[Ibon]

I thought this deserved its own thread. Very politically incorrect and meant to be. As we claim so much of the world to be in denial or asleep it is at times good to also confront the areas where we ourselves, peak oil aware members of the global middle class, our perhaps in denial as well. Blaiming the 1% is all the rage these days but is this partially motivated by our own denial of seeing clearly that the sheer bulk of consumption and damage to our planet today is being done by a group that we are all members of? Weakening this segment, by whatever means, even by the evil 1%, might indeed represent sound environmental policy

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KaiserJeep', '
')
Consider that the erosion of the middle class, and the plundering of middle class wealth from retirement accounts and real estate, further enriches the elite or "one percenters". This massive transfer of wealth ensures that those of us who have worked our entire lives will barely scrape by, while those that are at the top of the economy prosper and will see minimal disruption of their lifestyles.

This was done by and for those wealthy individuals who bought the loyalty of Congress and the Senate and the White House. Now you understand why these things happened.

[Plantagenet]

The 1% who controlled the Communist Part of China mounted a very strong attack on the middle class during the 20th century, with policies designed to stamp out private wealth and western culture, policies designed to forcibly cut population growth, and policies that led to millions of deaths due to famine. Nonetheless, the population of China grew just as rapidly in the 20th century as other countries.

Given the failure of the 1% in China to stop population growth during the 20th century, I don't think the 1% are going to be successful anywhere now in stamping out population growth and the rise of the middle class.


The 1% in China failed to stop population growth in the 20th century despite draconian "one child" policies and the almost complete economic suppression of the middle class

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')
Given the failure of the 1% in China to stop population growth during the 20th century, I don't think the 1% are going to be successful anywhere now in stamping out population growth and the rise of the middle class.

[americandream]

If we stepped past the emotional self interest and viewed this through the prism of objective circumstances, we would better be able to:

1 Ensure we do not fall prey to these tendencies:

2 Develop a logical political stance.

Capitalism is premised on the value of accumulation and its perfection. In other words, striving to master accumulation is a virtue. If it be by selling as many widgets as you can or outwitting other would be competitors, that is all par for the course. Obviously, those at the receiving end develop a certian paranoia as they watch themselves being outwitted, all the while, venting their impotent spleen at the those who are following the rules of capitalism, to the letter.

This underlying driver is part and parcel of capitalism's gradual globalisation as the battle grows for places further up the queue of the finite value bank.

Calling these astute players the one percenters does not and will not alter the fact that they:

1 Have mastered capitalism:

2 Dominate it:

3 Subsidise its supplicants.

I would suggest ensuring that you upskill yourself to ensure that you can preserve equity over the ensuing decades as well as

Develop a viable political and social awareness.

edit: as a day trader I witness this spectacle every day as the rules of war are brought to the fore in the zero sum game of the market.

A benevolent capitalism should appear patently counter-intuitive to fully paid up conservatives such as Plantaganet and yet it takes a Marxist such as myself to educate him on how to master it.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '
')edit: as a day trader I witness this spectacle every day as the rules of war are brought to the fore in the zero sum game of the market.

A benevolent capitalism should appear patently counter-intuitive to fully paid up conservatives such as Plantaganet and yet it takes a Marxist such as myself to educate him on how to master it.

[americandream]

Absolutely not.

Kapital is an analysis of capital, not a personal diatribe. Marx lays out is tendencies and thus leaves it to the reader to take the necessary precautions. Which would be:

1 You either reject it outright including as a source of value, labour or capitalist ad live the live of a self sustainig hermit: or

2 You participate and:

Play by the rules all the while using that political consciousness to remove it (most of the Marxist rank and file in the 20th century uprisings were decidedly from well read backgrounds, middle class or labour). In fact almost all of its participants were reasonable successful within their "middle class" vocations or working class trades. Bitching on inanaely about something that is a fact whilst you are being systematically ass whipped will not change things one iota. Obama Mr Change should have convinced you of that fact ny now. Even a recruit from US capitalism's most marginalised group enthusiastically acts to preserve it.

In other words, cover your behind at the personal level whilst equipping yourself for the bigger battle. Wittering on inanely about saving tha planet will not alter consciousness one iota. Political consciousness is all that matters. How you then go on to apply that consciousness both at the pesonal level and the broader level of activism is another thng. The key is to be risk secure whilst ensuring that you don't start to believe in the bollix (or do an Obama about face).

[rollin]

Once private property or it's other version government owned property laws were established, the rest was inevitable. It set up the possibility of personal or corporate accumulation, which of course was pursued by some. Money is just another version of private property.

In the natural world the world is shared, no overwhelming force is applied to those who live and eat in a place. In a natural world forces act to limit population and there is generally always new territory to migrate. When there isn't population falls.

The current situation is the result of certain governments being formed that push us toward accumulation and growth. The governments control everything, even the food supply. Nature does not restrict the food supply to a few privileged groups.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rollin', 'O')nce private property or it's other version government owned property laws were established, the rest was inevitable. It set up the possibility of personal or corporate accumulation, which of course was pursued by some. Money is just another version of private property.

In the natural world the world is shared, no overwhelming force is applied to those who live and eat in a place. In a natural world forces act to limit population and there is generally always new territory to migrate. When there isn't population falls.

The current situation is the result of certain governments being formed that push us toward accumulation and growth. The governments control everything, even the food supply. Nature does not restrict the food supply to a few privileged groups.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')As we move from resource abundance to constraints wont the elite increasingly view middle class consumption as more of a liability rather than an asset? To what degree will this result in policies that further weaken and constrain the middle class.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')The financial and social structure of the world has developed fitfully over the last 200 years since the industrial revolution started, and I can't see any of the elites voluntarily walking away from producing junk for consumers anymore than I can see the middle class voluntarily stop consuming junk.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')
Remember when Mitt Romney got nailed about talking about "those" voters who would never vote for him anyway. "those" that spunge off of society and don't participate anymore in the free enterprise system.

[ralfy]

Ultimately, the 1 pct relies on increasing production and consumption of goods, and thus a growing global middle class, as the value of money (which is the main asset of the 1 pct) is maintained only given continuous economic growth. However, that global middle class will continue growing as more people worldwide want basic needs, if not more.

[Quinny]

I have met many 'middle class' people who over the last few years have realised the american dream is a sham.

They studied and worked hard all their lives and despite a short period of 'success' have ended up losing everything.

In my experience a lot of these people can become bitter, but a few simply adapt to their new circumstances and consume less. Getting off the hamster wheel of earning more and consuming more is quite liberating for many. It's the system and it's leadership that needs destroying, not the people who are simply participants in the only game in town,

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ralfy', 'U')ltimately, the 1 pct relies on increasing production and consumption of goods, and thus a growing global middle class, as the value of money (which is the main asset of the 1 pct) is maintained only given continuous economic growth. However, that global middle class will continue growing as more people worldwide want basic needs, if not more.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', ' ') It's the system and it's leadership that needs destroying, not the people who are simply participants in the only game in town,

[Ibon]

The largest employer, a mid size factory, in a small town decides to shift production to Asia. A couple thousand employees who dedicated their work and service were given a crisp letter of termination and thanked for their service. The decision by the CEO and CFO to move production was easy and they greatly increased their personal wealth as their labor costs were reduced by 80%.

Familiar story we all know. The heartlessness of the CEO and CFO to abandon, without a second thought, the relationship with all those loyal employees.

Profit motive is only one form of greed and worked like a charm during the rise of consumption and the rise of the middle class.

When economic activity slows way down then other forms of greed take over. A shift takes place toward a steady state economy where the elite will express this greed like refusing to play and hording.

For the middle class that will be like when the irrigation gets turned off on a golf course in the desert.

Great for the local desert ecology. Bad for the grass.

[Pops]

Where your scenario goes awry is that the alien, asking to talk to talk to leaf blower guy's leader, would have been introduced to Mrs. Leaf-Blower.

All politics is local and there is nothing more local than the kitchen table. The one percenter CEO who moves production overseas is no different than the mom & dad who choose Netflix over Cable or generic Cola over Pepsi.

Your point is that we shouldn't blame the 1% for our troubles, that we, the 99%ers are the problem. Yet in your scenario it is the Brass who nod in understanding at the alien's lecture and presumably go on to save the world by reducing the consumption of the 99 but in so doing they also reduce their own accumulation. That won't happen voluntarily, they didn't get to be the 1% by being altruistic, according to your own definition.. The only difference between the 1% and everyone else is zero, lots of zeros but zero nonetheless - any 1980's disaster movie should teach that LOL.

The retreat will be led from the rear.
.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')here your scenario goes awry is that the alien, asking to talk to talk to leaf blower guy's leader, would have been introduced to Mrs. Leaf-Blower.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '
')This rare moment in our species history where affluence was able to trickle down to a broad middle class was only possible due to fossil fuels.