[backstop]

Hawkcreek - no problem. I well agree with the points you make, particularly over all states pushing propaganda at their peoples. Having another nation to blame is a great antidote to people blaming the local power structure.

While Bush & co happen to be running an unprecedented scale of tyrranny primarily by financial levers, I can't see a lot of difference in the motivation or lack of integrity between this and previous empires.

Did you know that Britain went to war with China at one point in order to maintain a corporation's profits from buying the opium crop there and selling it back to millions of the Chinese peasantry ? That was war brazenly to maintain a singularly vicious form of slavery . . .

Also I'd be glad to see a lot more precision in titling threads - what's the point of using wild assertions ? To my mind they certainly don't encourage the creative discussion needed for this site to be useful.

regards,

Backstop

[smiley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you check our newspapers, it seems like a good percentage of these deaths are of people we call dirtbags (druggies, violent felons, etc). If you deduct those deaths, our rate starts to look a lot better.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'r')ising consumers tax on gasoline (to increase it's price even further -> consumption falls down)

[smiley]

There is another strong reason why Europeans are convinced that the average American is a violent dumbass, television.

I don't know if you are aware of it, but, one of your main export products is reality television. We watch 'real stories of the highway patrol', 'amazing car chases', 'trauma', 'cops' etc. etc.

We Europeans are absolutely fascinated by this because it shows a kind of crime that doesn't exist here. It would be utterly inconceivable that a European criminal would try to escape in a car with half the police force on his rear bumper. That the police is allowed to run such a guy of the road or shoot his tires is even stranger for us.

I think it shows that a different type of criminals and a different type of law enforcement indeed does exist in the USA. A more violent and extreme type.

However, it is far too easy to confuse these pictures with America in general. Many here in Europe have the impression that one of three persons entering a hospital has a gunshot wound; that your highway patrol spends its days shooting lunatics of the road etc.

Imagine a bunch of aliens trying to sauce out your culture by watching Roseanne, Ricky Lake and Jerry Springer. Imagine what their picture of the US would be.

Get it. That is how we get our input from the USA. That is the picture you are presenting us.

[jato]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')et it. That is how we get our input from the USA. That is the picture you are presenting us.

[Itch]

The best way to get an understanding of the American populace is to watch American commericals. You'll notice that most consumers are depressed, which is shown by all of the anti-depressant advertisements; sexually frustrated, shown by the almost uniform message, "if you buy our product lots of hot chicks will fuck you"; and fat, which can be observed either by going out into crowded public places, or simply by seeing the latest fast food commercial. I'm sure there are many others, but since I don't usually watch television, I can't list any more.

A few people are able to see them for what they are, but I've found myself prone to certain marketing, like the time I bought a snickers bar with a flank steak. Well, actually I was high at the time, so I wasn't in the most reational state of mind I could have been in.

As infuriating as commericals are, they do work; ortherwise our lives would be much different now. If some of you foreigners want to understand American culture, watch nothing but American commericals for about a week straight. Only then will you realize how fucked up people are around here.

[Licho]

Yes, major US export is modern culture Most films and even TV series we watch are US made, it's constant bombardment. Most people have idea how life looks like in USA from all the films and series. I also found, that people understand the law system in USA more than our own - very different one, because of films

And of course "reality" channels are popular, because it's so different, and as smiley said, we are fascinated by it My favourite chase is with the man in tank If cops shoot here, it's in all TV news and people talk about it for week
Sadly, comercials are localized, so I'v never seen US TV comercial

[backstop]

Itch - you have one great advantage - having withstood the sort of brainwashing people put up with over there, then when you come over here to Europe, as I hope you will, you'll find the primitive version of it here just a doddle to handle.

regards,


Backstop

[smiley]

Ehmmm... did we just actually agree on something other than the existence of peakoil?

There is hope

[Aaron]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he best way to get an understanding of the American populace is to watch American commercials.

[superhamzah]

Actually, if you were to watch British commercials, and compare them to American commercials, they're almost alien to one another. Why? Because the people are different, commercials are designed to attract a majority populace.

Now obviously, the type of advertisement reflects what type of people they are targetting. It works, otherwise they wouldn't spend millions on it.

American adverts, in my experience, are in your face, energetic, sales driven enthusiasts. British adverts are much more subtle, quieter, and complicated, and at times more rude. Infact, sometimes, they insult their own product and even the prospective customer. This is clever because, when you meet a stranger, they will be polte, respectful, even if they dont like you.

But a very good friend, would easily be able to critisize you, or be rude infront of you. So the British/European type adverts, are designed in a way to make the company more 'friendlier' and customer orientated, and not afraid to critisise, because critisism is usually a sign of honesty and integrity.

American adverts would fail miserably in Britain, because when we see them, we laugh out at the absurdity of their selling techniques.

Likewise, British adverts would more or less, confuse or alienate the Americans.

I'm not generalising, but i say that these things would maybe apply to at least half the population of both countries.

The reason we know quite a bit about American entertainment is because here in Britain, MANY of our programmes, are eventually converted into an American equivalent. Like Big Brother, Who Wants to be a Millionaire, even obscure stuff like Ali G, and Trigger Happy Tv, and it's remarkable the alterations they make to the programmes to attract a wider audience.

Anyway...American 'Imperialism' is way more commercial/cultural than anything else. Unfortunately, it is constant bombardment, and it does indoctrinate to a great extent, so much so, that when foreigners in their home lands, learn the english language, even from a foreign teacher, they speak it in an American accent. And NOT the PROPER SCOTTISH accent!!!

(yep im scottish) and we pronounce our r's like they should be

its alRIGHT not ALWITE! GRRRRRRR

[Aaron]

lol SH...

Media is intended for the "lowest common denominator" by default.

Because the "target audience" for a specific product or service requires supporting advertising to be offensive in some manner, does not indict the entire culture.

Sure "American Idol" and similar programs success shows there are millions it appeals to, but does not speak to the many millions of others who are not thus afflicted. The media machine beats it's own drum the loudest of course, to create this "impression" it seeks, but it's a little simplistic to say that defines the majority culture in any meaningful way.

If subtle British humor is lost on many Americans (which of course it is), does that mean England is populated by a nation of sophisticated James Bonds? And if that's the case... then explain Benny Hill...

And if British English is better than American English, how come you guys use the letter "s" when it should clearly be a "z"? Organise your thoughts and reply...

[superhamzah]

Hah!!! Infact we do you use a "z" but I umm...mispelled it. :D

I had one of those lapses where you can't remember how to spell something simple!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'b')ut it's a little simplistic to say that defines the majority culture in any meaningful way.

[KiddieKorral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('superhamzah', 'A')merican English? That's blasphemous, we invented it. Careful, or we'll colonize you again. Do you actually know how many British MI5 and MI6 agents hold government positions in America? We could occupy you in a jiffy (Scottish slang)

[superhamzah]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith all those guns floating around? You just try.

[Itch]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ecause the "target audience" for a specific product or service requires supporting advertising to be offensive in some manner, does not indict the entire culture.

[KiddieKorral]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('superhamzah', 'c')heck ur private messages, i told you there

[KiddieKorral]

Hey, let's hear some details about this trip to Yemen! Please start another thread though, we've hijacked this one for long enough.

[chris-h]

http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/chapters/18p.htm

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')mpty Children

Not far to go now. Here is my recipe for empty children. If you want to cook whole children, as I suspect we all do, just contradict these stages in the formula:

1. Remove children from the business of the world until time has passed for them to learn how to self-teach.

2. Age-grade them so that past and future both are muted and become irrelevant.

3. Take all religion out of their lives except the hidden civil religion of appetite, and positive/negative reinforcement schedules.

4. Remove all significant functions from home and family life except its role as dormitory and casual companionship. Make parents unpaid agents of the State; recruit them into partnerships to monitor the conformity of children to an official agenda.

5. Keep children under surveillance every minute from dawn to dusk. Give no private space or time. Fill time with collective activities. Record behavior quantitatively.

6. Addict the young to machinery and electronic displays. Teach that these are desirable to recreation and learning both.

7. Use designed games and commercial entertainment to teach preplanned habits, attitudes, and language usage.

8. Pair the selling of merchandise with attractive females in their prime childbearing years so that the valences of lovemaking and mothering can be transferred intact to the goods vended.

9. Remove as much private ritual as possible from young lives, such as the rituals of food preparation and family dining.

10. Keep both parents employed with the business of strangers. Discourage independent livelihoods with low start-up costs. Make labor for others and outside obligations first priority, self-development second.

11. Grade, evaluate, and assess children constantly and publicly. Begin early. Make sure everyone knows his or her rank.

12. Honor the highly graded. Keep grading and real world accomplishment as strictly separate as possible so that a false meritocracy, dependent on the support of authority to continue, is created. Push the most independent kids to the margin; do not tolerate real argument.

13. Forbid the efficient transmission of useful knowledge, such as how to build a house, repair a car, make a dress.

14. Reward dependency in many forms. Call it "teamwork."

15. Establish visually degraded group environments called "schools" and arrange mass movements through these environments at regular intervals. Encourage a level of fluctuating noise (aperiodic negative reinforcement) so that concentration, habits of civil discourse, and intellectual investigation are gradually extinguished from the behavioral repertoire.

[Terran]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Itch', ' ')

There are people who don't watch telelvision, but most of them do, and watch a lot of it.