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Page added on September 15, 2017
Reducing the World’s Population by Having Fewer Children, What’s the Problem?
The Summer Academy of the Club of Rome saw an interesting debate when a young participant (Jacques Chartier-Kastler) asked to take the floor and speak about what he and his group were seeing as a problem: the current tendency of having fewer children. He showed data about the resulting unbalanced age distribution with too many old people who turn out to be a burden for society. And he said that having such an unbalanced distribution could be a disaster in the case of an economic downturn or even a collapse.
Jorgen Randers produced a strong response to this presentation. I am reporting from memory, but I think I am being faithful to the gist of what Randers said, which was something like this:
“Young man, you gave a very bad presentation. I think it was truly horrible and you should stop giving it. You see, the problem you are presenting is a completely fake problem. It comes from the fact that, in the past, an agreement had developed in most Western societies that the families would provide for children, whereas the state would support the elderly. Now, of course, with more old people, the state must pay more. But we forget that having fewer children the burden for families – and for society – is much reduced. So, there is a simple solution to what you see as a problem: raise the retirement age. That’s what my country, Norway, did. They leave citizens to choose when to retire, but they give favorable conditions to those who retire later. And most citizens decide to retire at a late age. Look at me: I am 72 years old, I am still working and I think I’ll keep working until I turn 85; then maybe I’ll retire. But I keep working and I am not living on a pension, so I am not a burden for society. And I am still caring for my 99-year old mother, who is not a burden for the younger generations. So, the problem you pose is mostly of our own creation and it vanishes when compared with the much larger and difficult problem of overpopulation. We need to take into account that there exist limits to growth and that if we want to solve the problem of overpopulation, we need to have fewer children.”
This story is interesting for various reasons. Perhaps Randers was too harsh on Jacques Chartier-Kastler, who wasn’t saying that we should keep having many children. But it is remarkable how emotionally charged the issue of population is. For some people, any effort aimed at reducing the burden of the human population on the ecosystem amounts to little less than a sacrilege. An insult to the human right to dominate everything which is not human.
On the reasons for this attitude, I can say little, but it seems to be rather common. I was surprised to see it appearing in a meeting dedicated to sustainability and, surely, it has to be even more common outside the world of people concerned with this subject. As a further example of this humanocentric attitude, I think it is appropriate to reproduce here a post that I published last year on “Cassandra’s Legacy”
(note: Jacques Chartier-Kastler’s presentation is available upon request, just ask me – ugo.bardi(thingette)unifi.it)
Saturday, June 18, 2016
If Switzerland had a Sahara Desert, it would be a small Africa. Does the world really have an “overpopulation problem”?
Dealing with such issues as oil depletion and climate change is already politically and emotionally charged but, at least, these are physical problems that we can examine using the scientific method. But overpopulation? It is the perfect recipe for an instant politicized quarrel.
The movie “Population Boom” by Werner Boote is a good example of how emotional the population question can become. It starts almost immediately with a potshot at the Reverend Malthus, accused to “have predicted a catastrophe for 1860” (something that poor Malthus never said.). Then, it goes on for one hour and a half in the attempt to demonstrate that there is no such a thing as an “overpopulation problem.” Rather, the film’s thesis is that the world is seeing a conspiracy by the elites of the rich countries who are trying to stop the people in poor countries from having as many children as they want so that they could become rich, too, and challenge the world dominance of the present elites.
If we accept the idea that all opinions are legitimate, then also this one should be – even though probably a bit too extreme for most of us. The problem is that the way the film tries to demonstrate its thesis oscillates between the boring and the silly; without ever providing a serious argument. Mainly, we see the filmmaker, Mr. Werner Boote, walking around while carrying his umbrella in places where it never seems to rain. In his ramblings, Mr. Boote interviews people who, frankly, don’t seem to have a clue about overpopulation, except for seeing it as an invention of the evil Western Elites (and the same is true for global warming, explicitly defined as such in one of the interviews).
Most of the arguments made in these interviews are so silly that they are not even worth deconstructing. Just as an example, in a scene we see Mr. Boote (for once without his umbrella) discussing with a man who tells him that Africa is not overpopulated because it has only 40 inhabitants per square km, compared with the 170 of Europe. Then, the man takes Boote somewhere on top of a hill and he shows him an empty landscape, saying, “do you see? Africa is not overpopulated!”
Now, there are several problems here. First, the numbers are wrong, at least in part. The datum for the population density in Africa seems to be correct, but the population density in Europe is 105 inhabitants per square km, not 170. Maybe Mr. Boote’s informant meant Western Europe, but if you take that as meaning the European Union, then the population density still is only 116. Then, one would be tempted to remind to Mr. Boote’s informant that Europe doesn’t have a Sahara desert; to say nothing about the Kalahari desert and other areas unsuitable for human occupation in Africa. So, he conveniently forgets that an African country such as Nigeria has about the same density of population as Switzerland (nearly 200 people per square km), to say nothing about Rwanda, that has 460 people per square km (more than twice than Switzerland). Finally, one could show to Mr. Boote and to his informant the Yosemite Valley or the Death Valley and then tell them: “you see? Almost no one lives in California!
I could go on, but I think this is enough for this movie. Let me just add that if you think that the poor do not pollute the ecosystem, you would do well reading this post by Jacopo Simonetta.
59 Comments on "Reducing the World’s Population by Having Fewer Children, What’s the Problem?"
Davy on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 7:56 am
How many academic economist and social scientist will it take and how long before the population predicament is accepted. One of these days it will just be a given or we may be so wrapped up in crisis it is not even given a second thought. We have a problem with consumption and population. These are predicaments. Humans are not capable of draconian population decisions like the mass skipping a generation or “permitting” children through “Big Brother”. We are not going to limit population except around the edges but nature will. There are too many conflicting ideologies that draw on their own science and emotions. There are too many sky daddy worshippers. Nothing wrong with religion until you use it to justify things as a replacement for science. Many times science is fantasy futures based and embellished predictions. Techno optimist are so good at this. “If you build it they will come” bull shit. It is so often theoretical and not reality based. Science is acknowledge then the solutions are science denial.
Consumption is likewise a predicament. If we were to take draconian steps to lower consumption we will commit a huge amount of the global population to an earlier death. If you realize how interconnected the global economy is with far flung supply chains in economies of scale productivity then lubricated with confidence based global financing you have to worry. Child mortality and premature deaths will skyrocket. This is because we are a globally “too” connected civilization that supports 7BIL in overshoot through collective complexity. Even those so called noble 3rd world subsistence farmers some here cry crocodile tears for, are in danger of mega population regions depopulating. This is a global problem. It is systematic. It is human. It is not going to be fixed. It will be adapted to and adjusted to. It will be very painful and sad. This will not be fair. It will also be a matter of luck. Rich areas are just as exposed and have the furthest to fall. Poor areas may just die away. Get a grip scientist and academic. Nature bats last and nature is not into the theoretical and fantasy. She is real.
JuanP on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 7:57 am
This is a lost fight. In today’s world every generation of humans is less smart than the previous one. People smart enough to control their breeding have less children than people incapable of doing so. The human population is growing faster than ever. Last year we added more people than ever before; this year we will add even more. The human population will keep growing until it can’t. By then we will have made most, if not all, the planet uninhabitable. Most people lack the intelligence,knowledge, and understanding necessary to comprehend the consequences of their breeding unsustainably. I had a Vasectomy and no children. Maybe one in a million men do that voluntarily and we are breeding ourselves out. Babies are born to people that breed. We are just like bacteria, viruses, and cockroaches but we like thinking that we are smarter and special. WE ARE NOT! If stupid is as stupid does then we are as stupid as it is possible to be. I am so glad I didn’t have any kids!
Laci on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 8:52 am
Generally, people take offence to white people having children. God forbid we reached natural replacement rate! They feel we should commit to racial replacement through mass-colonization instead They seem to think that all of the world’s problems will disappear once the white people are gone. This cult of racial self-loathing has no parallel in human history.
Cloggie on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 9:21 am
This cult of racial self-loathing has no parallel in human history.
Indeed.
Ingredients:
Christianity
Frankfurter Schule: PC = cultural Marxism
holocult
slavery
US deep state
Modern means of mass transport
They seem to think that all of the world’s problems will disappear once the white people are gone.
If we do not destroy the US empire, white people are toast.
Let’s ignore empire water carriers like Davy and get the job done.
fmr-paultard on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 9:28 am
eurotard if you want to destroy the US why don’t you recruit your own and leave my Cambridge Five/supertards alone? Motivate your own eurotards by self affirmation, tell them they’re supermen.
Cloggie on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 9:49 am
eurotard if you want to destroy the US why don’t you recruit your own and leave my Cambridge Five/supertards alone? Motivate your own eurotards by self affirmation, tell them they’re supermen.
Yanktard, never said that. You are perfectly capable of destroying the US all by yourself with your insane migration policies.
I was talking about the US empire.
In 1989 the Soviets left Poland, Hungary, Romania, etc.
The idea is that the US leaves Europe in a similar fashion and gets its bases removed. And likewise in the rest of Eurasia.
A sort of inverse Monroe doctrine: Eurasia for the Eurasians.
Nothing wrong with that or is it?
Good luck conquering Siberia, by your women, you crackhead.lol
Duncan Idaho on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 9:57 am
We turned a lot of oil into people.
This is coming to a end—-
Go Speed Racer on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 11:13 am
The problem with having fewer kids, is Whitey
has zero, but the mooslim on on welfare has 8.
So what do you think is gonna happen.
onlooker on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 11:39 am
Yes overpopulation is the root of so many of our problems. Of course many of us tend to make this situation worse via intolerance, bigotry and lack of compassion
Antius on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 11:50 am
“Yes overpopulation is the root of so many of our problems. Of course many of us tend to make this situation worse via intolerance, bigotry and lack of compassion”
Onlooker, How do intolerance, bigotry and lack of compassion make overpopulation worse? Can those things get women pregnant? 🙂
GregT on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 12:08 pm
“Yes overpopulation is the root of so many of our problems.”
And at the root of the overpopulation problem is one of surplus energy.
GregT on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 12:15 pm
“How do intolerance, bigotry and lack of compassion make overpopulation worse?”
How do any of them make overpopulation better?
baha on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 12:42 pm
I think the point is…not only are there too many people, most of them are assholes 🙂
It would be better if we could get along and agree on a goal.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 12:57 pm
Over population & overshoot are built in. Evolutionary. It’s self solving. As the process of collapse speeds up more & more humans will be externalized by cancer capitalism.
Harvey’s Poorest Victims Will Never Rebuild. They’re Getting Evicted.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2017/09/harveys-poorest-victims-will-never-rebuild-theyre-getting-evicted/
Sissyfuss on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 1:47 pm
Most humans hear what they want to hear. Their high regard for themselves (Clogagagaga) never allow them to take responsibility for their actions. They continue to blame the decline in lifes quality on those that don’t agree with them. As the song says, they didn’t listen then, I guess they never will.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:36 pm
I used the same tobacco analogy not long ago. Perhaps the author is among my many fans?
“No, it’s not possible to assert with mathematical certainty that hurricanes Harvey and Irma were caused by global warming. It’s also not possible to stipulate exactly which carton of Camels brought about my father’s lung cancer. Only that his 40 year, two-packs-a-day tobacco habit shortened his life by a decade or more.
Although the tobacco companies once resisted the evidence as vigorously (and dishonestly) as Koch Industries and the rest now fight climate science, nobody argues about it anymore.”
http://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/lyons-climate-change-deniers-are-the-new-marlboro-men/
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:39 pm
Derrick Jensen Resistance Radio w/ James Howard Kunstler – September 3, 2017- audio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx56AvMGrAA
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:41 pm
Self solving.
An estimated 12.6 million deaths each year are attributable to unhealthy environments
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2016/deaths-attributable-to-unhealthy-environments/en/
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:45 pm
“For the first time in 300 years, there’s not a single living person on the island of Barbuda — a civilization that has existed on that island for over 300 years has now been extinguished.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/14/barbuda-hurricane-irama-devastation/665950001/
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:49 pm
Pentagon Moves Ahead With Obama-Era Climate Preparation Plan Despite Trump’s Orders
“s Military Times reports, the Pentagon is plowing ahead with its 2014 “Climate Change Adaptation Roadmap” even though Trump issued an executive order in March seeking to reverse Obama-era federal climate and clean energy initiatives.
Under Obama’s orders, the Defense Department issued directive 4715.21 in January 2016 to implement the roadmap, which “lays out reasonable adaptation and mitigation actions to ensure or at least bolster our national security against measured and measurable climate change events, whatever the causes, or the duration, of the observed events,” as retired Navy Adm. Frank Bowman said.
But now—thanks to Trump–the agency is reviewing directive 4715.21 “to determine if it should be suspended, revised, or rescinded,” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Cmdr. Patrick Evans told the publication.
However, the department is still preparing for the effects of climate change even though Trump told them to stop.”
https://www.ecowatch.com/pentagon-climate-change-2485164596.html
Finally the defense dept is actually and rightly defending Americans from REAL threats.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 2:57 pm
The idea that climate scientists are in it for the cash has deep ideological roots
Graham Readfearn
Author and academic Nancy MacLean says cynicism about the motives of public servants, including government-backed climate scientists, can be traced to a group of neoliberals and their ‘toxic’ ideas
“The book documents how wealthy conservatives, in particular petrochemical billionaire Charles Koch, teamed up with neoliberal academics with the objective, MacLean says, of undermining the functions of government in the United States.
MacLean’s central character is the late James McGill Buchanan, a political theorist and economist who won a Nobel award in 1986 for his development of “public choice theory”.
Buchanan and Koch developed and propagated their ideas through a private organisation called the Mont Pelerin Society (MPS) – an influential group known as the “neoliberal thought collective” that was established in 1947 by famed free market economist Friedrich Hayek. Buchanan was a former president and joined in 1957. Koch, who has poured millions into groups attacking mainstream climate science, joined MPS in 1970.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2017/sep/15/the-idea-that-climate-scientists-are-in-it-for-the-cash-has-deep-ideological-roots
Like I said, Soro’s is not the only meddling & dangerous billionaire, but the conservatards and alt right retards are completely silent when it comes to the Koch bros et al. It’s why they have no creditability. Who’s in it for the money? Follow it.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 3:04 pm
Doubt over climate science is a product with an industry behind it
With its roots in the tobacco industry, climate science denial talking points can be seen as manufactured doubt
“It’s a product that you can find in newspaper columns and TV talk shows and in conversations over drinks, at barbecues, in taxi rides and in political speeches.
You can find this product in bookstores, on sponsored speaking tours, in the letters pages of local newspapers and even at United Nations climate change talks.
This product is doubt – doubt about the causes and impacts of climate change, the impartiality of climate scientists, the world’s temperature records, the height of the oceans and basic atmospheric physics.
There’s doubt too about the “agenda” of policy makers and government environment agencies and a continued attempt to politicise climate science as “leftist”.
There’s also doubt over the role renewable energy might play now and in the future.
Yet where it matters most, in the leading scientific journals in the world, any doubt that burning fossil fuels is causing the planet to heat up is almost nowhere to be seen.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/planet-oz/2015/mar/05/doubt-over-climate-science-is-a-product-with-an-industry-behind-it
Perhaps rockman’s “consumers” would have made different choices if they had not been exposed to a 30 year, machine gun, denial liar campaign? We will never know because the kings of cancer poisoned the worlds minds.
fmr-paultard on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 3:20 pm
http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-mt-mother-teresa-was-not-a-friend-of-the-poor-she-was-a-friend-of-poverty-she-said-that-christopher-hitchens-63-8-0857.jpg
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 3:38 pm
The chance of ‘catastrophic’ climate change completely wiping out humanity by 2100 is now 1-in-20
-Experts performed calculations based on temperatures rising by 2100
-They created two new categories to classify the impacts of their findings
-An increase greater than 3°C could lead to ‘catastrophic’ devastating effects
-More than 5°C rise in heat could result in ‘unknown’ apocalyptic consequences
-They equate this with a one-in-twenty chance that the plane you fly aboard on holiday will crash
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4888574/1-20-chance-climate-change-wipe-humanity.html
More like 50/50 with the clock ticking.
Thank goodness there are ‘top men’ looking out for you.
Trump dismisses climate change question by contradicting himself on hurricanes
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/14/politics/trump-climate-change-hurricanes/index.html
gdcyvihfvhcfhchgjhksrdfxgx on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 4:53 pm
Sterilize 90% of the population starting with global wormmongers on this site. Ugly, stupid degenerates should stay out of the gene pool. The genetically sound need to be in breeding camps trying to regenerate the human race.
Harquebus on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 5:03 pm
“Look at me: I am 72 years old, I am still working and I think I’ll keep working until I turn 85; then maybe I’ll retire. But I keep working and I am not living on a pension, so I am not a burden for society.”
Consuming resources just because one can contributes to the unsustainable burden placed on the natural world.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 6:24 pm
gdcyvihfvhcfhchgjhksrdfxgx, read it and weep cock sucker. Your Doom is upon you. You’ll get it soon enough.
Nearly 2 million acres of land are burning across the US in one of the worst fire seasons we’ve ever seen
http://www.businessinsider.com/wildfire-season-western-us-2017-9
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 6:34 pm
gdcyvihfvhcfhchgjhksrdfxgx, oh look. Another record smashed all to hell – AGW jacked wildfires. Whoever would have predicted such a thing? Whoever would have predicted that AGW gonna break the bank?
US wildfire costs hit record $2.3 billion; season isn’t over
http://www.timescolonist.com/us-wildfire-costs-hit-record-2-3-billion-season-isn-t-over-1.22716953
OMG, the level of the denier-kilers conative dissonance is going through the roof and their anger at having the obvious consequences even mentioned is sending many into a fury. Their anger & hate vibes are rattling the internet.LMAO
Since it’s their very ideology on the line, their very being, it appears to be another ‘cold dead hand’ scenario and they will drag everyone down with them including their own. Humans.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 6:37 pm
Deniers hate grandma & grandpa.
This week eight residents of a single Florida nursing home with its power knocked out from Hurricane Irma died within hours of each other. Indeed, the elderly are often the first victims in extreme weather events.
It is time we reconsider the wisdom of caring for people who are the most sensitive to the changing climate in homes that are situated at the very epicenter of the change.
http://gantdaily.com/2017/09/14/doctor-nursing-home-deaths-show-the-risks-of-being-old-in-florida/
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 6:39 pm
The other half of the denier disasters
Abandon Florida? Not quite. But it’s time for a retreat from flood zones.
“When you hear about a house in Houston, assessed at $72,400, that has received more than $1 million in payouts through the federal flood insurance program, it’s only natural to ask, “Why did we ever build there?”
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/9/14/16304730/flooding-irma-houston-retreat-floodplains-buyouts
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 6:55 pm
Ap, flood insurance is just one of the many government subsidies to the teat suckers that are going to disappear and when that happens, few, if any flooded areas will ever be rebuilt. A good thing.
Two more hurricanes are forming off of Africa. Africa’s payback for the slave trade? And Jose could still hit the US anywhere along the coast. Maybe the hurricane ‘dry’ season is over? LOL
Davy on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 7:14 pm
“Ap, flood insurance is just one of the many government subsidies to the teat suckers that are going to disappear and when that happens, few, if any flooded areas will ever be rebuilt. A good thing.”
Makat, you are a subsidy. We are sending you money for nothing so you can sit around the pool in your Makati, Manila condo and talk bad about the west as you live a western lifestyle. What a crock of shit. You are the biggest teat sucking chump on this board.
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 7:32 pm
Davy, I am just receiving the money I was forced to pay in over about 50 years of employment. At 3% average interest over those years, I am still in the red by about 5 years. I am just getting my savings back. I plan to take every cent and then more, if it lasts that long, as compensation for the loss of that income various ties, that caused problems in my life. BTW: No lawyers required to collect.
YOU are the leech as I am sure your life style is subsidized in hundreds of ways being an American and a farmer. Thanks for paying your taxes. I will spend them wisely. LOL
There you go again with the name calling and putdowns. Will you ever learn that they are meaningless/useless? I doubt it.
Davy on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 7:45 pm
Makat, you are part of a generation of failure. Your generation could have changed things and didn’t. You should be made to work without free money. Instead you are getting something for nothing and doing nothing. All you do is bad mouth the country sending you money.. The system is broke and you are part of the reason it is broke. You deserve nothing at all but a kick in the ass.
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 8:43 pm
My generation was just like yours, Davy, blind to reality because we were subjected to the same propaganda you are, only worse because there was no Internet to get alternative facts and views. No excuse for Americans to not be informed for the last 20 years. No excuse other than denial.
MY generation made your lifestyle possible. It is yours, and the ones that followed it, that made/is making it a bad thing. It is yours that allow it to continue. No, support it by inaction and division.
When I was born, there were about 122,000,000 Americans. There are now over 322,000,000. I guess that is my fault also? I sure had busy nights! LOL
Americans are good at blaming others. That will soon end as reality comes home to the US. Soon.
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 8:49 pm
Davy, I am just doing what ~50,000,000 other Americans are doing. Collecting what we were promised. We are adding 10,000 new recipients everyday until it goes broke and ends the American Empire.
I expect that will not be too many years from now. Maybe next year. But until then, keep paying your taxes! LOL
GregT on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 10:21 pm
“Makat, you are part of a generation of failure. Your generation could have changed things and didn’t.”
You need to learn some respect for your elders sonny boy, without them you would not even exist, and neither would all of the things that you take for granted, each and every single day.
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 10:30 pm
GregT, Davy will never admit to anything negative that makes him responsible for. He is so brainwashed/afraid that he is no longer rational. I am glad I am not one of his kids or his wife.
He looks up every post I make and does his putdown, name calling, thing. I don’t read the ones that he posts when I am off PO unless they are in the comments list at the right bottom. Apparently he has not noticed that, but it is difficult to see with those tight blinders on.
Maybe he should attack the Trillion Plus Military/security part of the US budget and do something about that? We on SS are only getting what was promised to us. We earned it.
Apneaman on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 10:40 pm
US Air Force sprays Harvey-stricken Texas with controversial chemicals
“Due to the large amount of standing, polluted water, populations of pest insects that can transmit diseases are increasing significantly,” Captain Jeff Kelly, Air Force spokesman said in a statement. “This poses a health risk to rescue workers and residents of Houston.”
“Naled, a neurotoxin sold under the brand name Dibrom, works by killing an enzyme in insects and leads to overstimulating the nervous system, causing nausea, dizziness and confusion and at high exposure, respiratory paralysis and death.”
https://www.rt.com/usa/403377-air-force-sprays-harvey-chemicals/
What else would you expect from the cancer apes? Got a problem? No problem, we’ll just spray another layer of complexity cancer on it. In this case, it beats the alternative.
Boat on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 11:00 pm
mak,
“Maybe he should attack the Trillion Plus Military/security part of the US budget and do something about that? We on SS are only getting what was promised to us. We earned it”.
You earned it like the military did. If I had my way SS and the military budgets would be cut by 2/3. Medicare and medicaid by 1/2. Of course I am from a younger generation who thinks fiscal sustainability is a must.
makati1 on Fri, 15th Sep 2017 11:53 pm
Boaty , you are so brainwashed that you cannot see reality. The uS miltary is just a security force for the multinationals, not for US security. Let the multinationals hire their own army. I do not pity the ‘for money’ army the US currently has. It is a bunch of ineffective losers who should thank Americans for their overpaid salaries and comforts. Old time military would call them wusses. Pansies that have no idea of real war or sacrifice.
US fiscal sustainability is past history, as you and about 325 million other Americans are about to find out. Growth in America is over. All that comes next is shrinkage until you are 3rd world. Be patient. That fiscal can keeps rebounding off of that big wall of debt.
GregT on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 12:06 am
“Of course I am from a younger generation who thinks fiscal sustainability is a must.”
Of course you do Kevin. That’s why you play the market casino with money that you don’t really have, and in reality, money that you already owe to somebody else.
Brilliant plan.
Apneaman on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 12:47 am
Davy, here\s some ammunition for you.
The Myth of Canada’s “Benevolent” Foreign Policy
by Yves Engler / September 13th, 2017
“Uranium from Great Bear Lake in the Northwest Territories was used in the only two nuclear bombs ever dropped on a human population. In Northern approaches: Canada and the search for peace James Eayrs notes, “the maiming of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a byproduct of Canadian uranium.”
Canada spent millions of dollars (tens of millions in today’s money) to help research the bombs’ development. Immediately after successfully developing the technology, the US submitted its proposal to drop the bomb on Japan to the tri-state World War II Combined Policy Committee meeting, which included powerful Canadian minister C.D. Howe and a British official. Though there is no record of his comments at the July 4, 1945 meeting, apparently Howe supported the US proposal. Reflecting the racism in Canadian governing circles, in his (uncensored) diary King wrote:
It is fortunate that the use of the bomb should have been upon the Japanese rather than upon the white races of Europe.”
https://dissidentvoice.org/2017/09/the-myth-of-canadas-benevolent-foreign-policy/
Murderous nuke bombing Canadian racists bastards.
Death to Canada…..La lalalalalalalalalalalala (ululation)
Boat on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 1:03 am
My market money is paper/digital as my debts. My pre crash, lol, paper outnumbers my debts by several multiples.
Only time will tell what happens but the market is doing fine. Record setting even.
Boat on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 1:18 am
mak,
US bases left around the world in places like Germany, Japan, Italy, S Korea etc secured the peace for over 6 decades. Time for those nations to pay for them or the US to dismantle them. If they need help in the future we’ll send drones, fighter jets, missiles etc from the ranch.
Like ape showed, our allies are great teammates. Even India is swinging our way.
makati1 on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 1:22 am
Boat, the same thing was claimed by the investors on October 28, 1929. Then:
During the 1920s, the U.S. stock market underwent rapid expansion, reaching its peak in August 1929, after a period of wild speculation. By then, production had already declined and unemployment had risen, leaving stocks in great excess of their real value. Among the other causes of the eventual market collapse were low wages, the proliferation of debt, a struggling agricultural sector and an excess of large bank loans that could not be liquidated. (Sound familiar?)
Stock prices began to decline in September and early October 1929, and on October 18 the fall began. Panic set in, and on October 24, Black Thursday, a record 12,894,650 shares were traded. Investment companies and leading bankers attempted to stabilize the market by buying up great blocks of stock, producing a moderate rally on Friday. On Monday, however, the storm broke anew, and the market went into free fall. Black Monday was followed by Black Tuesday (October 29), in which stock prices collapsed completely and 16,410,030 shares were traded on the New York Stock Exchange in a single day. Billions of dollars were lost, wiping out thousands of investors, and stock tickers ran hours behind because the machinery could not handle the tremendous volume of trading.
After October 29, 1929, stock prices had nowhere to go but up, so there was considerable recovery during succeeding weeks. Overall, however, prices continued to drop as the United States slumped into the Great Depression, and by 1932 stocks were worth only about 20 percent of their value in the summer of 1929. The stock market crash of 1929 was not the sole cause of the Great Depression, but it did act to accelerate the global economic collapse of which it was also a symptom. By 1933, nearly half of America’s banks had failed, and unemployment was approaching 15 million people, or 30 percent of the workforce.”
http://www.history.com/topics/1929-stock-market-cr
BTW: The Banks did NOT forgive/forget loans after. They collected and put millions of Americans on the street. Now it may be hundreds of millions. The dollar will not disappear, it just will be about worthless. Banks will just take what you have. Dream on Boat.
Davy on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 1:43 am
“You need to learn some respect for your elders sonny boy, without them you would not even exist, and neither would all of the things that you take for granted, each and every single day.”
Shut the frig up grehg, what would you know about respect you support and cajole a person with hate and darkness in his every comment. You do your own attacks but they are not in self-defense they are in contempt for a people you hate. The reason for this is you are like makat deep down but your wrapping is this respectable family guy and community member but deep down you are as sick as makat.
Davy on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 1:50 am
“Of course you do Kevin. That’s why you play the market casino with money that you don’t really have, and in reality, money that you already owe to somebody else. Brilliant plan.”
At least he has a legitimate plan and not part of a money laundering scheme like you practiced in Hongcouver. You are now a wealthy guy because you pocketed an unreasonably and completely out of proportion large chunk of change by being part of one of the greatest money laundering schemes in the world between China and the Canadian region of BC. You now are probably the wealthiest guy on the board pointing fingers at others like you have some legitimacy when both you and makat are flaming hypocritical anti-westerners who live western lives. sick
GregT on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 2:02 am
The board whack job, is now in support of the board idiot. It just doesn’t get any more dysfunctional. 🙂
Davy on Sat, 16th Sep 2017 2:17 am
“The board whack job, is now in support of the board idiot. It just doesn’t get any more dysfunctional. ”
The board whack job, is now in support of the board idiot. It just doesn’t get any more dysfunctional.