Heinberg: A New Covenant with Nature

44 Comments on "Heinberg: A New Covenant with Nature"

onlooker on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 3:26 pm 



A new convenant with Nature would require that we forsake our modern Industrial Civilization and it would require that we substantially reduce our total population. In my years studying these problems, I have not detected any tangible sign that humans are ready and willing to do this. What’s more it appears that we no longer have the luxury of choosing to do so. Rather, we will be forced to by the untenability of either retaining our modes of living and of maintaining our huge population numbers. The question remains of whether we can mitigate the worse possible outcomes of these Nature induced changes and in the aftermath of going through this bottleneck emerge with some semblance of an organized modern society and humans capable and willing to undertake the arduous job of restarting a more benign form of civilization or cohesive societies.

Antius on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 3:41 pm 



Heinberg is a sociologist. His powerdown book was an amusing read, but deeply misguided.

Cloggie on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 4:54 pm 



Heinberg is an ecologist fundamentalist. I think he is better at “spirituality” and Trump bashing than at “peak-oil”. That’s a subject for people with a lifelong career in energy matters. Accountant Gail Tverberg, same story.

Heinberg should stick with his violin and Velikovsky books.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Heinberg

onlooker on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:10 pm 



http://richardheinberg.com/about
Well, I think his credentials are noteworthy and he certainly has an audience wishing to read and hear him. And yes he is more well rounded than just an energy person. Especially suited to comment because of his environmental background as nothing in discussions of our collective future especially energy can omit its bearing on and interplay with the environment

Davy on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:13 pm 



We are very likely near the end of growth. We are likely within abrupt climate change. We are seeing planetary ecosystems in decline and localized failure. Populations are past or near overshoot parameters. Our civilization is socially unstable at the macro and local level. We are more digitally connected than ever before and we have more consumables than ever before. This is our civilization.

It is now brittle to change. There is likely no further advancement potential. Maybe we can rewire our energy systems to extend modernism but it is debateable how long. This points to a paradigm turning. It is just these types of places in time space that call on spiritual metamorphosis. It is likely only a crisis that can break the systematic inertia and it is in and through this existential crisis we can be transformed. This transformation can be more wisdom with less things. If there is any affluence associated with this transformation it will be of the metaphysical type.

We can advance but not the way we have been habituated to for going on two centuries. Our gods were technological but now our new covenant will have to be with nature and between ourselves. The alternative will be reinventing the wheel and all the mistakes that came about from that. If there is anything good that can come out of modernism it is the wisdom of learning from the error that is modernism. All this is if we get a second chance. This may be the end my friends.

Go Speed Racer on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:30 pm 



New covenant with nature:

Backyard sofa fires only on Thirsdays.

Backyard fire firesz, only on Tuesdays.

LA-Z-BOY recliner and pallet fires,
only every other week.

Boat on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:30 pm 



Davy,

I saw a 4800 sq ft home with energy bills less than $100 per month. They claim it is 97 percent efficient. So yes there is advancement potential. They plan to install solar so the house will be a net energy provider by a wide margin.

Davy on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:44 pm 



Boat, my point blew right over you flat footed personality. No wonder we are likely doomed to an inescapable fate. A 4800 sq/ft home is obnoxious and an example of why we are where we are at. What I am talking about is a new human and 4800 sq/ft homes will not be part of that human’s life.

onlooker on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 5:49 pm 



Davy, we know what Boat is about, he thinks we can have our cake and eat it too. Modern Industrial Civilization running on Renewable and technology and efficiency making it run with little energy. Yes, it would work if only our desire to have more were not such a bitch too overcome. A new human Boat, means forsaking the greedy selfish warlike part of ourselves. Can Renewable solve that conundrum Boat?

GregT on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 7:30 pm 



Boat,

How much did that 4800 sq ft home cost to build? How much energy was required to make that money? How long will the house last in it’s current configuration?

All of those factors and more, must be taken into consideration when one attempts to figure out a monthly energy cost over the life of that home.

GregT on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 7:41 pm 



And Boat,

The sad fact of the matter is, a cave is likely more energy efficient than that home is.

Anonymouse on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 7:52 pm 



Boatytards single-wide mobile home is likely very energy efficient Greg. If he gets cold, he can just chuck his furniture in the middle of his mobile homes living room and set it on fire. If it gets too hot, then boatytard can get someone to show him how to use the trailer parks water hose to cool down.

100% efficiency.

GregT on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 8:03 pm 



Boat has already admitted that he doesn’t own a home Anonymouse. The place that he cohabitates with his roommates is owned by his local bank, and Boat is paying through the nose, plus interest, in a rent to own scheme more commonly called a mortgage.

If Boat is lucky, and property prices continue to rise, he won’t lose the principal that he has paid back to the bank. If he isn’t so lucky, and the housing market makes a correction, not only is he likely to lose his principal, he’ll more than likely end up living on the streets.

That’s the thing about gambling, especially when you gamble with money that you owe to somebody else. You pays your money, and you takes your chances.

Makati1 on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 8:44 pm 



A 4800sf home cannot be built in America for less than $100/s.f. I was in the housing business for most of my 50 year career. And that would be with the cheapest materials and skimming just over the minimum building code. Or ~ $480,000.00 plus land. I built a 2,800s.f. home for myself 20 years ago and it still cost about $80/s.f. Took 5 years of my ‘spare’ time.

Even if you built it yourself, it will cost at least $60/sf for materials, fees, tools, etc. Not to mention that it takes and average of one man/hour per square foot to build, minimum. Not to mention that banks will not loan money to build (construction loan) unless you can prove ability and experience. I had both.

BTW: That $60 was 1995 prices. You can add about 30-40% for today’s prices.

Boat on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 9:34 pm 



mak,

I am sure the cost of that home was over 200 per sq ft. The house was about the latest in tech. They are remodeling an 1880 mansion. Like a tiny home compared to mansions around the world.

Investor Ira Rennert’s neighbors in The Hamptons weren’t too happy when he decided to build a $245 million, 110,000-square-foot manse, but he got his bowling alley and personal power plant all the same.

GregT on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 10:18 pm 



So a million dollars, plus land, services, excavation etc?

At an average U.S. wage of 44K per year, there is the embedded energy of an entire human lifetime worth of work, plus all of the fossil fuels energy required for that human being to do so. All in, the real monthly energy cost for that home would be in the thousands of dollars Boat.

Makati1 on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 10:30 pm 



Not to mention the maintenance which runs at least 1% of the house’ value…PER YEAR. Not to mention insurance, etc. And, when the SHTF, it will stand empty because it will not be livable without electric.

Go Speed Racer on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 11:07 pm 



I built a 1200 sq ft workshop out back.
Damn I thought it would be easy.
The 2×4’s are just popsicle sticks right?

But it’s a huge amount of work. Damn.

And I got to thinking about all the trucks an
Wood and concrete and nails and real big trucks
to pour the concrete and framers come and
go in their pickup trucks and about 4000 errands
and electric power and heaters and the asphalt
roof and the pAint.

And I am thinking Holy Krap how much fossil
fuel dies it take to build this thing?

If ya include the logger trucks crawling through the
hills to get the logs for the sawmill?

Well… about a railroad tanker car of oil,
for sure easy, and that’s for only a
little ole 1200 sq ft shop.

So. Colossal use of fossil fuel. Take away
the railroad tanker car of fuel,
and you got nuthin. Can’t pound a
single nail.

GregT on Wed, 16th Aug 2017 11:18 pm 



People built some rather impressive structures without any inputs from fossil fuels GSR. It just takes one hell of a lot longer, and a lot more food.

GregT on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 12:07 am 



Oh yeah,

And slavery definitely helps.

Boat on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 12:46 am 



greggiet,

I guess your not to impressed with Putin’s mansion that ran 1 billion. Then he sold it for $300,000 later. Russian tax dollars at work.

kervennic on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 4:59 am 



I guess the right spirituallity for a successful transition is more of a green djihadist attitude. Thousands of Breivik spreding new strains of viruses near atomic facilities and bombing dams here and there.

Cloggie on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 5:58 am 



Thousands of Breivik spreding new strains of viruses near atomic facilities and bombing dams here and there.

Kervennic, are we being “spiritual” again, the French way?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/22/article-0-0707B294000005DC-592_306x423.jpg

Davy on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 7:03 am 



The spiritual transition I am prompting is more individual and personal much like the Taoist of the warring states period. It is about yielding and bending not confrontation and protest. The prerequisite is realizing the Anthropocene is here to stay. There is no going back to the land like a nuevo Native American type. Ideally a new continent or planet would be there to move to but those days are gone. The land has been altered and all habitable spaces filled. Semi-nomadic hunter gathering is a very narrow and dispersed activity very few can participate in. Today it is more akin to dumpster diving and scavenging.

What I am talking about is living in the status quo to leave it. You leave it through relative sacrifice of living with less but perusing more spirituality. Don’t confuse spirituality for religion this is not what I am speaking of. If you don’t get that then you have more learning to do. If you are now middle class stay middle class but do it on the lite. Be an example for your family and friends of less, of resilience, and of respect for mother earth. There are some that can decouple from modern life and by all means do it. OH, how I wish I could but my family and friends come before me in life so I will stay with them in their life.

The key to this physical transformation and mental transcendence is acceptance of the status quo. You can’t fight it. Life self-organized into this. We humans want to take credit for the Anthropocene because we think we are exceptional. We complain about the Anthropocene because we want to take credit for it and we do this with blame and complain. Nothing worse than a bellowing whiner on how horrible we are. Yea, whine bag, we suck so what. Life gave us the Anthropocene because life uses extinction to evolve life. We moderns are nothing more than a tool for extinction for nature not of nature.

Once you accept we are trapped and there is nowhere to go then you make other arrangements. Getting to this acceptance you must reject the status quo as insane. You see the paradox of modern life that insane is sane and sane is insane. You see the catch 22 of it all and you understand there is no security. We have just manufactured a fake “riskless” faux comfortable life like so many other consumables. Sure in some ways we have more security and comforts being moderns but the tradeoffs are there too. We destroyed a planet and we are a button away from global NUK war suicide. Our comforts are killing us in obesity and mental neurosis.

Once you give up so to speak then you go forth. You localize hopefully in a local with some kind of future but any local will do. For many there is nowhere to go so make the best of where you are at. We all live to die another day. You downsize with dignity and go under the radar screen. This means avoid trouble. There is plenty to go around so don’t look for it. If trouble comes make your last stand if you must and do it heroically in defense of yourself, family, and your place. There is no running from dying. Modern life is about death so accept it. Approach life humbly and in sobriety not necessarily for some religious reason but because of a survival impulse. You give yourself over to mother earth and work with her and through relative sacrifice do less harm.

Relative sacrifice is still living modern just on the lite. It is so much more than fake green it is about embracing poverty not affluence as the right direction for a species in overshoot. “Less” and “no” are the inspirational words of true wisdom not “Moar”. You can live a better life with a new attitude. Destructive lifestyles melt away and before you know it you are a new person in a healthier way of life. Don’t think for moment you can escape being a modern human except for the lucky few. Once you except your personal catch 22 you can than choose the “least” bad path forward. That is as good as it gets.

You are now a monk in a metaphysical monastery promoting life not destroying it. Save things from the status quo that will assist those who may pass through the worm hole of existential change that is ahead. Create a library, learn skills, and make art to express a new life that is a hybrid of the old and new. Once you do this your demons become angles and there is no reason to be a green jihadist. Violence takes so much energy and offers so little reward. The depths of the ego are haunting and alone. Life is easy because life is there to assist you at it.

paultard on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 8:20 am 



any covenant with nature should include plans to destroy eurotard renewable infrastructures and drain siberia of oil.

any decent war planner wouldn’t allow so much concerntranted resources in enemies’ hands

Apneaman on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 10:55 am 



clog, how do figure an anonymous and uncredentialed piece of shit like you gets to weigh in on Heinburg & Tverberg who are not hiding behind an anonymous handle? If you choose to remain anonymous then by default you have zero credibility. Of course we have all heard the tall tales of your superstar education and the 37.5 high paying careers you have had. You’re so full of shit and tall tales that only an infantile retard would believe your horse shit. Lucky for you there is no shortage of those folks on the planet or around here. For fuck sakes clog you have presented hundreds of ALEX FUCKING JONES!! videos as evidence. There is not one scholarly institute on the planet that would take you seriously. If you were to apply for a job and they knew your world revolved around ALEX FUCKING JONES!! and his contradictory conspiracies you would never get hired. Even Jones would throw your resume in the garbage and call you a retard. What? You really think he believes in that shit he spews out? Get real. Jones is simply taking the American professional wrestling format and applying it to talk radio. Same types of morons are fanboys of both.

bobinget on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 3:54 pm 



09 AUGUST 2017
Underwater permafrost on the Arctic shelf melting faster than expected

Russian and Swedish researchers have published a research survey showing that the underwater permafrost layer on the Eastern Siberian continental shelf is melting faster than expected, the press service of the Tomsk Polytechnic University told.
“In 1982-1983, the Permafrost Research Institute of the Siberian Branch of the Russian Academy of Sciences drilled four wells, and based on this data we found that the rate of vertical underwater permafrost degradation in the area has gone up to 18 centimeters per year (14 centimeters on average) in the past 30 years, which is ten times faster than expected,” the press service said.
It was believed that the permafrost layer on the sea shelf in the eastern Arctic was mostly solid, which would not allow the possibility of methane emissions from under the ice. It was assumed that the melting of the permafrost would not exceed several meters before the end of the 21st century, and that it would take from hundreds to thousands of years for it to melt through.
“Based on the new results obtained by comprehensive biogeochemical, geophysical and geological research made in 2011-2016, we can conclude that in some areas of the Eastern Siberian shelf the permafrost layer has thinned and reached the stability zone of hydrates, the destruction of which might lead to massive emissions of methane bubbles,” Natalya Shakhova, professor at the university’s Geology and Exploration Department, was quoted as saying.
According to the survey, the volume of methane emissions from the bottom sediment in eastern Arctic seas can vary from milligrams to dozens to hundreds of grams per a square meter per day, depending on the condition of the permafrost layer. This leads to a two to four times increase in atmospheric methane in the above-water layer.
Researchers also discovered another reason for the increase in methane emissions into the water and the air: in shallow waters, icebergs and large ice floes plow through the sea bottom making trenches 4-6 meters deep. They reach the gas layers and release methane.

bobinget on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 4:09 pm 



Apneman
Keep up the Good Fight.
Don’T believe Alex Fuckin Jones would discard
Cloggies stuff, he would love it. Alex Fucking Jones makes six trips a week visiting lonely, angry old MEN in VA hospitals gathering material for his shows.

Those old guys will tell you they listen to the AFJ
show for ‘entertainment’. In reality they are waiting to see what Jones will do with recent nightmares.

Cloggie on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 4:27 pm 



clog, how do figure an anonymous and uncredentialed piece of shit like you gets to weigh in on Heinburg & Tverberg who are not hiding behind an anonymous handle? If you choose to remain anonymous then by default you have zero credibility.

TalmudTurd, you are just as anonymous as I am (but not for the NSA). You would have a point if I would threaten Heinberg or Tverberg, but I don’t. I just don’t accept their conclusions. For the rest you lying POS, I didn’t post “hundreds” of AJ vids, although I did refer to him a few times in the run-up to the historic elections of 2016. For me Heinberg en Tverberg are just another examples of depressed, nihilistic people without hope, who project their despair onto the future of the world of energy, since that is still in the realm of political correctness.

Furthermore I take AJ absolutely NOT serious in almost all what he says, OTHER than as a symptom of European-American resistance against their immanent demise and as a media force to eventually get the inevitable armed resistance started, an armed struggle that will initiate the end of America as a major geopolitical power.

@bob – Alex Jones would not support me in anything, not in historic revisionism, not in analysis of the deep state, not in who did 9/11, not in my climate and energy views, not in racial matters.

Apneaman on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 5:25 pm 



clog, I don’t think you know the definition of nihilism.

ni·hil·ism
ˈnīəˌlizəm,ˈnēəˌlizəm/
noun
noun: nihilism

the rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
synonyms: skepticism, negativity, cynicism, pessimism; More
disbelief, unbelief, agnosticism, atheism
“she could not accept Bacon’s nihilism, his insistence that man is a futile being”
Philosophy
extreme skepticism maintaining that nothing in the world has a real existence.
historical
the doctrine of an extreme Russian revolutionary party c. 1900, which found nothing to approve of in the established social order.

Origin
early 19th century: from Latin nihil ‘nothing’ + -ism.
Translate nihilism to
Use over time for: nihilism

Neither Heinberg or Tverberg exhibit any of the traits you describe them as having. In fact, Tverberg has on more than one occasion suggested prayer for warding off climate change consequences and Heinberg has been suggesting solutions for a couple decades and lives them. Both are recitalists and the reason you attack them is because their conclusions contradict your alt energy civilization untouched by run away climate change and overshoot fantasy.

I have read literally hundreds of comments by people who disagree with Heinberg and Tverberg, but not one of them has described them as “depressed, nihilistic people without hope, who project their despair onto the future of the world of energy, since that is still in the realm of political correctness.” You have made it all up again old dementia man.

fan·ta·sist
ˈfan(t)əsəst/
noun
noun: fantasist; plural noun: fantasists

a person who imagines or dreams about something desired.
“a serial liar and fantasist who had boasted of many affairs”

a serial liar and fantasist indeed.

Apneaman on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 5:54 pm 



clog, you would make a fine 21st century liberal all angry at “…depressed nihilistic people without hope”.

What are we talking about here? Other peoples emotions. You are mad and hate them because you believe they are not express the correct emotions. What is more liberal PC than that?

I’ll tell you, I never had a problem when they wanted to let gays get married or be nice to immigrants and the rest of that fluffy shit. Nope, it’s when they started demanding I cheer for it that was too much. It’s not enough for liberals to take their victories and continue to work, no no no, they want all of us to cheer for it, publicly and even saying it runs counter to your religious beliefs makes you a Nazi. Now that hope thing (hope is an emotion) is a favorite of liberal social justice environmental warriors. Some of whom actually understand a little bit of the science behind AGW). You have no idea how many liberal environmental sites I have been booted from for not expressing the correct amount of HOPE. You sound just like them. I have yet to have anyone demonstrate to me how the emotion of hope has solved even one problem throughout all of human history. Thinking rationally and acting on it solves problems, not hoping. The incessant hope in this society makes me want to vomit. It’s been an infection that has been going on for at least a couple of decades and parasitic cunts like Oprah have built multi billion dollar empires exploiting terrified little humans junkie like need for their daily hope fix. In the face of humanity’s overwhelming predicaments, hope is all the humans have left. Let’s see them hope their way out of overshoot. Lets see how good that hope works when the global average temperature is 3 degrees higher than today and all the plant proteins in the crops melt to goo (denature). Hope is not a solution to anything. Fuck hope.

Clog, congratulations, you’re the Oprah (parasite) of alt energy.

Clog Winfrey.

Cloggie on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 6:12 pm 



What are we talking about here? Other peoples emotions. You are mad and hate them because you believe they are not express the correct emotions.

No, we are not talking about emotions, but about point of views. And where do you get the idea that I “hate” Heinberg? I don’t, never did. Any idea how much energy it costs to hate? Sure you do.lol But I distanced myself from Heinberg over the past 4-5 years, because his conclusions were wrong. But if I need to begin to hate everybody I disagree with, I would explode. Thanks, but no thanks.

Now that hope thing (hope is an emotion) is a favorite of liberal social justice environmental warriors.

I do not need hope. Hope is for suckers, just like faith in heaven or Santaclaus. Instead I see (in my view) well-founded possibilities to create a future with new possibilities and I do not see the necessity why it should all come down, like you and your fellow “oh we are all going to die” whiners and hysterics do around the clock.

For me it is a big interesting puzzle and a nice engineering challenge, it’s the techie approach. Study, think, design and implement, just like my clients expect me to write their computer programs.

Makati1 on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 6:26 pm 



Cloggie, you sound just like any religious preacher trying to convert the “ignorant” to your belief. And that is all it is, a belief not backed up by any real facts. You refuse to look outside the box you have built and put your sermons into context with the real world. The real world is not going to happen the way you dream of. Not even close. Your ‘future’ is just hopium in huge doses. But, your fixation/addiction is better than using drugs or alcohol. Cheaper anyway. Just don’t expect many converts.

Anonymouse on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 6:52 pm 



Ap, clog doesn’t pimp Alex, the-fat-retard Jones, because he believes his garbage, but because he hopes you and everyone else will start to believe it as well. That is the general idea anyhow. Alex the-retard works for the same group as cloggen-fraud, he’s a zionist shill, controlled ‘dissent’ as it were.

Of course, cloggen-fraud is just a low-rent shill (very low rent), unlike fat-Alex, a bottom-of-the-barrel shill truth be told, but he is committed to his ‘work’ such as it is, which is why we see little more than an endless stream of nonsense and non-sequitur’s from him.

This is why cloggen-fraud pimps Fat Alex up as if he were the second coming of Yahweh. It also helps explain why he constantly derails comments and threads as well. He just keeps flinging poo everywhere and doesn’t care if it sticks or not.

GregT on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 7:12 pm 



Boat,

“I guess your not to impressed with Putin’s mansion that ran 1 billion. Then he sold it for $300,000 later. Russian tax dollars at work.”

Wow, now that IS impressive!

WTF does that have to do with your little idiotic story about a 4800 sq ft house only costing 100 per month in energy?

Anonymouse on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 8:34 pm 



Greg, where that brain-fart came from, who knows, or cares. The most expensive mansion in the world, is reportedly, Antilla, a garish looking eyesore in India, of all places. Supposedly worth over 1 billion, but there some dispute over its 1-2 billion valuation.

President Putin’s name, never comes up in any search for the worlds most costly mansions no matter how you phrase it. In fact by far ,the bulk of the worlds most expensive homes are located either in the UK, or the US. None listed in Russia, let alone a billion dollar mansion Putin supposedly sold for 300k. At least according to our resident village retard.

As to what that has to do with anything, even if it had any basis in reality, again, who knows……

GregT on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 9:14 pm 



Putin didn’t become public enemy number one in the U.S. Anonymouse, until after he kicked out the Jewish Oligarchs that took over Russia during Boris the alcoholic Yeltsin’s tenure. Strange that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2Cl8lSv9Is

Shortend on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 9:58 pm 



I like the guy..read his book SnakeOil
As far as a new…cross that bridge after that snakeoil tap is turned off.
Its easy now to speculate, but think its going to be called something different, like SHTF.

Apneaman on Thu, 17th Aug 2017 11:01 pm 



clog

“I do not need hope. Hope is for suckers,..”

“For me Heinberg en Tverberg are just another examples of depressed, nihilistic people without hope, who project their despair onto the future of the world of energy”

So using your own words and so called logic Heinberg and Tverberg are not suckers because they are “without hope”?

Kinda tripping on your own words there and contradictory as per usual.

Since you don’t need hope does that mean you are a depressed and nihilistic person too? Perhaps that only applies to Heinberg and Tverberg and others you deem so?

Special pleading. Another logical fallacy.

Cloggie on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 3:08 am 



So using your own words and so called logic Heinberg and Tverberg are not suckers because they are “without hope”?

As per usual you try to twist things via dialectics, as per usual with your Talmud-DNA.

I said hope (based on nothing) is for suckers, like believing in 72 virgins reward after you have blown yourself up. That does NOT mean that if you have no hope that you are not a sucker. You have a huge problem with elementary logic (or rather you don’t but you attempt in vain to wrong-foot your opponent by inserting little logical falsehoods).

They are suckers because they are defeatists. And plain wrong. For those two reasons.

Davy on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 5:12 am 



Both Heinberg and Gail are good reads. I have all Heinberg’s books. I don’t follow either anymore much but that does not mean they are irrelevant. Heinberg anymore is fake green and preaching false hope to keep his constituency. He knows better but he also knows he will lose his followers if he reality checks them.

I am on an adapted doom track post 2005-2009 doom. I have moderated and hope we have more than the 3-5 years I once felt was the trigger point. We may have 10-20 in a downward process of decline and decay. That is if we don’t blow ourselves up in the process.

pointer on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 6:45 am 



How about a new spirituality where we practice thinking for ourselves (to the extent possible; it gets easier with practice), and to wipe away the illusions we got into the habit of believing?

joe on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 9:34 am 



People on the wrong side of arguments always question the qualifications of those presenting the idea. Before CC became accepted fact the oil companies spend billions tearing down anyone who tried to speak up. Net result? The feild is left open to people like Heinberg who have used data and info gathered by perfectly good scientists who simply could not get a voice, or tv spot on the news or a documentary made back when it would have made a difference. So now it’s too late. The only debatable is how bad it will be. We could lose some or all of our global economy, we might have an impact on severity, but our easiest days are behind us guys, the next recessions will step down society and degrade our infrastructure as we cling on to what we have, oil is the cause of that, peak oil is the tune we play to. No amount of Trumps, or torn down statues or gay marriages will fix diminishing returns on energy invested.

Davy on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 12:47 pm 



“Deadly South Asia floods affect 16m people”
http://tinyurl.com/y9mrubtf

“Martin Faller, IFRC’s deputy regional director, said more than a third of Bangladesh and Nepal were flooded, while about 11 million people across four northern Indian states were also affected. Tens of thousands of people have been displaced. “This is fast becoming one of the most serious humanitarian crises this region has seen in many years, and urgent action is needed to meet the growing needs of millions of people affected by these devastating floods,” Mr Faller said in a statement. “Millions of people across Nepal, Bangladesh and India face severe food shortages and disease caused by polluted flood waters.”