For 2019, let’s replace a once-useful word that, like a guest who stays too long, has worn out its welcome. Depending on the context, it can sometimes have no meaning or far too many meanings (which is just as useless). The word is “sustainable.”
In a stricter sense, sustainable means minimizing the use of resources so that we don’t run out of them. But at times it also indicates, among other things, that we must stop doing important things, either by semi-popular will or government direction. That can include increasing our population, using energy for valuable purposes, driving (particularly alone), and eating meat.
Let’s replace sustainable with a different word: “discoverable.”
Take plastic bags, which cause all kinds of problems. Cows and camels who eat them can die. Whales wash up on shores with bellies full of them. We can ban them or stare at the louts who refuse to use sustainable, reusable bags. Or we can ask whether there might be a discoverable solution.
Discoverable solutions can come from the most unlikely of places, like solar-powered drones. If we can someday deploy drones to deliver merchandise, we’ll no longer need to haul groceries home in cheap, petroleum-based plastic bags. It’s only one solution, and I have no doubt there are other ways to solve the problem.
As long as we’re thinking about driving to the store, let’s look at perhaps the number-one sustainability problem: running out of oil. The “sustainable” answer is to regulate fuel economy (i.e., through the Corporate Average Fuel Economy).
For a century, the oil question has remained one of sustainability. In 1914 the U.S. Bureau of Mines predicted we would run out in 10 years. Scientist Paul Erlich predicted in 1973 that we would run out in 1990. When it didn’t happen, he re-predicted in 2002 that we will run out in 2030. (Last summer, HSBC bank, citing the Global Footprint Network, even predicted that we are running out of all resources needed to sustain life.)
These predictions spur lots of concerned citizens to pose sustainability solutions like regulations and taxes. But there’s a reason the predictions haven’t come true: They ignore the discoverable options happening all around us.
The most recent solution is simply finding more oil, e.g. through fracking, although it has its own problems (which are also likely amenable to discovery). Fracking has made the United States a net exporter of oil.
More discoverable solutions lie in alternate energy sources — and not just wind, solar, geothermal and hydroelectric but also electricity from where rivers meet oceans, photosynthesis and fusion reactors.
Foods that are considered unsustainable have often led to restrictive rules rather than discoverable solutions. We are concerned about feeding a growing world population even as we throw out one-third of all the food we grow (40 percent in wealthy countries). The sustainability path includes regulating food waste and eating less meat. Discoverable solutions include new technologies like 3D food printers that only produce as much food as you need to eat and cell-based meat.
Feeding the world might also mean vertical farming, allowing us to grow food anywhere on less land and using carbon dioxide to enhance growth rather than expelling it as a waste product during transport. Farmers now use drones, satellite imagery and artificial intelligence to practice precision farming, allowing us to shrink the land used. We are now feeding twice as many people as we did in the 1930s using 12 percent less land.
We only have to look around to see all of the marvelous discoveries coming into use, including drones, robotics, nanotechnology, big data, artificial intelligence, gene-editing and so much more. When I was growing up, you could read Popular Science and Popular Mechanics to get a good picture of what was coming. Today there are so many discoveries that push well past the idea of sustainable solutions that it is nearly impossible to keep up.
As Shakespeare’s Hamlet advised his compatriot, “There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” Goodbye sustainability, hello discoverability.


JR on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 7:04 pm
This was a very poorly written article.
Sustainable does NOT “means minimizing the use of resources so that we don’t run out of them” as described by this silly article.
You don’t get to “minimize the use of resources” and also use the word sustainable.
Sustainable means to ONLY use resources which are naturally replenished. Oil does not apply in this case, nor do minerals, or anything that is gone once consumed.
Resource that are consumed are not sustainable, even if they’re “minimized”.
And verticle farming is fine for low-calorie ideas like lettuce, but no, this will never feed us or even a fraction of the planet. And all those plastic bags, wind power, alternative energy, drones, nanotech, AI – NONE are “sustainable”.
Whoever wrote this article is an idiot.
Plus One on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 7:23 pm
> Whoever wrote this article is an idiot.
+1 – a discoverable idiot.
makati1 on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 8:14 pm
I agree guys. If he got paid for it, his boss is even more of an idiot.
Permavillage on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 8:34 pm
As Zen masters like to say, talk does not cook the rice.
Anonymouse on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 8:52 pm
“Discoverable solutions can come from the most unlikely of places, like solar-powered drones. If we can someday deploy drones to deliver merchandise, we’ll no longer need to haul groceries home in cheap, petroleum-based plastic bags. It’s only one solution, and I have no doubt there are other ways to solve the problem.”
No kidding this guy is a moron. I walk, or bike to the store, put my groceries in my backpack, (no plastic bags) and walk them home. I didn’t realize I was going about this all wrong until I read this work of genius. Why I am not using a drone to go and get the groceries for me? Damned if I know. OR, I can sit on my ass at home, getting progressively more hungry, until some innovative, forward thinking genius-type sets up a service that utilizes drones to fly bags of carrots and potatoes through my window and drop them in my kitchen for me.
Or, if I insist on being a stubborn early 21st century Luddite, I could just keep using my feet, bike and and backpack like the hippie-dippy liberals do. Which costs me, nothing, and does not involve any bags.
I suspect the moron that wrote this doesn’t shop much for food, because even if you take disposable bags out of the equation, the food itself, uses a LOT of plastic and styro, which is a lot harder to avoid.
Q: Will the drones pay for my food too? I really hope so, because the cost of food is getting outrageous these days.
PSA: exceptionalturd, you’re still a complete and utter dumbass.
makati1 on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 9:17 pm
Anon, tech is an addictive religion with some who fear a world without their gods. Nervous breakdown in their future, suicide or going postal? Population reduction anyway.
We can regress to a sustainable energy level, say, 1700s to 1800s, or we can go to the other extreme and radiate the planet. I don’t see any middle ground in the future.
deadly on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 9:49 pm
You can have a ten thousand acre plantation and have no machinery to work the land. Don’t even have to have electricity, no drones, no nothing.
You will have draft animals, mules, oxen, work horses, might as well have dogs, cats, chickens, gardens.
George Washington had 317 hard working slaves that needed to be fed and clothed, the work had to be done if you were going to eat.
George had a plantation that size, Mount Vernon had a kitchen the size of a small house.
A very sustainable enterprise.
What your decarbonized world will be.
makati1 on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 10:59 pm
deadly, that is NOT what your decarbonized world will be. Soil was soil then, not chemical sand. Do you have any idea how much land it takes to feed a mule? Human slaves are history except tax slaves like you.
“Energy slaves do what human slaves and domestic animals once did, only faster and cheaper. Today instead of 500 human slaves, every American has 500 fossil-fueled energy slaves working 24/7 for them, every day of the year. These energy slaves don’t complain, don’t sleep, and don’t need to be fed, but they do leave behind a lot of waste (climate change). But they’re invisible, we think about them as much as we do the nitrogen we breathe in — 78% of air.
The slaves have also made shipping nearly free, so any actual human labor we need can be hired in the cheapest places on earth (under essentially slave labor conditions), and shipped to us by planes, trains, ships and trucks for next to nothing. The average dinner travels over 1400 miles to get to your plate in USA. But the energy slaves will soon be going away forever….”
http://energyskeptic.com/2014/energy-slaves/
“…As a direct consequence the USA can only be intransigent, strident and aggressive – while Europeans, perhaps with the memory of failed colonization in South America and other places, have no such certainty, and must retreat to renouncement, to conciliation, to intrigue, to manipulation of and alliances with third world armed forces against the US. Naturally US oil policy has become a basis for war and conquest. Naturally European enthusiasm for a ‘remake’ of Gulf War 1 has been weak – lamentable to America, to a retreating America that becomes more alien and hostile each day as it beats the war drum, promising yet more conquest, and human blood to assuage its oil hunger. This has been noted by the Muslim world – by a culture at least as old as that of Europe.” (2003)
You might want to read that article and think about your future.
I AM THE MOB on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 11:02 pm
BOOOOOOOM
https://i.redd.it/f7gjplog0q921.jpg
makati1 on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 11:07 pm
BTW deadly, doing the numbers…
321 slaves X ~100,000,000 families in the US = 32,100,000,000 slaves or more than four times the world population. Not going to work.
But there are enough Americans to support ~1,000,000 families at that rate…or the 0.1% Elite. Guess what you will be doing?
Yessah Boss! Kiss what Boss? Thank you Massah! LMAO
I AM THE MOB on Thu, 10th Jan 2019 11:11 pm
Nissan Leaf sales collapse in Ontario after incentive axed
According to Nissan Canada, it sold 695 electric vehicles in Ontario in August. By November, those sales dropped to 10. That’s not a typo. The company literally sold 10 of its Leafs.
https://driving.ca/nissan/leaf/auto-news/news/nissan-leaf-sales-collapse-in-ontario-after-incentive-axed
Dooma on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 12:37 am
If you want to change ‘sustainable’, then I suggest that we destroy everything ever written about classical economics.
Continual financial gain on a finite planet PLUS unchecked population growth should be exposed for what it is.. madness. Affluence should be scorned over a certain level.
Let’s face it, money, like power, are lethal drugs.
DerHundistLos on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 1:36 am
The Russians Welch on a Bet
Climatologist James Annan made a $10.000 wager 10 years ago with two solar physicists at the Institute of Solar-Terrestrial Physics in Russia — Galina Mashnich and Vladimir Bashkirtsev — that global temps. would NOT cool down.
The results were in awhile ago and Annan won by a convincing margin- it wasn’t even close; however, the two Russian denialist scientists refuse to pay-up, as should any honorable person.
What does this say about Russians and denialists?
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/2018/10/the-bet-final-outcome.html
DerHundistLos on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 1:55 am
“We are now feeding twice as many people as we did in the 1930s using 12 percent less land.”
Any person with only a rudimentary understanding of agriculture knows this is untrue as it relates to global land use.
My question is why are these magical solutions not being implemented, if it’s the solution to all out problems?
Total BS article.
Harquebus on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:41 am
We are going down. I can see it now.
Anonymouse on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:56 am
But hund, according the article, the uS is a also a net exporter of OIL. insidesources sounds as reliable as it gets and clearly has a proven track record of providing only factual, and verifiable information.
No reason to doubt ‘we’ grow 2x the food, with less land is there if they say it is so. The writer hardly sound like the type to just randomly pull any old bullshit out of his ass and pass it off as truth, right?
Remember kids, there is absolutely NO penalty whatsoever, for printing patently false information in the jewnited snakes anymore. If there ever was. None whatsoever. Unless maybe, you happening to be slandering someone with a lot more money than you. Then yea, penalties. Otherwise,its one giant fact-free torrent of non-stop bullshit no matter the source.
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 6:43 am
If we look at the concept of sustainability both systematically and in the context of ecosystems this word takes on its true meaning for humans. The basis of sustainability is the dependence on daily solar energy which can be utilized by planetary activity, heating, and organic growth. This would be the wind and water influenced by solar energy. The heating of matter by the sun such as the atmosphere, land and water. The growth of organic life processing the solar energy. We have the influence of solar energy through planetary processes of wind, water, and land. This creates ecosystems of organic food chains of growth. Biodiversity then enters the definition with the organic action of processing solar energy through an ecosystem through steps that build upon a chain of communities that produce food and process waste. We have planetary system cycling chemically with cycles such as the hydrologic, nutrient, and carbon cycle along with the influence of the planetary web of life. This sustainable process is planetary and organic with the daily bathing of solar energy that stimulates the process. A sustainable system also involves organic succession with evolution and extinction. It is succession that allows an ecosystem to follow and adapt to the ever changing planetary system. The planetary system contributes a succession of geologic and climate activity to an ecosystem sustainability or there would be no activity stimulating the process. That was of course just a snapshot of a very big picture.
We see then that sustainability goes deeper than just human considerations. Humans can be sustainable only by fitting into this greater planetary ecosystem in a true sense of the word. Yet, if one considers evolution and extinction as part of this succession then it does not matter what we do we are part of the process whether we destroy it or help build it up. For our discussion as mortal humans who desire to live and prosper then we can look at sustainability as actions that maintains and continues our lives. This ultimately involves our human community contributing to the health of the greater process. Humans are uniquely equipped to build up or destroy our connection to the greater ecosystem. This then is our subject of sustainability and that is survival.
We modern humans have self-conscious intelligence reflecting on this process. In this respect then we need wisdom to guide our actions to maintain a healthy ecosystem that provides sustainability. This wisdom would dictate which knowledge to follow and which not to follow in relationship to what is sustainable for our greater ecosystem. This would be centered on planetary respect that involves scaling our species and individual footprint accordingly. Intelligence requires wisdom because intelligence interjects dualistic responses that create separation. This separation comes from intelligence making judgements of choice that may or may not be good for the ecosystem.
Today we are unsustainable in multiple spheres that can only be understood through ascending levels of abstraction. Most of our intelligence is unwisely applied to further the species and individual at the expense of the greater ecosystem. This forced disturbance was once minor with a population under 500MIL but now with 7BIL living technological lives succession has gone wild in tempo and effect. Humans now are the primary succession process by making the ecosystem ours and by adapting the planet to our needs. We are changing climate and planetary cycles at a rapid pace. We are basically trapped in this self-organizing human process of 7BIL individual choices. It appears but is beyond our knowing, this destructive human process can no longer be adapted without a species and ecosystem bottleneck. We have very few awakened humans to this holistic situation. Science is partially awakened but also corrupted by goal seeking solutions that are enhancing the predicament of more of the same.
It may be the case that intelligence is ultimately an evolutionary dead-end. It may be the case that true wisdom will be the result of this apparent planetary bottleneck that is reducing organic life to its very basic state in rapidly declining complexity. We may learn a valuable lesson and once we have passed through the bottleneck and come out the other side we will be a new species of postmodern humans with adapted intelligence. This intelligence will have advanced to a new level or returned to its proper level. We may also revert to our premodern state of wandering bands of hunter gatherers scavenging a postmodern human disrupted planet. This is not making a value judgment on premodern humans. It may be the case that intelligence should be at this level and not at higher so called modern levels. The planet will make this determination. We may also go extinct and intelligence will reform. It is likely self-conscious intelligence is innate to the complexity of life. Humans with their combination of prefrontal cortex and reptilian brain may just have been a poor vector for intelligence if we go extinct.
We as a people are now at the point of a human induced paradigm shift to our planetary system and the web of life. Even though we are trapped as individuals in consequences of our collective actions you as an individual can seek out the truly sustainable as part of this resulting awakening. It appears intelligence seeks out meaning. For an individual an awakening to the truth is this meaning. This awakening appears to be about lifeboats to the other side and it is about hospices for those who will not pass. It is about assembling wisdom for those who make the trip. This wisdom is the best of our accumulated knowledge digested according to sustainability. The greatest knowledge is the wisdom of the humility of the failure of human knowledge. It is about acceptance of loss and the resulting call to action of survival from our awareness of failure.
Unsustainable fat bastard of the North on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 6:54 am
The use of the word sustainable has become completey unsustainable. In order to sustain such a seriously high supply of sustainabililty would require serious sustenance to subscribers and writers.
Now why dont you all just fuck off!
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 8:01 am
The only truly sustainable resources on planet Earth are bio-renewable ones, based upon plants and animal tissues. One could also reasonably argue that materials based on stone and clay is sustainable.
‘Lower impact’ is perhaps a better turn of phrase, although somewhat loose in its meaning. It can be thought of in terms of impact on the natural ecosystem and in terms of consumption of resources.
Anonymouse on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 8:13 am
Wtf, did the goats tell you they had a headache or what dumbass? Just who are writing these rambling long winded, turd-salads of yours for? Its longer than that useless article, which most of us only glanced at once it was readily apparent, it was a pile of goatshit. Then you amble along, and decide what is needed, is yet ANOTHER, of your rambling, disjointed diatribes.
Guess what? Its content is going to get even less attention than this shit article, so, who ya trying to impress again?
You need to find a hobby, a real one. Or something constructive to do with yourself. Like, clean up that horror-show fantasy farm of yours would be a good start. Mak was kind enough to give you some links to free-mental health care clinics in your swampland state, you(and mob) should get on that. Like, now. Put down the internet and, go get some help.
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 8:47 am
Living like Romans?
One way of building a renewable energy based economy in a way that keeps costs down is to adopt communal solutions. There were plenty of examples of this in the ancient world that provide inspiration for the future.
Excavations of Pompeii and Herculaneum, confirm that many Roman houses had no kitchens, washrooms or toilets. Many had running water, but many others did not. They were essentially sleeping areas that doubled as living rooms in day time. Yet these people were generally well nourished, washed and disease was not rampant. How did they manage?
Food preparation was carried out in large communal kitchens, which opened into takeaway restaurants onto the street – not unlike McDonalds today, but generally serving healthier foods. Many people would buy food off the street, eat it there or take it home.
Washing in Rome was a communal activity and the baths were generally open to all citizens. There were public toilets that were generally available to all. Water was available from public fountains in the squares. Washing of clothes was also a centralised activity. Food storage generally did not take place in the home unless it was well to do.
This may suggest some valuable insights into how to affordably adapt to renewable energy sources in a more sustainable economy. The common energy requirements of day to day living are dominated by heat, for cooking, heating, wash water, clothes washing, etc. Ultimately, this energy will need to come from the wind and sun. But wind and sunlight are not available all the time. One solution is to build communal facilities for these functions that make use of storage.
For example, instead of having a bathroom in each house, a community bathhouse could be built serving dozens or hundreds of houses. The communal bathhouse is large enough to take advantage of seasonal heat storage. Water would be heated by solar heating panels in the spring, summer and autumn and stored in an insulated tank, providing warm water for washing throughout the year.
A laundrette could be constructed to the same principle. A single facility would carry out laundry services for hundreds of homes. Seasonal stored hot water would supply the washing machines. Mechanical power could be provided by a wind turbine built into the facility, providing hydraulic power which would operate the machines. A large scale wind machine with a power of hundreds of kW would have good EROI and the use of simple hydraulics without need for electrical systems would benefit EROI further.
A seasonal thermal store on a large scale would be nothing more complex than a large underground tank, using the surrounding soil as insulation. When the temperature the solar panels gets above the temperature of water in the tank, a pump activates, and fluid is pumped through heating coils, transferring heat from the panel to the tank.
Cooking could also take place in large communal kitchens. A single large hotstore made from stone and insulated by layers of sand and earth, would be constructed in public restaurants and maybe even shared between restaurants, with each kitchen backing onto it. The hot store could be heated by concentrated solar power or heating elements drawing intermittent energy from a wind turbine. A hot store built from granite with dimensions 5x5x3m, will release about 6000kWh of heat as it cools from 300 to 200 centigrade. That is enough to power a large oven for about 1000 hours.
Even toilets could be communal if it becomes difficult to sustain running water to houses. In a relatively compact urban environment, it would greatly simplify plumbing requirements. Outputs from a common toilet block could be directly plumbed into an anaerobic digester, producing fertiliser for local allotments and biogas.
The challenge of a renewable energy economy begins to look like far less of a challenge the more human beings are able to pool resources and cooperate at a local level.
Sissyfuss on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:20 am
If the Limits To Growth study had discovered discoverability perhaps they wouldn’t have been so lugubrious and sullen. All one needs do is change the verbiage and you shall change your circumstances. Like Cloggendogger.
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 10:31 am
Thanks for the attention anon. I judge some of the impact of my comments on how upset they leave mentally handicap individuals like you. Your very long and angry response means mission accomplished. Lol. Here is some advice Anon if it hurts don’t read it and especially don’t make a big deal about it. It just makes you look like more of a fool than you already are.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 10:54 am
Unfortunately history has shown fear is a very strong motivator. Trump has successfully created a world of fear for his followers. Whether it be illegals, democrats, or even school kids, they are all after the republicans to force change upon them. This has created a passionate following of people looking for Trump to protect them.
https://i.imgur.com/V59Qy4f.jpg
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 11:05 am
“Living like Romans?”
Good comment and saved to my notes
Anonymouse on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 3:16 pm
ROFL, what part of no one reads your 2000 turd-salads dont you get? And just what exactly is this ‘mission’ of yours anyhow? To prove what bloviating nuttter you are? We all know this already.
OK, mission accomplished, I’ll give you that one.
Dumbass.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 3:35 pm
Missouri city moves giant cross off public land after atheist group complains
https://www.foxnews.com/faith-values/missouri-city-moves-giant-cross-off-public-land-after-atheist-group-complains
This is Davy’s great state..And I was just reading about all the relgious cults in the ozarks..Tons of them where a cult leader has dozens of wives..And the funny thing they always end up raping the young girls of the cult…
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 3:45 pm
Residents help motorist escape NYPD tow truck — call tow truck driver ‘loser’
https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/ny-metro-residents-help-tow-truck-driver-escape-20190111-story.html
Kill whitey! A loser!
Cloggie on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 3:50 pm
New offshore wind technology installation technique: “Blue Piling”
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2019/01/11/blue-piling-reduces-offshore-wind-installation-cost/
Environmentally friendly, very little under water noise. We don’t want deaf herrings on our plate, now do we?
#TechnicalUniversityEindhoven
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:07 pm
Clogg
Renewable energy ‘simply won’t work’: Top Google engineers
Windmills, solar, tidal – all a ‘false hope’, say Stanford PhDs
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/21/renewable_energy_simply_wont_work_google_renewables_engineers/
Cloggie on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:30 pm
“Renewable energy ‘simply won’t work’: Top Google engineers”
They are wrong, I just googled it up:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2019/01/11/dutch-grid-cant-take-more-solar-power/
So many people want to invest in solar power but the grid is the bottleneck (will be solved in a couple of years with new cables).
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:36 pm
Mob, I grow tired of your inability to learn new things. These are the same links you’ve been posting for years. Do you even read what others post here? Why are you here?
To recap, we have already established that renewable energy will not support the American way of life. Not that the American way of life is worth shit. It will support a scaled down version of the European way of life. And it would do a perfectly good job of supporting a Roman way of life, which is based around shared public utilities.
Different energy source means different way of life. They shape the societies that depend upon them. Free portable energy in the form of fossil fuels, led to a glutinous and self-destructive way of life. Living well on renewable energy will require a certain amount of social cooperation. Maybe it won’t be such a disaster after all.
Cloggie on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:46 pm
Don’t bother, you can’t fix stupid.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 4:56 pm
Antius
Remember when you said the Cons would take the house because of Zerohedge? LOL Now shut your fucking face..
When the oil shortage hits its game over..
And will be going burning and looting!
https://medium.com/@Cliffhanger1983/the-collapse-of-civilization-manifesto-2039c6a5327
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 5:02 pm
“Remember when you said the Cons would take the house because of Zerohedge? LOL Now shut your fucking face..”
Are you a robot? Would you like some WD-40?
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 5:02 pm
“Zero Mass Water’s Hydropanels Pull Water From Thin Air”
https://tinyurl.com/ybfyylfy
“A Source hydropanel is, “a thing that looks like a solar panel, but instead of electricity, it makes fine drinking water with sunlight and air only,” according to Cody. You just slap them on the roof, face them towards the sun and they start producing perfect, drinkable water. Typical installations will see the onboard 30-liter water reservoir plumbed into the home to a drinking tap or even directly to a refrigerator.”
“That’s great, but it really doesn’t mean anything if they can’t scale or aren’t economically viable for those who need them most. Cody was quick to jump on my skepticism that a $2,000 hydropanel could possibly be economically viable and started down the line to fill me in with the cost of ownership details. For the product itself, the water it produces over its estimated 15-year lifespan nets out to 15 cents per liter.”
Cloggie on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 5:41 pm
““That’s great, but it really doesn’t mean anything if they can’t scale or aren’t economically viable for those who need them most. Cody was quick to jump on my skepticism that a $2,000 hydropanel could possibly be economically viable and started down the line to fill me in with the cost of ownership details. For the product itself, the water it produces over its estimated 15-year lifespan nets out to 15 cents per liter.””
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi123416/ah-mineraalwater-koolzuurvrij
In many places water is incredible valuable=expensive. Produce water where it is needed.
Cheaper though is seawater in the desert: evaporate it in greenhouses:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/sea-water-green-houses-in-the-desert/
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 5:42 pm
“Zero Mass Water’s Hydropanels Pull Water From Thin Air”
Cool. Atmospheric condensers. Good news for desert people, far from the coast. Although 15¢ per litre sounds cheap, that is $150 per cubic metre. Take a look at annual per capita water usage from the link below.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/263156/water-consumption-in-selected-countries/
Germany is one of the most efficient countries, at 300 cubic metres per year. That would cost $45,000 per person per year if it all came from those panels.
So the panels allow basic survival levels of water consumption. But for people in very arid climates, an extra couple of litres of water per day could be a very valuable resource. Generally, it would allow people to live where life would otherwise be impossible.
I bet economy of scale would bring costs down. Just as utility grade solar is much cheaper than rooftop solar, so these panels would probably be more affordable in large, centralised moisture farms.
Antius on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 5:55 pm
“Cheaper though is seawater in the desert: evaporate it in greenhouses:”
The salt would presumably be a valuable by product. It is fascinating to think, that with enough greenhouse space and with enough concrete pipes, bringing water from the Atlantic; we could literally green the Sahara. Greenhouses are expensive. But there are Victorian era greenhouses still used today. So presumably, a modest rate of investment, could eventually green enormous areas of land.
makati1 on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 6:01 pm
More techie dreams but impossible to scale up to usable numbers. LMAO
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 6:05 pm
The new Wolverine movie isn’t looking to good
https://i.imgur.com/9aQAYEb.jpg
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 6:16 pm
Waaaa! People are getting desensitized to my fearmongering! (Poor me)
https://i.imgur.com/J1FxlSI.jpg
The boy who cried “wall”
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 8:57 pm
“Not that the American way of life is worth shit. It will support a scaled down version of the European way of life.”
Thanks AntiUS. Another good comment and saved to my notes.
The American way of life sucks ass big time. European life is golden. Let’s all hope that this shithole of a country collapses, and soon.
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:03 pm
European way of life my ass..
It Will Take 131 Years To Replace Oil, And We’ve Only Got 2
https://www.businessinsider.com/131-years-to-replace-oil-2010-11
Existing oil reserves are scheduled to begin a catastrophic crash within 1 to 3 years. When it hits the economic and social damage will be catastrophic. The end of Western Civilization, from China to Europe, to the US, will not occur when oil runs out. The economic and social chaos will occur when supplies are merely reduced sufficiently….
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1708.03150.pdf
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/has-peak-oil-already-happened/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0301421509001281
https://www.scribd.com/document/375110698/The-end-of-Peak-Oil-Why-this-topic-is-still-relevant-despite-recent-denials-Chapman-2014
https://www.scribd.com/document/375110317/Projection-of-World-Fossil-Fuels-by-Country-Mohr-2015
http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017
https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/03/23/is-the-world-sleepwalking-into-an-oil-crisis/#509edc8b44cf
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:09 pm
Stick around MOB and enjoy that bullet to the head. Me and the wife are moving to Europe. Us one percenters have options. You do not.
LMFAO!
This was JuanP on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:10 pm
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 8:57 pm
This is Juan on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:11 pm
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:09 pm
I AM THE MOB on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:16 pm
Davy
You can run from Malthus but you can’t hide..
Davy on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:39 pm
SLOB, I don’t need to run from anyone. I have a Learjet.
Try outrunning a Learjet. Dumbass
makati1 on Fri, 11th Jan 2019 9:56 pm
Davy’s “Lear Jet” is the paper folded kind made from an ad page with the pic of a Lear Jet.
Past your bed time isn’t it Davy? Maybe trouble sleeping in your “secure” US? The drugs aren’t working? Awww!
BTW: Last time I checked Italy was worse off than the US and that is saying something. Do you speak Arabic? Bow to Mecca five times a day? But you do know how to herd goats, maybe. lol
“Muslims face Mecca to pray five times a day. These prayers occur at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset and nightfall.” https://www.reference.com/world-view/many-times-day-muslims-face-mecca-pray-allah-2e2d2108b5ef28a7