[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

I have a question about ethics. Lets say hypothetically that I know a curse. Why shouldn't I use it? Lets say the person I use it on doesn't know that I've cursed him (because we aren't using it to bully them, just to get even.)

Who says its wrong? Why is it wrong. Is it ok to use it on them after they have been harmful to you? What if they've made your life a living hell, is it ok to curse them then? What if they've made your life such a living hell that you decide your karma can withstand such a blight. BEcause hey, you are already in hell, it really can't get any worse. (and lets leave aside the old arguement that it can always get worse, just for the sake of arguement).

Who is to say that there will be any repurcussions even Karmicly. Who is to say taht your role isn't one of helping their Karma to manifest back on them?

Would people act differently (ie: not be so willing to act against you) if they knew there was the chance that you could take things into your own hands? a metaphysical vigilante so to speak.

On a broader scale, has taking people's power away from them made society more victimized becasue they can't take justice into their own hands? Has society bred a class of people who will bully, steal and intimidate becasue the lower classes (or who ever) are so powerless?

What would happen if you made such a curse known to more people. What do you think the results would be of more people knowing such a harmful curse would be on those who know it? Do you think if ordinary people knew a couple bad curses that they would use them indiscriminantly? Or do you think that having that power would make them more circumspect?

What if the curse was really powerful. Say, even made cancer active and killed people within say 3 months (which seems to be a magic number in those kinds of things)?

[Aaron]

Very superstitious, writings on the wall,
Very superstitious, ladders bout to fall,
Thirteen month old baby, broke the lookin glass
Seven years of bad luck, the good things in your past.

When you believe in things that you dont understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition aint the way

[dinopello]

Wouldn't ethics be some codeified rules for the use of curses and other things of this nature ? So, if you belonged to a witch coven, they might have some ethics guidelines. The morality of cursing someone is debateable.

It seems obvious to me that if people believe you have ability to curse them, they will treat you differently. There are a few witchy women I know that I try and stay on the good side of.

[blukatzen]

Curses were typically the purview of people in tribal or familial-clan based societies that upheld social rules.

When the leader of an area (King) held the law in his hands, and abused it, or had those under him in, either kinsmen or those oathed to protect him, abuse the common law, the thrall class (the "little people") had the right of cursing those above them as a last resort.

If you read the Lays or Sagas of old, you can sometimes see how the stories of those curses laid out upon the fortunes of the people, the land, and the families involved.

One good Story is the National Epic of Germany, the Lay of Seigfried, which is the story of the Ring cycle. You can see what happens when the story of the Gold treasure of the Rhinemaidens is stolen, and what happens to families, kith and kin of a whole area....

Curses affects more things than *just* ethics. It affects the Wyrd of a person, an area, a tribe, a nation.

It's easier to let "natural law" happen to those who are evil, and watch natural justice occur. It WILL happen..

Blu

[kpeavey]

I think a hex may be more appropriate than a curse.

[Ludi]

There is the idea (popularized by Wicca) that curses will return upon the curser, even threefold. So the evil you send out into the world will strike you down surely in the end.

So if you don't mind suffering from your own curse, go ahead, I guess....

Who can say anything about anything?

[WildRose]

Well, I guess I'm superstitious in that I adhere to the "be careful what you wish for" thing (if what
you're wishing for could cause someone harm). Is a wish the same as a curse? Either way, I'd
be afraid that it would come around to bite me in the ass. Better to just watch Karma at work.

[WildRose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'I') think a hex may be more appropriate than a curse.

[efarmer]

The biggest curse in a curse in my opinion is the fact that
you must invest belief in one to do it. You have to act like
a syringe for evil and suck in a big load of it and direct it
out at your intended victim. You run the risk of a hiccup
or a charleyhorse causing you to gulp and suck
all that curse inside yourself.

And then there you are with a belly full of curse.

The better thing is to be extraordinarily nice to the person,
and if they have been delving into the naughty bag, let
the doubt and evil they have been playing with start to
work it's magic on their own bad self while they deviously
ponder about what you are up to.

[Aaron]

Must be a girl thing... we have like almost every female around here posting in this thread... 'cept SPG

Doctors are so sciencey and such...

Praise HawkMan

[vision-master]

Nothing like a woman’s scorn

[bodigami]

a friendly and sincere advice, stay away from "casting" curses.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')here is the idea (popularized by Wicca) that curses will return upon the curser, even threefold. So the evil you send out into the world will strike you down surely in the end.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

There is a fair amount of difference between hexing and curses. Hexing is "low level" but actually takes a lot more effort. A curse is actually less effort and less emotional baggage tied into it, but you have to have a bit of schooling to do properly.

Hexing can be as simple as as energy work where you ball all your feelings up into a single point of energy and release it so that karma will be turned on to that person faster than otherwise might happen.

Is it maybe a matter of how its done? if its a matter of speeding up someones karma (to come back and teach them a lesson) its still "natural" you are just hurrying things a bit right? so would that still be "wrong"?

But cursing can be a matter of attaching something malevolent to someone or even an object they own or that you give to them, that does bring a mindless, unmeasured harm, and can be final in its effect.

Either way, you are not the one who determines what comes back onto the person. One is more "low level" and measured, you might even say more "just", but the other is more final and drastic (though that depends on what you are acutally cursing, the person or an object)? So does that make one better because it is not as bad? or because it uses the karma that person themselves created?

I wouldn't hex someone jsut cause they cut me off in traffic, or pissed me off (tempting though that is ). They have to do some major harm and no I'm not referring to the friend who just had his ex accuse him of molesting her daughter. There are some people I'd love to hex (like politicians) that are "hands off" cause I know I'm not supposed to. Much as I hate it (especially Steven Harper) there are some things that are supposed to be and I can usually tell the difference.

On the personal side of things, hexing can acutally be a a release of these hurt feelings. It can be really cathartic. Whereas cursing doesn't help you deal with the feelings beyond the fact that the person might now be dead and so they aren't still around pissing you off, or they might be in pain and otherwise growing as a person through this present struggle and therefore more/less likely to care about whether you are an annoyance/threat or whatever to them.

the only way I've even seen a curse come back to someone is if the cursed person found someone who could release the curse so it rebounded back to the curser. But the chances of that happening now-a-days are so bloody remote... its not really a consideration.

but a hex really does involve karma, and there is not really any way for that to rebound onto a person... so where does that leave it?

PS thanks so much for all your input. I've had this question for some time and have come to no new conclusions. and now I'm going to be starting a new philosophy course that deals with ethics etc...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '
')HA! I hadn't posted in this thread, and I am a female...... oh, wait......

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '
')HA! I hadn't posted in this thread, and I am a female...... oh, wait......

[SeaGypsy]

In my other home, the Philippines; belief in curses is very common.
There are 'Bruja' who are feared broadly for their spiritual malevolence. I have known of one who is believed to have contributed to at least 3 untimely deaths. She usually targets those who try to cheat her at 'Tong-it', a popular card game.
My wife's family are all Baptists who believe both the Bible and the Bruja. They appease the Bruja by visiting her once a year or so and being very polite; offering small gifts of chocolate and the like.
Many of the Catholics in our town are very afraid of the Bruja, they avoid her street, her house, especially any eye contact.
The people she is believed to have cursed to death were all nominal Catholics; she herself does not attend church. The whole town knows of her 'power'. Apparently there are Bruja in every town in the Philippines; their power is broadly recognized.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bodigami', 'i')f the agression is on going, you have to confront him/her/them with any means you can, so that the situation stops.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Since we talk about a new world (aka doomer porn) on here all the time I'd like to put a new reality out there (especially since as Aaron pointed out there are a lot of women who looked at this thread).

Can you imagine a future where you (in a powered down scenario) get together with a group of women you are close too, once in a not so blue moon, share your stories, gossip, recipes. Where you share your burdens, pain, repression? Tears, laughter and communally lighten your load... in a communal type bond?

What if when you were occasionally feeling repressed, harrassed, or stalked and the group let you lead. They lent their hearts, power and wills to easing you of this burden. Where you metaphysically amassed your pain and turmoil into a tangible form so that you could release it to the universe. Never to be bothered again. Freed from its weight and supported by close friends. Would this really be a bad thing?

[Blueberry]

I think we basically live in our minds -- reality IS perception. If we create and live in a world with curses, revenge and such we will feel this negativity and suffer from it, ultimately, as we are feeding a negative reality perception.

If create a world where we strive for acceptance on the other hand, we feel the pain but don't necessarily suffer (as much).

We create whichever world we're living in, so personally, I try to live in a place without curses.

Ethically, I think that cursing someone who is pretty much already cursed (as in the alkie landlord) is redundant at best, probably self-injurous, and, yes, imo unethical for would-be messiah types.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Blueberry', 'I') think we basically live in our minds -- reality IS perception. If we create and live in a world with curses, revenge and such we will feel this negativity and suffer from it, ultimately, as we are feeding a negative reality perception.

If create a world where we strive for acceptance on the other hand, we feel the pain but don't necessarily suffer (as much).