great, another lomborg fan....

from a previous thread:

Ok, lomborg is a statistics professor and not a scientist. There is a saying about statistics which basically says you can prove anything you want to prove with statistics. lomborg has some very severe flaws in his methodology. Scientists follow something called the scientific method, lomborg doesn't. Numerous panels and government organizations have claimed that he is dishonest, unscientific, and has little or no value.

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory ... /story.htm
http://opinionjournal.com/editorial/fea ... =110002949
I can provide many more links if needed.

His arguement against Kyoto?

"Global warming is real and caused by CO2. The trouble is that the climate models show we can do very little about the warming,"

http://tinyurl.com/6b29d

He then argues:

"Even if everyone (including the United States) did Kyoto and stuck to it throughout the century, the change would be almost immeasurable, postponing warming by just six years in 2100,"

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/pr ... 53,00.html

Are you kidding me? Isn't he admitting global warming is going to occur? I thought that was nonsense!!! *sarcasm*

Do you see the problem here? He says global warming is unstoppable in order to fight Kyoto. He also ignores many parts/future CO2 cutbacks of Kyoto in his climate models. Pretty lame tactic if you ask me. (I am against Kyoto btw, but for different reasons.)

If you want some really good stuff. Here is 10 pages written in scientific american that rips this guy apart.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articl ... 00&catID=2

lomborgs undoing is that he thinks there is nothing we can do. I say there is. I say we have an easy way out through technology. People like lomborg hurt us because he knows global warming is going to happen, he just doesn't have any faith/hope we can fix the problem. That is a dangerous mindset IMO.

I could be wrong about what lomborg truly thinks, but I do know that no widely respected scientist is defending his methodology. Keep in mind, I'm talking about his methodology alone that is indefensible. The overwhelming majority of scientists dismiss him.


link
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Unread postby Dezakin » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 04:01:29

pstar:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') looked at your link, your Microsoft Word document. It appears to be a convoluted defense of Bjorn Lomborg, the notorious anti-environment, pro-cornocopian flack. This guy was destroyed by the peer-reviewed and respected journal Nature. But you wouldn't know that would you? I'll bet you can't summarize the article in 100 words or more.


Indeed. Lets stay on topic here... I cited the article for its summary of crop yields and its links to FAO statistics to back them up. A defense or indictment of Lomborg is clearly not the topic I am arguing.

This is compared to claims to the contrary from popular news outlets.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for your question, "What do you mean by petro-fertilizers? You think we can't synthesize them?" If you intend to discuss crop yields and do no know what "petroleum-based fertilizers" refers to then you are IN FACT A TROLL.


Oh tripe. I'm asking for one fertilizer that would be prohibitively costly to synthesize. You can clearly synthesize oil from coal, garbage, limestone, or even air and water.
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Unread postby Liamj » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 06:44:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'p')star:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') looked at your link, your Microsoft Word document. It appears to be a convoluted defense of Bjorn Lomborg, the notorious anti-environment, pro-cornocopian flack. This guy was destroyed by the peer-reviewed and respected journal Nature. But you wouldn't know that would you? I'll bet you can't summarize the article in 100 words or more.


Indeed. Lets stay on topic here... I cited the article for its summary of crop yields and its links to FAO statistics to back them up. A defense or indictment of Lomborg is clearly not the topic I am arguing.

This is compared to claims to the contrary from popular news outlets.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s for your question, "What do you mean by petro-fertilizers? You think we can't synthesize them?" If you intend to discuss crop yields and do no know what "petroleum-based fertilizers" refers to then you are IN FACT A TROLL.


Oh tripe. I'm asking for one fertilizer that would be prohibitively costly to synthesize. You can clearly synthesize oil from coal, garbage, limestone, or even air and water.


This is like arguing with a radio. Deza has no memory and thus no reputation to defend; its Rightthink - keep saying it till its true, dont really engage in discussion.
Make oil from air & water? Is that an affiliate of the 'if infinite energy could fix everything' cult? :lol:
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Unread postby Dezakin » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 12:06:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is like arguing with a radio. Deza has no memory and thus no reputation to defend; its Rightthink - keep saying it till its true, dont really engage in discussion.


Is it I who consistantly derail the issue wit ad-hominems? Do I not provide citations and figures?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')ake oil from air & water? Is that an affiliate of the 'if infinite energy could fix everything' cult?


Its basic chemistry.
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Unread postby Liamj » Thu 03 Mar 2005, 19:12:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('liamj', 'T')his is like arguing with a radio. Deza has no memory and thus no reputation to defend; its Rightthink - keep saying it till its true, dont really engage in discussion.


Is it I who consistantly derail the issue wit ad-hominems? Do I not provide citations and figures?

That was adhominem, i apologise, but i'm also now sure that you're listening.
Where are the figures & citations to which you refer? On this thread theres your 4 molten salt reactor links: i can never keep up with latest fashions, so had to look at the links: 1 paper on how they died out in the seventies but seem like a good idea now, some material on 'Bruce Hoglund's Eclectic Interests Home Page', a few hundred guarded words from a Dutch academic, and a French paper on an experimental model that identified issues with materials/corrosion and the fundamental chemistry of the salts.

Then of course there was your 1 link to support yr claim that "every year we have higher crop yields" .. only thing i thought it proved was that self-selecting surveys are a waste of everybodies time.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('liamj', 'M')ake oil from air & water? Is that an affiliate of the 'if infinite energy could fix everything' cult?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deza', '
')Its basic chemistry.

That requires lots of energy to make it happen, its an endothermic reaction, hence infinite energy cult. I can spell everything out slowly, but i'm having trouble grasping how slow i need to go.
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