[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m hoping for some form of a future primitive; if not for me then for those who come after me. I really think it's the planet's only hope.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '
')In this case I think we would me more likely to see MadMax (on foot) rather than the "Cave Bear clans". Reason being that we have discovered how much easier to rob people than to earn for our selves. It would take a long time to forget habits we learnt.

[BigTex]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')y point is that such social stratifications (classes) simply don't exist in non-civilized cultures. Class structure is a feature of civilized societies.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', '
')
I thought even apes had social stratifications.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')My point was that elites are a creation of the society, no matter the size.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '[')
I think we agree on the central point that stratifications are a human manifestation.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '[')
I think we agree on the central point that stratifications are a human manifestation.

[firestarter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')'m hoping for some form of a future primitive; if not for me then for those who come after me. I really think it's the planet's only hope.

[Micki]

I don't think it will go there either.
The suggestion I was trying to make is that if we did, it wouldn't be back to the noble savage state but into a state where past habits and knowledge would be carried with human kind and some of this would be the dark sides that we have developed through the millienia.

[charliebrownout]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Thus I only have so much hatred for the elites for if we shot them all then there would just be another batch cropping up to take their place.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('charliebrownout', '
')
I know I'm not the only person in the world who feels there IS a better way out there. I'm not sure if that means permaculture, small communities, playing games instead of waging war, returning to an earlier form, or what it means. Still, I think there IS a better way--free from elites and other forms of subjugation--which will lead people to a more humane (and maybe happier) existence.

Again, I think the answer is on the tip of humanity's tongue. We almost know what it is, but we just can't say it out loud yet.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('charliebrownout', 'E')lites are not really necessary and heirarchy isn't necessarily a good thing.

[BigTex]

The day that we learned to produce massively more than we needed--i.e., the day the factory was born--was not a good day.

From the factory all sorts of bad things have grown, while our world has appeared to get richer with all of the products we have created.

The factory system has little use for human frailty and its only core principle is to increase efficiency.

The factory is a big part of the problem. Ralph Borsodi made the case convincingly in "This Ugly Civilization."

[firestarter]

Where we REALLY came from:

Future Primitive

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I have no "ideals."

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Everyone has ideals. The fact that you are bringing up this contrarian viewpoint means you are trying to point out what you see as a "better" way.

[FreakOil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('charliebrownout', 'E')lites are not really necessary and heirarchy isn't necessarily a good thing.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I guess I think it strange that you say you agree with much of what I have to say on the board

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('FreakOil', '
')Projection. Just because you would knife your mother to join the elites doesn't mean everyone else would.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')It's the remaking of society part that I am hazy on.