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America now has more untapped oil than any other country

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby AdamB » Mon 11 Jul 2016, 20:31:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '
')There is a feedback loop that controls the price of oil.


Yup. Here it is.

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Plant Wed 11 Apr 2007 "I think Deffeyes might have nailed it, and we are just past the overall peak in oil production. (Thanksgiving 2005)"
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby rockdoc123 » Tue 12 Jul 2016, 14:28:41

whether I believe in the "thermodynamics controls everything ergo it controls oil price" meme the issue here is hijacking threads which both Shortonoil and Whatever seem to be doing on a regular basis is at odds with forum policy.
If you want to play cheerleader for the theory then please take it back to the appropriate thread. The discussion here was about oil reserves in the US and directly related information.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby AdamB » Tue 12 Jul 2016, 21:11:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'S')hotonoil can you please limit your marketing to the thread which has become Peak Oil's own Groundhog Day?
Honestly I am sure I'm not the only one who gets tired of the same rhetoric popping up on each and every thread.

Short's reference to his own study is not 'rhetoric.' It supports his essential point.


I agree with Pstarr. Shorts referring to his own study isn't rhetoric, it is sales, and as such certainly supports his essential point...of making money off whatever the gullible will pay for.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby StarvingLion » Tue 12 Jul 2016, 23:25:47

Shale Corp is of the same ilk as Apple Corp, Google Corp, Tesla Corp, Amazon Corp etc...

They are not builders, they are destroyers and liquidators.

They are Fiat Money Printers.

The objective is to spin a fantasy world while pretending Industrial civilization is not collapsing.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby Whatever » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 01:06:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'S')hotonoil can you please limit your marketing to the thread which has become Peak Oil's own Groundhog Day? Honestly I am sure I'm not the only one who gets tired of the same rhetoric popping up on each and every thread.

I get tired of seeing your repetitive rhetoric popping up on each and every thread, too. And I happen to enjoy Shortonoil's posts quite a lot. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I. That is fair. But you want a special rule that restricts the ability of other posters to freely speak their minds and offer opinions that differ from yours. That is called cheating. If you are that desperate to try to gag your opponents, it is a sign that you know you are losing the debate.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'w')hether I believe in the "thermodynamics controls everything ergo it controls oil price" meme the issue here is hijacking threads which both Shortonoil and Whatever seem to be doing on a regular basis is at odds with forum policy.
If you want to play cheerleader for the theory then please take it back to the appropriate thread. The discussion here was about oil reserves in the US and directly related information.

No one is hijacking any threads. There is no official forum policy that restricts discussion of the thermodynamics of oil depletion to only one thread. Why should there be?

At the top of the page it says: "Peak Oil News and Message Boards: Exploring Hydrocarbon Depletion". Since thermodynamics is so fundamental to the subject of hydrocarbon depletion, it makes no sense to arbitrarily restrict it's discussion to only one thread. Unless, of course, this site has some kind of hidden agenda besides exploring hydrocarbon depletion.




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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby rockdoc123 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 12:38:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou are entitled to your opinion, as am I. That is fair. But you want a special rule that restricts the ability of other posters to freely speak their minds and offer opinions that differ from yours. That is called cheating. If you are that desperate to try to gag your opponents, it is a sign that you know you are losing the debate.


If you wish to express some opinion related to the topic of the thread which is specifically to do with the reserve assessments of US oil versus that of Russia, Saudi Arabia then have at it. But showing up here in order to change the subject so you can turn this thread into another one of the "deja vu all over again" epics you have already created elsewhere flies in the face of the code of conduct....post where it belongs and do not flood threads. I look to Tanada or one of the other moderators for comment here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o one is hijacking any threads. There is no official forum policy that restricts discussion of the thermodynamics of oil depletion to only one thread. Why should there be?

At the top of the page it says: "Peak Oil News and Message Boards: Exploring Hydrocarbon Depletion". Since thermodynamics is so fundamental to the subject of hydrocarbon depletion, it makes no sense to arbitrarily restrict it's discussion to only one thread. Unless, of course, this site has some kind of hidden agenda besides exploring hydrocarbon depletion.


The rationale of having different threads is that discussion concentrates on a particular topic. You however along with Shortonoil seem to want to turn each and every thread into your own soapbox for "thermodynamic causes everything". Is it worth discussing? Sure but not on every thread you can find an excuse to alter the discussion.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby ROCKMAN » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 13:31:03

Adam - Probability distributions of TRENDS are interesting but have no bearing on the Ps of any individual prospect...which was the point I brought up. Doc will tell you he has never recommended drilling any well based on such analysis...it was always based upon the prospect's analysis. It won't matter if the trend analysis indicates a Ps of 90% if it's a sh*t prospect. Of which I'm sure Doc has seen many times. Where do you think the 10% of the dry holes in such a trend come from? LOL.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby Whatever » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 14:35:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '.')..showing up here in order to change the subject so you can turn this thread into another one of the "deja vu all over again" epics you have already created elsewhere flies in the face of the code of conduct....post where it belongs and do not flood threads.

Dude, I just showed up here to answer your accusation against me. That seems pretty fair. I am not hijacking this thread. But even just defending myself against your attempt to gag me is seen by you as hijacking the thread. I guess from now on every post I make will be treated this way. This is very unfair.

If Shortonoil makes a post about thermodynamics on a thread, does that mean that I cannot comment on the same thread? If someone answers one of my posts on thermodynamics, can I respond back or is that considered flooding, too? Is there a daily thermodynamics quota or limit? These special rules can get confusing.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', 'T')he rationale of having different threads is that discussion concentrates on a particular topic. You however along with Shortonoil seem to want to turn each and every thread into your own soapbox for "thermodynamic causes everything". Is it worth discussing? Sure but not on every thread you can find an excuse to alter the discussion.

Shortonoil makes his posts, I make mine. We are not working together. But Shortonoil and I are not allowed to share similar views about thermodynamics. Why? The real problem is that, for some reason, this site overtly hates thermodynamics and especially the Etp model as a policy. The level of hatred for the Etp model seems unreasonable and *WAY* out of proportion. This bias is so overt, it is like a cartoon.

That is all I have to say for now. Please carry on with this super interesting thread. If I have anything to add, I will feel free to do so, just like any other member of this fine forum.



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Last edited by Whatever on Wed 13 Jul 2016, 15:19:49, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby ennui2 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 15:17:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Whatever', 'T')his bias is so overt, it is like a cartoon.


Did someone say...cartoon?

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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby rockdoc123 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 16:31:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')hortonoil makes his posts, I make mine. We are not working together. But Shortonoil and I are not allowed to share similar views about thermodynamics. Why? The real problem is that, for some reason, this site overtly hates thermodynamics and especially the Etp model as a policy. The level of hatred for the Etp model seems unreasonable and *WAY* out of proportion. This bias is so overt, it is like a cartoon.


It's a pattern...one of you shows up and changes the topic of the thread and it just goes into the non-ending loop of "well thermodynamics controls everything so I'm always right". As I said keep that discussion to where it belongs. It has nothing to do with the thread topic. The level of "hatred" for the ETP model is proportional to the number of repetitive posts you make on the subject and the fact you fall back on the universal theory meme whenever you are asked legitimate questions. You already have several threads where you repeat the same thing for scores of pages....why do you need to hijack anymore?

So returning to the theme....US reserves. Here is a recent article from Financial Times referencing comments from WoodMac pointing to the fact US shales are the lowest cost option and hence the reserve size (and here I use reserves in it's true economic context) in the US is quite important

[url]https://next.ft.com/content/0a7a817a-4863-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab
[/url]
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')bout 60 per cent of the oil production that is economically viable at a crude price of $60 a barrel is in US shale, and only about 20 per cent is in deep water, said Wood Mackenzie, the consultancy.
Companies with US shale assets are likely to be at a competitive advantage over the next few years. Producers that rely on oilfields in higher-cost regions such as the North Sea and the deep waters off west Africa will have to cut costs or face shrinking output.
After the oil price plunge that began two years ago, production costs have been cut across the industry, but far more so in US shale.
Average costs per barrel have dropped by 30 to 40 per cent for US shale wells, but just 10 to 12 per cent for other oil projects, said Simon Flowers of Wood Mackenzie.
US shale regions that two years ago were in the middle of the cost curve for future oil supplies are now down towards the lower end.
Investments in the Eagle Ford shale of south Texas on average need a Brent crude price of $48 a barrel to break even, on Wood Mackenzie’s calculations, while projects in the Wolfcamp formation in the Permian Basin in west Texas need $39.
“There are more opportunities to invest in the US, and that’s where the investment will take place,” said Mr Flowers.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby ennui2 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 19:49:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Investments in the Eagle Ford shale of south Texas on average need a Brent crude price of $48 a barrel to break even, on Wood Mackenzie’s calculations, while projects in the Wolfcamp formation in the Permian Basin in west Texas need $39.


A while back PStarr was drawing a line in the sand at around $70 for break-even. That's a $30 spread between the above and the doomer claim. We're living in two different universes. If a doomer wants to back up their claims at all costs they just make up self-serving figures and claim anything like the above info is bogus.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby rockdoc123 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 20:34:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hermodynamics have to do with everything, rockdoc. Especially oil production. After all, oil is the main source of energy. Thermodynamics is about energy. As a doctor you should know that. If the diesel btu's required to draw oil out of a tight structure is greater than the btu's in the oil in the tight structure . . . than the event is thermodynamically pointless.

and here you are again hijacking the thread. The thread is about US oil reserves it has nada to do with thermodynamics. Unlike you or the two other posers you have decided to cheerlead for I have worked for 30+ years in the industry and thermodynamics is not a consideration when it comes to finding oil, producing it or calculating how much is in the ground. And I am an actual scientist so I think I know something about this.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou are the one obligated to prove how thermodynamics do not control everything.


No I am not. We all require air and water to live, but I do not consider either of those elements when I ever made a decision to drill a well or pursue a prospect anywhere in the world. And if I was interested in discussing this complete BS I would do so on the threads created for that reason. Once again this thread is not about that, has nothing to do with it....take your nonsense back to threads that have already become the reiteration from hell.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') live in the world of physics. Apparently most of the folks left here at po.com live in a fantasy world.

No you do not. You live in a world where somehow you think that you are a physicist and understand the complexities of the science because you read some BS from someone with an arts degree.

Once again can I ask the mods to move the "thermodynamics are responsible for everything" discussion to the appropriate thread?
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby StarvingLion » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 20:37:10

http://euanmearns.com/the-peak-oil-paradox/#comments

The Peak Oil Paradox

Concluding Thoughts

M. King Hubbert’s forecast for US oil production and the methodology it was based on has been proven to be sound when applied to conventional oil pools in the USA. When decline takes hold in any basin or province, it is extremely difficult to reverse even with a period of sustained high price and the best seismic imaging and drilling technology in the world.
On this basis we can surmise that global conventional oil production will peak one day with unpredictable consequences for the global economy and humanity. It is just possible that the near term peak in production of 97.08 Mbpd in July 2015 may turn out to be the all-time high.
Economists who argued that scarcity would lead to higher price that in turn would lead to higher drilling activity and innovation have also been proven to be correct. Much will depend upon Man’s ability to continue to innovate and to reduce the cost of drilling for LTO in order to turn a profit at today’s price levels. If the shale industry is unable to turn a profit then it will surely perish without State intervention in the market.
But from 2008 to 2015, oil production actually fell in 27 of 54 countries despite record high price. Thus, while peak oil critics have been proven right in North America they have been proven wrong in half of the World’s producing countries.
Should the shale industry perish, then it becomes highly likely that Mankind will face severe liquid fuel shortages in the years ahead. The future will then depend upon substitution and our ability to innovate within other areas of the energy sector.

---------------------------------

If the shale industry continues, it destroys the economy.
If the shale industry perishes, it destroys the economy.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby AdamB » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 21:41:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')I live in the world of physics.


You gotta be kidding, you can't even determine which of 2 non-equal numbers are larger, calling peak oil back when the oil rate was SMALLER, if you can't figure that out, you certainly aren't going anywhere with physics.
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Re: America now has more untapped oil than any other country

Postby ennui2 » Wed 13 Jul 2016, 22:21:48

"If the oil price crosses above the Etp maximum oil price curve within the next month, I will leave the forum." --SumYunGai (9/21/2016)
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