How to talk about climate change at a party

37 Comments on "How to talk about climate change at a party"

Davy on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 1:08 pm 



me too…….

penury on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 1:46 pm 



That appears to be a common reaction.

onlooker on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 2:17 pm 



You might as well talk to a brick wall, you will get a better reaction

Dredd on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 2:29 pm 



“This ain’t no party … this ain’t no disco … this ain’t no foolin’ around …” – Life during wartime, Talking Heads

(Arctic Sea Ice & Antarctic Sea Ice Are Different Types – 2).

Apneaman on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 5:11 pm 



Too funny. I have said to a couple of people who asked me basacilly the same question, “you don’t want to know what I think”. Sour faces and mumbling something about it’s not that bad and “they’ll” think of something. Tell yourself.

How a Warming Planet Drives Human Migration

Climate displacement is becoming one of the world’smost powerful — and destabilizing — geopolitical forces.

“Climate change is not equally felt across the globe, and neither are its longer term consequences. This map overlays human turmoil — represented here by United Nations data on nearly 64 million “persons of concern,” whose numbers have tripled since 2005 — with climate turmoil, represented by data from NASA’s Common Sense Climate Index. The correlation is striking. Climate change is a threat multiplier: It contributes to economic and political instability and also worsens the effects. It propels sudden-onset disasters like floods and storms and slow-onset disasters like drought and desertification; those disasters contribute to failed crops, famine and overcrowded urban centers; those crises inflame political unrest and worsen the impacts of war, which leads to even more displacement.”

http://nyti.ms/2oxPa5m

So far the only effects I have felt from AGW is last summer or the one before (can’t remember) there were minor water restrictions (lawn watering and car & house washing) and smoke from wildfires for a couple of weeks drifting into greater Vancouver and this winter was the weirdest, snowiest and coldest one I can remember here. Lots of busted up roads now from the cold. So, I’m still pretty much a safeNwarm in my technological bubble, which is really a fragile illusion.

Apneaman on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 5:19 pm 



Duration of Indian Hot Season Nearly Doubles as Crushing Drought and Heat Expand Across the Subcontinent

“For India, the hot-season-like temperatures began in late February — two months earlier than usual. After a brief respite, they fired again in March, bringing April-like temperatures a month too soon. The hot season for this region typically begins in mid-April and extends through mid-June. In 2017, hot-season conditions sparked in late February. Today, life-threatening temperatures of between 100 and 115 F blanket much of this vast, densely populated land.”

https://robertscribbler.com/2017/04/21/duration-of-indian-hot-season-nearly-doubles-as-crushing-drought-and-heat-expands-across-the-subcontinent/

As a nation, India did nothing to curb their breeding the last 50 years, so, like us they asked for it. They have also done everything they possibly could to industrialise – damn the torpedoes. They are as much of a cancer as “the west” or China.

diemos on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 6:09 pm 



“Sour faces and mumbling something about it’s not that bad and “they’ll” think of something.”

As a PhD scientist my standard response to that is; “As a card carrying member of ‘they’ … let me tell you … we got nothing.”

jedrider on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 6:24 pm 



Well, if one tells the truth, you CAN get a reaction ‘We’re all going to die!’ which is true to some extent, but not immediately.

makati1 on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 8:20 pm 



On other topics: Does this describe the U$ today? (And maybe a few others on here?)

“Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-22/krieger-american-empire-under-trump-has-become-increasingly-desperate-dangerous-inse

The pointing finger…

BillC on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 9:33 pm 



I’ve told climate we kill us for 50 years. Ive been peak oil destroy us in 2020.

makati1 on Sat, 22nd Apr 2017 11:20 pm 



BillC, climate change is killing you slowly. As for ‘peak oil’, that too is destroying the western economy slowly. Be patient.

DerHundistlos on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 12:46 am 



“I read that we’ll soon be able to colonize other planets, is that true?”

Me: Yes, according to the Trump administration. Trump proudly signed a bill to authorize funding for a manned flight to Mars. The idea being that once we trash our beautiful home, the elites will relocate to the freezing, oxygen-less, barren planet of Mars. This makes perfect sense, right?

Seriously, I have already warned you how and when it’s going to end, but how many of you listened?

DerHundistlos on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 1:06 am 



BTW, Donald Trump, Jr. flew out to Montana to spend the weekend shooting Prairie Dogs. He’s enrolled in a contest to see who can kill the most over a 48 hour period. Jr. wore a tee shirt that reads, “The Donald in Training”, and if he loses he will offer autographed “The Donald in Training” tee shirts to the winning team.

Davy on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 5:15 am 



“Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others. For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.”

Perfectly describes you Makati. In fact you could not have more effectively described yourself. Talk about exposing your real self, LOL.

Davy on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 5:16 am 



“Donald Trump, Jr. flew out to Montana to spend the weekend shooting Prairie Dogs.”
Disgusting!

Cloggie on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 5:53 am 



The hydrogen economy is back!

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/04/23/cost-hydrogen-from-renewable-energy/

Perhaps not in the original all-encompassing grand vision as proposed by Jeremy Rifkin in 2003, but nevertheless could play a substantial role in decarbonization by producing H2 for NH3 (Ammonia) production for fertilizer/agriculture.

Davy on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 5:58 am 



Clog, farmers are having a hard time affording fertilizer now how are they going to afford expensive renewable produced fertilizer? Cheap natural gas has kept the food productivity stable.

AFDF on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 6:24 am 



Jay Hanson said there’s no political or scientific solution and here I keep seeing them.

Cloggie on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 6:49 am 



Clog, farmers are having a hard time affording fertilizer now how are they going to afford expensive renewable produced fertilizer? Cheap natural gas has kept the food productivity stable.

So we are going to forget about decarbonizing the economy effort because US farmer income, probably one of the highest farmer income in the world, should remain as it is?

Disappointing attitude, Davy.

Cloggie on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 6:52 am 



https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-sector-income-finances/farm-business-income/

Farm businesses (farms with annual gross cash farm income of over $350,000 or smaller operations where farming is reported as the operator’s primary occupation) account for less than half of U.S. farms, but contribute over 90 percent of the farm sector’s value of production and hold the majority of its assets and debt. Average net cash farm income (NCFI) is forecast at $109,800 for farm businesses* in 2017, up 2 percent from 2016

Boohoo, only $109,800 and only up 2% compared to last year.

So sad.

The alternative approach would be of course to calculate the increased fertilizer price (if any at all!) into the price of the farmer’s end product.

rockman on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 7:50 am 



Mak – “Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities…by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.” And what do you call it when humans defend themselves against their own CONSCIOUS DECISIONS by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.

IOW a more interesting conversation starter (or non-starter) would be to ask how they feel about being part of the collective (i.e. consumers) that is DIRECTLY responsible for the vast majority of GHG production. And for that part of the crowd that doesn’t avoid eye contact you can ask them how much of the lifestyle they are willing to radically alter.

A hint to the reactions you might expect: watch responses to this post which expose those guilt ridden efforts to lay the blame on the “system” and not them.

Davy on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 8:31 am 



“Disappointing attitude, Davy.” Clog, you like putting words in others mouth. Where did I say “forget about decarbonizing the economy”? I didn’t, you said I said it and that is clearly a lazy way to respond. What I said is stop your nonsense of overhyping things in a makati-ism of extremism and agenda.

Farm income matters because in the status quo income matters. What do you know about farm income in the US anyway besides some referenced link you will dig up with little understanding of the content? I farmed 1000 acres of corn and soy in 2000-2004. I am an expert on farm incomes. I had over a $Mil invested back then. Clog sometimes you can be brilliant and other times you greatly overstep your abilities.

Davy on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 8:41 am 



“Average net cash farm income (NCFI) is forecast at $109,800 for farm businesses* in 2017, up 2 percent from 2016”

Well, first of all the above is “FORCAST” and it is only April, “Boohoo”, plus, do you know what part of the income statement net cash farm income appears? What about after taxes? What about after interest costs. What about after equipment is paid for? What about all those things that don’t appear on the income statement or balance sheet. What about the many long hours worked by the farmer with little compensation? What about the fact farmers get government subsidies? You just referenced a piss poor example of the reality of farming today which is a marginal business unless the farmer is very big and vertically integrated with other activities. If he has a wife and family most of them are working in town. You don’t know “BOOHOO about farming clog so clog up.

Dredd on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 9:41 am 



rockman the evangelist sayeth: “consumers … DIRECTLY responsible for the vast majority of GHG production”

So, how are your daddy, mommy, and other relatives you love, guilty of your Oil-Qaeda accusation since they were not born yet when the western world was made addicts to oil (The Authoritarianism of Climate Change) ?

Dredd on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 9:43 am 



rockman,

And what punishment do you have in mind for them?

Apneaman on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 11:39 am 



rockman has yet to address my long running question that if he and his fellow cancer schemers were so confident in the consumer buying their product, then why have they collectively spent over a billion dollars a year to muddy the scientific waters. AKA – lying, cheating cocksucking mother fuckers. Wouldn’t an annual multi billion dollar denial industrial be a huge waste of money if y’all knew that, no matter what, the consumer would always consume regardless of consequences? Big contradiction.

Review: ‘Merchants of Doubt,’ Separating Science From Spin

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/06/movies/review-merchants-of-doubt-separating-science-from-spin.html?_r=0

John L. Ward: Global cooling myth used to spread doubt

http://www.gainesville.com/opinion/20170419/john-l-ward-global-cooling-myth-used-to-spread-doubt

The denial industry

For years, a network of fake citizens’ groups and bogus scientific bodies has been claiming that science of global warming is inconclusive. They set back action on climate change by a decade. But who funded them? Exxon’s involvement is well known, but not the strange role of Big Tobacco. In the first of three extracts from his new book, George Monbiot tells a bizarre and shocking new story

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2

You are a part of it rockman. You are in the industry and have spent plenty of time on this site muddying the waters. And then you brag about all the bank you make.

You know me – I don’t think the humans could ever stop their reward seeking, but I do know y’all slimy basterds lied and cheated and definitely did everything you could to make AGW come as fast as fast can. A part of the conniving has also been blocking alt energy at every turn, more so with the coal scum, but not exclusivity. I don’t believe the entire car fleet would ever bee electrified, but if not for y’alls malfeasance, I do think that the humans could have backed off a bit and instituted more alternative, which would only have resulted in buying a few more decades, but that was I needed to live out my life without the shit hitting. After it hits, people like you don’t want to run into people like me, no no no. The other thing to ponder is what are the chances, given 3-5 decades that the humans could come up with one or more tech band-aids to buy another bit of time?

Those consumers are very convenient for you hey rockman? You sound like every drug dealer claiming he is just giving them what they want so he/you are completly innocent. I noticed that you have not once taken any of the blame/responsibility – you have shifted ALL of it on the consumers. None of it is on you NONE.

A coward and a liar.

Apneaman on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 11:50 am 



India’s killer heatwaves claim 4620 deaths in last four years
In 2016, nearly 1,600 people died due to erratic weather conditions, of which 557 casualties were to severe heatwave, as per the Ministry of Earth Sciences

“The figures, however, are larger across the country as causes other than the direct reasons like heat stroke and dehydration are seldom accounted for, said Dileep Mavlankar, Director of Gandhinagar-based Indian Institute of Public Health that has been working with the Ahemdabad Municipal Corporation on a heatwave action plan.
“For instance, dehydration also leads to respiratory and renal failure, especially for those who are prone to heart and kidney ailments. Infants and the elderly top the list in casualties,” he said.”

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/indias-killer-heatwaves-claim-4620-deaths-in-last-four-years-4624944/

Heatwave Condition Intensifies, Jharsuguda Sizzles at 45 degree Celsius

https://www.odisha360.com/2017/04/23/heatwave-condition-intensifies-jharsuguda-sizzles-45-degree-celsius/

Heat wave in Rajasthan, Churu hottest at 44 deg C

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/heat-wave-in-rajasthan-churu-hottest-at-44-deg-c/1/935731.html

Apneaman on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 12:30 pm 



Blame the consumer.

Just 90 companies are to blame for most climate change, this ‘carbon accountant’ says

“The results showed that nearly two-thirds of the major industrial greenhouse gas emissions (from fossil fuel use, methane leaks, and cement manufacture) originated in just 90 companies around the world, which either emitted the carbon themselves or supplied carbon ultimately released by consumers and industry.”

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/08/just-90-companies-are-blame-most-climate-change-carbon-accountant-says

I don’t blame those scummy corporations solely. Everyone plays a part, but the level of responsibility and impact varies. The main thing to realise is that the problems are systemic. So who is in charge of the system? Who has the power? Who calls the shots? Who corrupts the law makers? We all know who. Big ________.

When the hugely profitable industry corrupts the system and politicians/law makers it’s hard to argue that the consumer has all that much choice. Limited choices. We all have limited choices when living in complex societies and if changes are to ever occur it’s top down.

Fossil Fuel Funding to Congress: Industry influence in the U.S.

http://priceofoil.org/fossil-fuel-industry-influence-in-the-u-s/

88% of Congress On Gas Industry Payroll As Campaign Donations Hit Record Level

http://www.occupy.com/article/88-congress-gas-industry-payroll-campaign-donations-hit-record-level#sthash.0hHhDPoV.dpbs

When wealth and power concentrate there is always mass corruption. When this happens the consumer/citizen/peasant/pleb has little or no choice. It does not matter what industry, what century or what kingdom or country. Same as it ever was except this will be the final collapse.

Boat on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 12:48 pm 



Ape,

Until there is an alternative to oil there is no one group to blame. It’s not like the US produces or consumes the majority of FF consumption. I am not pro oil, coal or nat gas. I certainly support efficiency, renewables and would support higher taxes to move to an electric system more quickly. But tech has to evolve and along with it, demand. Then the decades it will take to get to scale.nThen and only then will FF take its rightful place in consumption. The smaller the better.

Boat on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 12:51 pm 



Ape,

Climate change will kill 80 million per year and then population will quit growing. What year will that happen.

Sissyfuss on Sun, 23rd Apr 2017 2:11 pm 



Oil is like trans fats. We used to think they were good for us til they weren’t.

Revi on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 8:14 am 



I have found that it’s amazing how little even smart people know about climate change. I talked to some people who were science teachers about it yesterday, and they didn’t know that the past 4 years have been the hottest on record, nor did they know that we passed 405 ppm or that we even had a reading of 410. They seemed not to know what that meant, and to tell the truth didn’t seem interested. We switched to a more banal subject and it went much better.

Apneaman on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 10:50 am 



Boat where again is the 80 million a year stat from?

The combined consequences of AGW, ocean acidification and the 6th mass extinction will kill everyone boat. Throw in growing population and resource depletion and it brings it all the faster. My estimate is the humans will be gone before the turn of the century. Sooner if they have a nuke war.

Take a good look at the forces the humans are up against….then try and imagine what it will look like when the inertia catches up.

1 week’s worth of humans and their infrastructure getting an ass whooping condensed down to 21 mins.

Climate & Extreme Weather News #20 (April 15th-April 20th 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvZd85_phvU

rockman on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 2:58 pm 



Apneaman/Dredd – So you two and all the other consumers are “addicted” to burning fossil fuels. So none of you are physically capable of reducing your “fix”. I suspect you two don’t realize how childish your “addiction” spin sounds to everyone here who appreciate the absurdity that just 5% of the global population (US citizens) consuming a very disproportionately large share of the world’s fossil fuels because they are “forced” to do so by the “pushers”. LOL.

But if you want to play the pusher/addict game that’s OK by the Rockman but let’s be honest about it. The industry is “addicted” to the monies paid by the consumers to supply them. And it’s easy to prove: when the monies decrease (lower oil/NG prices) the industry reduces activity. OTOH the consumers take advantage of those lower prices and burn even more fossil fuels. That’s not the actions of an addict…it’s the response of a glutton.

The same twisted logic that all you can eat buffets cause obesity. It’s the glutinous consumers that create the motivation for those restaurants. But you two are free to explain to everyone here how you have no control over how much fossil fuel you consume.

Apneaman on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 4:10 pm 



rockman, none of that eliminates the obscene level of lying and corruption the cancer industry (you) have done since it’s inception and the cover up and misdirection of science most recently. You can scream and shout about me & Dredd’s and the consumers carbon foot print until the cows come home but it don’t change what y’all done. You’re just playing a big game of misdirection and pass the buck. Again you do not talk about your end in any terms other than benevolent energy providers. You full of shit boy.

Apneaman on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 4:26 pm 



Co-Conspirators To Crime Of The Century: The Oil Industry Knew

“Members of an American Petroleum Institute task force on CO2 included scientists from nearly every major oil company, including Exxon, Texaco and Shell.

The American Petroleum Institute together with the nation’s largest oil companies ran a task force to monitor and share climate research between 1979 and 1983, indicating that the oil industry, not just Exxon alone, was aware of its possible impact on the world’s climate far earlier than previously known.

The group’s members included senior scientists and engineers from nearly every major U.S. and multinational oil and gas company, including Exxon, Mobil, Amoco, Phillips, Texaco, Shell, Sunoco, Sohio as well as Standard Oil of California and Gulf Oil, the predecessors to Chevron, according to internal documents obtained by InsideClimate News and interviews with the task force’s former director.

An Inside Climate News investigative series has shown that Exxon launched its own cutting-edge CO2 sampling program in 1978 in order to understand a phenomenon it suspected could harm its business. About a decade later, Exxon spearheaded campaigns to cast doubt on climate science and stall regulation of greenhouse gases. The previously unpublished papers about the climate task force indicate that API, the industry’s most powerful lobbying group, followed a similar arc to Exxon’s in confronting the threat of climate change.”

https://popularresistance.org/co-conspirators-to-crime-of-the-century-the-oil-industry-knew/

The oil industrial complex is as corrupt or worse than drug cartels or any organised crime. The difference is almost all of their muscle is institutional – politicians, bureaucrats, police, military and a massive PR budget. Stands to reason that this type of thing would happen in the profitable industry in history. Why does the US have such a massive military? To control the flow of oil so they can afford a massive military. Anyone think those 2 world wars had anything to do with oil? Oil is the biggest prize in history thus by default it has attracted the greediest, scummiest, power mad humans who will stop at nothing. Nobody ever gives up power and when they are challenged they pull out all the stops regardless of consequences. Benevolent energy providers my ass.

________________________________________ on Mon, 24th Apr 2017 5:24 pm 



It’s chilly in here. But not for long. Every time anyone farts they are improving my ecosystem.