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Page added on March 30, 2017
Environmentalists need to “end the charade” against oil sands
According to the Canada West Foundation, keeping the oil sands in the ground and stopping new pipelines “will actually increase greenhouse gas emissions” – wait, what?
At an energy conference deep in American oil country earlier this month, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau received an award for his global energy and environmental leadership.
“No country would find 173 billion barrels of oil in the ground and just leave them there,” he told oil and gas execs. “Our job is to ensure that this is done responsibly, safely and sustainably.”
One environmental group called the award a middle finger to the entire premise of environmental leadership.
But Calgary-based think tank the Canada West Foundation says it’s time environmentalists “end the charade.” Keeping the oil sands in the ground and stopping new pipelines “will actually increase greenhouse gas emissions,” argues the foundation’s newly-minted CEO, former Liberal leadership candidate Martha Hall Findlay, in a Globe op-ed.
Wait, what?
The former Willowdale MP insists she’s no climate change denier. She backed the Kyoto Accord in her 2006 leadership bid, even while supporting pipelines. She has become a trusty defender of the oil sands as Canada’s ever-cleaner and -greener economic engine.
Claim Peak oil isn’t coming any time soon, she argues, and “the world will use more oil even if Canada’s pipelines are stopped and oil sands remain in the ground.”
Reality check Findlay is referring to the International Energy Agency reports that suggest oil demand won’t start shrinking until well after 2040. But Royal Dutch Shell CEO Ben van Beurden told the same conference Trudeau attended that global demand for oil could peak and start falling within the decade, the very week Shell dumped its oil sands assets.
Says van Beurden, “Social acceptance is just disappearing,” especially as efficiency and greener substitutions start sapping demand. Either way, oil sands oil is some of the priciest to extract on the planet, which is why Exxon and ConocoPhillips recently wrote down 3.5 billion and 1 billion barrels of tar sands oil reserves and Norway’s Statoil walked away from Alberta entirely back in December to “optimize” its global portfolio – and shift 20 per cent of its capital spending to renewables over the next decade.
Claim Findlay contends the oil sands are no longer dirtier than other crudes. Newer projects in Alberta using paraffinic froth treatment (PTF) bring oil sands GHG emissions close to those of the average crude.
Reality check “The whole thing is a lie,” Oil Change International’s Adam Scott tells NOW.. “Over the last 10 years, the greenhouse gas intensity of the oil sands has gone up, not down.”
The Pembina Institute’s Benjamin Israel adds that “while the oil sands industry did make some significant one-off improvements in emissions intensity about 25 years ago (when moving to co-generation and less carbon-intensive-burning- fuels) they haven’t improved in a decade.”
Israel says carbon intensity is only expected to increase in coming years as companies drill for deeper higher emission bitumen and as distance to the processing facility increases.
All those ads suggesting the oil industry is reclaiming tailings ponds are BS, too. Big Oil has repeatedly failed to meet regulated targets to clean up over a trillion litres of toxic tailings. (Notably, Alberta just rejected Suncor’s plan to reclaim its tailing pond by pouring water on top of it).
Claim Alberta’s climate policies are super-stringent compared with other oil-producing regions and will help drive down carbon intensity even more, according to Findlay.
Reality check There’s no question Alberta’s 100-megatonne emissions cap is a step in the right direction, but that cap still technically allows the oil sands’ greenhouse gases to grow a whopping 30 per cent in the next decade or so.
A 2016 report by the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives has calculated that if oil sands production grows to 100 megatonnes per year and BC builds just one LNG (liquefied natural gas) export terminal, emissions in the rest of Canada’s economy would have to shrink by 47 per cent by 2030 to meet Paris targets. “Short of an economic collapse, it is difficult to see how Canada can realistically meet its Paris commitments in the 14 years remaining without rethinking its plans for oil and gas development,” says the report.
Claim Enviros need to focus on real climate action, like reducing demand, says Findlay.
Reality check Findlay’s clear. She feels the world’s GHG emission problem doesn’t lie with poor, bullied -fossil fuel producers that are just meeting demand, but with all of us who are creating that demand.
Scott, however, says there’s a reason environmentalists around the globe target the oil sands. “It’s because projects in the tar sands are designed to last 50 years or longer.”
In the oil sands, he says, a big mine would produce 200,000 barrels a day of oil, continuously, locking us into emissions for decades to come. “There are a bunch of mines like that, and there’s a new one coming online next year. Once they’re built, it’s very difficult politically and economically to shut them.”
71 Comments on "Environmentalists need to “end the charade” against oil sands"
Revi on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:02 am
Tar sands are the dirtiest oil on the planet. No way to put lipstick on that pig! Fortunately there is no need for them now that there is a “glut” on the market.
rockman on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:19 am
Revi – “Fortunately there is no need for them now that there is a “glut” on the market.” Buddy, good to keep the reality in perspective: no oil well has ever been drilled or ever will be drilled because of a “need” for that oil.
Wells are drilled to make a profit. And that profit is made possible because of the demands of fossil fuel consumers. If the folks didn’t by the refinery products made from the oil sands not one bbl would be produced. If environmentalists want to stop oil sands production they need to figure out how to discourage the CONSUMERS from buying those products.
Right, good luck with that. LOL. So far any such efforts have been a complete failure.
Plantagenet on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:13 am
Canadian PM Justin Trudeau says the tar sands are ecologically OK. Why should we doubt him? He’s the leader of the liberal party in Canada—the very personification of liberalness. Surely he wouldn’t mislead us.
Cheers!
artist-formerly-davy-fan on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:29 am
OK, I think oil is good and sand is good and this is in Canada so it’s OK with me. I mean a lot of land is not occupied so it’s OK. Wouldn’t it clean the land and clean the environment of oil? There’s a flipside to everything.
Yes, it’s the dirtiest oil but I already established nuke is the dirtiest FUEL.
Not to mention lousy EROEI.
prop to rockman, probably a vet from alasbabylon days.
Apneaman on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:51 am
Since environmentalism and environmentalists have not prevented even one barrel of oil from being consumed – ever, you have to wonder what the kings of cancer are on about.
These retards are the flip side of all the liberals who want to hang 250 years of industrial cancer destruction on Trump and the other useful idiot deniers, except they are trying to scapegoat environmentalists for the economic failure of the tar sands. Same thing, same strategy as Trump and his cancer crew. Someone has to be blamed for a failing system and there is no way a true believer with a lifetime of sunk emotional costs is ever going to admit that his religion (neo liberal capitalism) is dying.
Almost daily we see these political tribal monkey’s become more removed from reality.
Here is a present from King of Cancer Cheeto to his people – LMFAO
Trump to Toss Obama’s Orders to Prepare for Extreme Weather
New order will reverse policies for climate adaptation
Military bases, coastal towns were protected under planning
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-27/trump-said-to-toss-obama-s-orders-to-prepare-for-extreme-weather
Extreme weather is a hoax propagated by Kim Jong-un and the Workers Party of Korea.
Midnight Oil on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:54 am
I stopped reading after
No country would find 173 billion barrels of oil in the ground and just leave them there,” he told oil and gas execs. “Our job is to ensure that this is done responsibly, safely and sustainably.”
First, it ain’t oil, second it ain’t and can’t be done responsibly, safely or sustainably!
Just PR BS….
BobInget on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 1:00 pm
Coal ain’t electricity either. Before ‘outlawing’ oil sands we shudda done something about killer coal.
How many here remember 1257?
Queen Eleanor, fleeing the fumes created by heavy use of sea-coal in Nottingham Castle in 1257, issued one of many fruitless royal bans on coal burning. By the fifteenth century, London’s skies were regularly blackened with coal smoke. Many residents blamed the region’s foggy weather for the persistent greyed airs.
OK Maybe some can recall 1957…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London
Location, London, England, United Kingdom. Casualties. 12,000 Dead. 200,000 Injured. The Great Smog of 1952, sometimes called The Big Smoke , was a severe air-pollution event … There were also numerous coal-fired power stations in the Greater London area, including Fulham, Battersea, Bankside and Kingston upon …
Anticyclone · 1948 Donora smog · Clean Air Act 1956 · Pea soup fog
First things first. There are substitutes for coal.
To date, none for oil.
Jerome Purtzer on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 1:16 pm
Q for the Rock. If the tar sands are being sold at a loss what is the profit motive of these companies in Canada?
artist-formerly-davy-fan on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 1:22 pm
@rock and jerome just because something doesn’t work out in the food chain doesn’t mean it’s not a valid chain.
Our existence is bad for the lower animals but we still do it, don’t we?
Revi on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 1:24 pm
Of course, blame it on the environmentalists…
Davy on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 2:11 pm
Artist, did I piss you off or did having a stupid name like Davy get old? What part of the world are you from if I may ask?
rockman on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 2:53 pm
Jerome – Do you believe companies have spent tens of $billions or the oil sands if there wasn’t a profit being made? I don’t think we’ve chatted before but if you answer yes to that question I doubt we’ll ever chat again.
Revi – No, the environmentalists are not to blame. The consumers of fossil fuels are by far the greatest DIRECT producers of GHG. The environmentalists have done a great job of laying out the story. But as long as consumer put their well being above that of the environment nothing will change to any significant level.
The environmental move is not at fault… it’s just impotent to change the path we’re on. Not taking a swipe at you…you’re fighting the good fight and deserve credit for that effort. But how much GHG production has your efforts prevented? That doesn’t mean your position is wrong…just not very effective.
rockman on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 2:57 pm
artist – “Our existence is bad for the lower animals but we still do it, don’t we?” Just as when the wolves take out to much of their food base resulting in the wolf population dying off. Mankind is subject to Mother Earth’s rules just like all the other animals.
DerHundistlos on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 3:08 pm
This is the complete account of what happened to me on January 16th, 2004. I think after reading it you’ll understand why I didn’t submit it before. I believed it to be too “out there” and would destroy my limited credibility, but now I’ve changed my mind and think it’s important to get everything in the public domain, no matter how bizarre.
It started with me waking up within my dream. I remember the time frame of my thought process. I still, no matter how futile, want to convince skeptics, although I know, deep down it’s a waste of time without any scientific proof. I guess I’m still trying to convince my former self, my old skeptical self before any of this Alien strangeness manifested in my life.
I woke up, I don’t know where I was but I was standing in front of what looked like a 3-D hologram of the Earth. Everything was pitch black apart from this glowing globe. I could only see half the sphere, the top part of the globe; it was about a meter wide with very realistic detail, I could see the major land masses covered with wisps of clouds. It was like looking down from a satellite’s viewpoint. I couldn’t see anything else, like a room or anything, just darkness.
I heard a deep voice from behind me, it was a male voice and in slow English it started to explain how this hologram globe worked, all I had to do was touch a continent or a country and information would appear detailing anything I wanted to know about that place. I didn’t feel scared, I felt quite calm but just a little tired, slightly dazed.
I put my hand forward and watched it pass through the clouds. This was incredible. The first country I decided to choose (seeing that it was in the news so much) was Iraq. All I did was think about it and the globe turned itself until Iraq was below my finger.
As I touched the graphic representation of Iraq it turned bright red and rose up above the neighboring countries. Immediately without any warning multiple images and data appeared. The images were in rounded boxes of variable sizes, showing detailed information about the country and the recent war.
Now, this is the hard bit to describe, but I could also feel the emotional collective of Iraq and it’s people, the pain they’ve inflicted and the pain they’ve suffered (I don’t know how to explain it but it was like tapping into some kind of energy field (flow). The voice said “this is the birth place of your civilization, now look at the state of it”.
While I was just trying to make sense of it, the globe moved until I was looking at America. I pressed on the USA, and again it went bright red and raised itself and I was hit by a wave of figures and information, so fast I couldn’t take it all in. I was shown ‘Sept 11’ and the subsequent decisions to go to war. I was still thinking about Iraq, trying to take it all in. The information/data was coming at me too fast to process. I’ve replicated some computer images to demonstrate the rate of information flow.
I have great difficulty thinking about what I saw next and recalling it fills me with dread.
I was shown a deep underground military base with seven circular levels, connected by a vertical shaft. On the seventh and largest level I was shown a cross section revealing humans working with gray type aliens and large praying mantis type aliens.
There were literary thousands of aliens; I saw a figure that seemed to imply around 14 000 aliens in this base. So if this is to be believed, not only do aliens exist, but they also seem very well established on Earth. The base was somewhere in a desert.
I laughed to myself, “oh great, so it’s true then and I’m now in conspiracy hell.” (Before I didn’t really buy that new world order conspiracy stuff) but that’s what I was shown. Again, who’s going to believe this?
Significantly, the male voice said, “We have tried to communicate with them, in the past, but they lie to us and try to use us, you kill what you do not understand, you humans are still so un-evolved.”
At this point I tried to argue, “Some of us are trying to evolve but we have to fight the ones that (for want of a better word) ‘aren’t so evolved’, not because we’re cruel but because they want to kill us!” The voice didn’t seem interested in having a debate.
With no real pattern of context, I was next shown American corporations, and how they won’t stop until they own whatever resources they can lay their hands on.
Again I felt the crimes, the pain and the collective creed and sadness of the culture. Capitalism out of control. (Interestingly I was shown a figure detailing how much energy the average American consumes). The rate of information coming at me was becoming too intense. The voice said to me “time is running out, do you now understand?”
I then pressed Canada to. Again readouts appeared. I was shown a fragmented society I could feel the collective culture. I was shown a UFO crash on the northern border with Alaska, northeast of the country. I was shown the Canadian government helping to ship the wreckage and aliens to America, then they were being taken to the under ground base I was shown earlier. I then thought about British Columbia. The voice goes “Why do you want to reveal us? As you can see humans, destroy what they can’t understand” I thought to myself “oh shit it can read my thoughts, this is crazy but it’s still A DREAM right!?!”
I thought I must try and get as much information as possible (I was amazed). I thought China could be interesting, again the hologram turned until I could see China.
I quickly pressed on China and was shown how their government perceives itself to be (as the voice described) “Divine”. Which I thought was a strange word to use. The voice behind me continued “They think that is why we are working with them”.
I was shown how they’re waiting for the west to fall (on its own accord) and then the Chinese will be the rightful leaders of the world. I was shown that there’s going to be in conflict with the world just for extra food stocks to supply its population. I was shown that they’re sitting on huge resources but they’re saving them. I could also feel and see the mega death potential of the nuclear missiles. I could once again feel or ‘tune in’ to the frustration of the people.
I felt depressed at this moment and hoped what I was shown was not true.
I thought of Europe and pressed Spain. I have a Spanish friend so thought any information I could get could be cross-referenced, plus I thought Spain would not be an obvious choice; my knowledge about Spain is limited at best…
Just by thinking about it, the globe hologram moved around from China to Spain. But, as I went to press Spain, my finger missed and I accidentally pressed the sea just off the coast of Spain. Immediately, a circle of rounded squares rose up from the ocean. Each square revealed a picture of an animal. The first box showed a sea bird, kind of like an eagle, the word extinct appeared next to it, this disappeared and I witnessed a sea lion followed by a fish. The words extinct were next to it; all in English. As the fish was shown I thought about the fishing stocks, and again, at the mere thought about fish, high speed data flashed above the earth depicting (again too fast to read) facts and figures concerning the depleted fish resources. I was shown fishing boats pulling in huge amounts of fish, beginning with the coast of Spain then across the Atlantic sea and finally finishing with the whole world. All different types of countries, fishing the oceans, depleting resources.
The voice behind me spoke in an unemotional matter of fact way, “You see, they won’t stop until there’s nothing left. This is fact”. I weakly replied there must be something that can to be done, I mean, what about international treaties?
I stared at the destruction and the ‘knock on’ effect. Everything’s connected. One bit of the information I definitely recall depicted was Orcas (killer whales) off the coast of Canada starving because of the lack of salmon. This was happening all so fast.
I decided to go back to Spain, this time my finger found its target. Straight away, I could feel the collective conscience of the country. Every Living Life form is energy.
I was shown an image of what looked like 16th century Spanish soldiers meeting gray aliens and tall praying mantis looking aliens. The Spanish soldiers without warning pulled out their swords and began hacking the aliens apart. The voice commented on the scene of destruction “You see, you kill what you don’t understand, what you fear you destroy” (I was annoyed by the way the voice kept referring to me as a collective for the whole Human population)
I was then shown images and data which concluded that this incident lead to the rise of the Spanish inquisition. According to the voice many people were killed who were in contact with these so called demons. Again this is not something that I’d normally believe in, so I don’t believe it could have come from my sub conscious. Then again maybe I’m wrong, maybe the whole thing was merely a graphic representation of my sub conscious view of the planet.The voice commanded “It’s time to go. Now do you understand?”
My last image I recall was of the globe pulling away from me and ‘seeing’ energy fields from all the country’s populations pushing against each other in a desire to control the planet, even though it will ultimately destroy it. I tell you, we paint a depressing picture from space.
deadlykillerbeaz on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 3:08 pm
If the environ-mentalists want a clean planet and not have the tar sands all dirty and stuff, then they can relocate to Athabasca and start cleaning.
Those environ-mentalists are such dirty, filthy swine themselves.
Midnight Oil on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 3:12 pm
Cleaning? With what? Toilet Paper?
The fact is there is NO reclamation, there is no restoration, it is just devastation.
DerHundistlos on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 3:48 pm
@ Deadlykiller Troll
You poor sick and evil thing- overflowing with anger toward those working to save life on Earth. I often wish each person had an opportunity to choose one of two Earths, but once the decision is made it’s binding. Killer Troll chooses the Earth where environmentalists are drawn and quartered and I choose the other Earth where preservation of the living Earth is priority number one.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 3:56 pm
DerHund,
Your bat shyt crazy.
onlooker on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 4:06 pm
Derhund, thanks for revealing your story. The ET question is from what I know an open question, I have seen corroborating info, so consistent with keeping my mind open, I have no reason to simply dismiss the veracity of your story
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 4:17 pm
It is useless to be pro or anti oil unless there is a cheaper alternative for each product. Climate change might whipe out a billion humans and increase the pace of change.
deadlykillerbeaz on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 5:11 pm
Was ist los, derhundistlos? Can’t recognize sarcasm and humor?
Environmentalists protested the DAPL along the Missouri River in North Dakota.
The environmentalists left 200 abandoned cars and trucks, filled the protest camp with 500 tons of trash and it all did not seem to bother them too much. That they were making a huge mess on what was pristine virgin land.
The Water Protecters, the environmentalists, do not have a clue about saving the earth nor do they even consider conserving resources.
Environmentalists hate everything, period.
Raising hell and causing trouble is all they can accomplish.
I will see them all in hell.
newfie on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 5:14 pm
Justin Trumpeau says Drill Baby Drill. Who would have thought ?
a on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 6:01 pm
It may actually be that there is a future for the Oil Sands – even if the energy return becomes negative at some point. The competition to the oil sands is the battery powered car which has a negative return on energy and a heavy environmental cost for the batteries and electricity consumption.
makati1 on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 6:16 pm
a, and then there may be a future without either. THAT one has a 99.999% certainty of happening. No one here addresses the TOTAL SYSTEM that makes oil use possible. THAT is what is going away, not the amount left in what form or where or what price.
Economies, financial systems, war, disease, and yes, even climate change ALL have their effect on oil and its use. Ditto natural gas, coal and ALL other energy sources except solar, in the form of sunlight. Any one of those parts can stop the flow, permanently.
Think about it.
Jef on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:07 pm
Just think of the tar sands operations as one big clean up project. Their doing it for the planet.
Anonymouse on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:08 pm
Our resident deflector-in-chief, rocketman, always on the job, deflecting blame away from his beloved oil cartel, and onto, ‘consumers’.
Yes, rocky, if only ‘consumers’ would mend their wicked and misguided ways, then the saintly executives at BP, EM, Chevron etc all, wouldn’t be forced to ravage the earth (on ‘consumers’ behalf of course), just to keep them ‘happy’.
There is such a thing as market totalitarianism you know (you either dont or pretend you dont). The so-called ‘free market’ is missing one key ‘freedom’, the freedom of choice. The ‘free-market’ deals primarily in the illusion of choice, not the reality of it. And in the current paradigm, the freedom from amerikan for-profit corporate fossil-fuel, is simply not an a option that is one the table.
Its a lot more complex a problem than your blame-the-victim(or consumer in this case) tropes. I know how you love to rail against hypocritical protesters that drive cars or have plastic things, and spin tales of uS presidents that oversee and determine uS oil extraction and so on, but still…
You are, like a good deflectors, promoting the myth of ‘consumer sovereignty’. And it is just that, a ‘myth’. Oil demand, and prices, are widely held to be anemic currently, yet that has little effect on uS attempts to spur production, and thus, by implication, drive greater consumption. I dont see many ‘consumers’ vocally demanding greater access to oil. What we DO see however, is uS oil corporations, and their sycophants, constantly seeking to bring ‘new’ oil online, no matter the cost. So just who exactly, is driving ‘demand’, rockerman?
DerHundistlos on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:13 pm
@ Boat
Funny how people like yourself who have spent ZERO time investigating the topic are so cock-sure about what they don’t know. As William S. Buroughs stated so eloquently in response to a debunker like yourself, “You fool, the purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained not explain the un-investigated.” According to your stupidity you must also classify the following as crazy as well: Presidents Carter, Nixon, Eisenhower, Reagan, Mikhail Gorbachev, Professor Stephen Hawking, Dr. Herman Oberth/Dr. Wernher von Braun/Dr. Walther Riedel (fathers of modern rocketry), General Douglas MacArthur, Astronauts Gordon Cooper and Edgar Mitchell, Air Chief Marshal Lord Dowding, Canada Minister of Defense Paul Hellyer, Walter Cronkite, John Lennon, William S. Buroughs, etc, etc.
Shame this so upsets your preconceived notions.
DerHundistlos on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:20 pm
@ onlooker
I understood the truth for the first time in 1978. I grew up on a family farm in mid Missouri. Back in 1978 a community not far from us named Elysberry experienced a rash of cattle mutilations and simultaneous UFO sightings by many, many folks, including the sheriff. Please understand that these are serious minded farmers. Most are decedents of German immigrants. They take good care of their land and livestock and are not in any way prone to joking around.
By good fortune I discovered a YouTube video that is a compilation of news reports filed by the ABC news affiliate station in St. Louis (back when the news was real news and not tabloid gossip). Of particular interest, note the report that no scavengers would touch the carcass. Normally, blow flies would be all over the dead animal, but instead thousands and thousands of blow flies were stuck to the trees, branches and fencing around the various dead cattle. A sample of the dead flies was collected by ABC and submitted to the Ralston Purina Laboratory in St. Louis for analysis (Ralston was based in St. Louis) and to the scientists utter shock it was discovered that the flies died of a fungal infection NEVER before seen outside of a laboratory environment. Now, I think you would agree that this is indeed newsworthy. Here is a link to the YouTube video titled, “Elysberry, Missouri Cattle Mutilations (1978)”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1s8tyWDrAQ
onlooker on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:54 pm
Wow Derhund. Why don’t you post more of your info in the main forums section. I, and I am sure others would be interested
Sissyfuss on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 7:55 pm
Derhund, I found your vision interesting and ominous. We will never decipher the mysteries of the universe but will ruin our home while pretending we can. The warnings are coming at us ever faster and greater in volume yet we ignore them at are increasing peril. I share your dispair at what we are witnessing but I have no solutions. Peace.
dissident on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 8:18 pm
Boat has a sock puppet. Cute.
As for the “free market” it is a vapid term as used by the average schmuck since they do not apply it correctly. A free market is an ideal state when the number of producers/players is large enough that they are making nearly zero profit. This gives the consumer the most choice and the best price. The oil “market” is an oligopoly racket and looks nothing like a free market. Any “market” that has a handful of serious players (stripper well operators do not make any difference whatsoever) is much closer to a monopoly since collusion is very lucrative and very easy. It is much, much harder to coordinate thousands of players, in which case collusion does not rule the market.
Anti-trust laws are supposed to counteract the collusion of oligopolies but they are impossible to enforce. The collusion does not even require conspiracy meetings and can be fully emergent. This is why the taxpayer is raped in every orifice by the private sectors via its dear elected government. In Canada we have the three bidder requirement. This is some sort of sick joke since for big projects involving billions of dollars there are only a handful of bidders and so we have no lowest bid. We have a fake “low” bid that keeps every player happy. The players will never underbid each other since it is rational for them to take turns at being the winning bidder. And the spineless government employees overseeing this sham process will lose their jobs if they make waves and have negative incentive to fight for the best price. This is one of the main reasons why the politicians whine about not having enough money and why they rack up the debt.
onlooker on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 8:48 pm
Capitalism as practiced by modern man is anything but free or fair. It is the rule of money by any means
deadlykillerbeaz on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:10 pm
I saw in the sky around 10:00 am one morning a bright light. It was too late in the day to be a star or a planet, the position of the reflected light was too close to the earth to be a star, definitely not a satellite.
I kept an eye on the bright light that was an obvious reflection. It was stationary and it was difficult to figure out the real deal.
Suddenly, it began to move. Within ten seconds, it was gone.
It was a flying craft that some nut constructed for the hell of it.
It was a sight that will never be forgotten, also, a sighting that no one ever believes, even if it is true.
The entire world lives in denial.
I will never be able to figure it out, total weirdness.
makati1 on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:10 pm
No matter what you do, it is ALWAYS about money, in a ‘capitalist’ society.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:15 pm
Capitalism is being able to make a better widget for a cheaper price, by doing so they capture a larger market share which is good for the investor and the consumer.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:22 pm
Dissident,
Russia/OPEC colluded to raise oil prices by cutting production. US producers using recent tech gains and more efficient methods of fracking dropped their costs enough to raise production from their lows 600,000 bpd negating much of the cuts. That’s capitalism, it’s a market, not a US gov controlled program.
DerHundistlos on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:28 pm
@ onlooker & Siss
Great idea to post in the main forum section. Now that I know members of this bog whom I respect are interested in what this all means, I will initiate the conversation in the next few days. Please participate. Thank you for the encouragement.
makati1 on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:47 pm
The “consumer” is dying. The ability to consume by the West, and its wannabees, is contracting quickly. The ability of ‘capitalism’ to continue is evaporating. The global economy is fracturing. The end is near for “investors”(leeches) and it can not come too soon. The only way to avoid a world war is to make it too expensive and financially impossible. Collapse now and save the planet.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 9:49 pm
DerHund,
You can find much bigger lists supporting religion. I don’t believe any of it. Now if you can come up with some pics of you with them aliens, you know, scientific proof………
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 10:02 pm
mak,
Meanwhile the guy who brought us Amazon just overtook Buffet as the no 2 ranked billionaire. You buy shyt online eliminating the need for all that infrastructure called stores. This mates consumers with products at a cheaper price and lower carbon footprint. PS not a Jew. Lol
makati1 on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 10:13 pm
Boat, I don’t give a damn about greedy leeches using the system to get richer and richer on the sweat of those who actually work for a living. They, and their kind, are just assholes in my world and the main cause of the end of humanity. They would ALL be gone if I could make them vanish, and the Stock Market Casino and Federal Reserve would be history. Mother Nature is my ‘god’, not money.
onlooker on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 10:24 pm
Mother Nature is my ‘god’, not money.—
Too bad for many that is inverted
onlooker on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 10:32 pm
https://srsroccoreport.com/media-deludes-americans-shale-oil-production-suffers-massive-decline-rates/
“Currently, the top four shale oil fields in the United States (Permian, Eagle Ford, Bakken & Niobrara) produced 4.8 mbd of oil. So, for the United States to become oil independent, we would have to double current shale oil production in these top four fields.
You see, that is a huge undertaking because these top shale oil fields are suffering from extremely high annual decline rates. “
GregT on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:15 pm
derhund,
“Now that I know members of this bog whom I respect are interested in what this all means, I will initiate the conversation in the next few days.”
I would be interested as well. I’ve also had similar experiences.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:32 pm
greggiet,
https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/production/pdf/table5.pdf
You keep saying oil today just doesn’t deliver as much energy. Short made this claim many times. Notice how condensate under lower 48 total shows how little over 50 api is produced. Heavy oil/convential is not worth any more by price and has larger percentages. Most fracked oil fits in the same range as convential oil.
If you read rocks posts you would know much of that condensate is used to dilute canadian tar sands. But the refineries or oil hubs do a final mix that delivers a 32 api the refineries process. 37 api considered the best is also mixed to get to 32.
Boat on Thu, 30th Mar 2017 11:34 pm
greggiet,
Are those aliens anti Jew also? American haters?
Apneaman on Fri, 31st Mar 2017 12:06 am
The majority of humans will play monkey politics well past their due date. When it comes to AGW & 6th mass extinction, y’all well past the due date. Physics, chemistry and biologly is what is happening and they have nothing to do with the politics. All the evidence that has been accumulated indicates that the rate of change of the planet and biosphere is unprecedented in the history of life on the planet.
A Halo of Storms and Heatwaves — New Study Confirms that Global Warming is Wrecking the Northern Hemisphere Jet Stream
https://robertscribbler.com/2017/03/30/a-halo-of-storms-and-heatwaves-new-study-confirms-that-global-warming-is-wrecking-the-northern-hemisphere-jet-stream/
DerHundistlos on Fri, 31st Mar 2017 12:12 am
@ Boat
Show me your list of current respected persons from the sciences, military, government, etc. who know God exists due to evidence (i.e. not faith)? You have none. For this reason your argument is foolish and unconvincing. I do not wish to waste my time with someone who already knows what he does not know. I know for a fact that you have never investigated the topic otherwise you would not offer sophomoric responses. You are emotionally glued to your position (as with climate change deniers). You will always find a reason to deny so we have nothing more to say to each other.
DerHundistlos on Fri, 31st Mar 2017 12:20 am
@ Boat who said, “greggiet, Are those aliens anti Jew also? American haters?”
Is this the best that you have? Very sad and quite pathetic. Speaks volumes of you. How you become so enraged that you resort to sophomoric name calling. See buffoonery. Seek medical attention.
Apneaman on Fri, 31st Mar 2017 12:30 am
Canada’s Melting Ice Caps Are a Big Driver of Rising Sea Levels
“Before 2000, these glaciers and ice caps were mostly stable. Though they were shrinking slightly, the changes were relatively small from year to year.
But new research published in the journal Environmental Research Letters shows that in 2005 there was a dramatic difference as Arctic temperatures climbed.
Arctic Deeply recently spoke with lead author Romain Millan, a PhD candidate at the University of California, Irvine, who says the Queen Elizabeth Islands are now a major contributor to sea-level rise.”
https://www.newsdeeply.com/arctic/community/2017/03/09/canadas-melting-ice-caps-are-a-big-driver-of-rising-sea-levels
Arctic amplification: Temperatures keep getting crazier up north
Feedback loops between record Arctic temperatures and the jet stream may be altering our weather
“In the past year the climate in the Arctic has at times bordered on the absurd. Temperatures were 30 to 50 degrees Fahrenheit above average in some places during the recent Christmas week. Through November the area of ice-covered ocean in the region reached a record low in seven of 11 months — an unprecedented stretch. More important, perhaps, the difference between Arctic temperatures and those across the midlatitudes of North America, Europe and Asia during 2016 was the smallest ever seen.”
“How unusual is the ongoing string of Arctic climate records?
The records are astounding because there are so many of them. The extra warming that is happening up in the Arctic — the “Arctic amplification” — has been the greatest we’ve ever seen. We’ve also seen the lowest sea-ice thickness, and we’ve seen the greatest amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. That one doesn’t usually make headlines but it should; that water vapour comes from more evaporation because there is more exposed, open ocean. Also, a lot more water vapour is being transported northward by big swings in the jet steam. That’s important because water vapor is a greenhouse gas just like carbon dioxide and methane.”
http://www.salon.com/2017/01/06/arctic-amplification-temperatures-keep-getting-crazier-up-north_partner/
Guess why you never hear much about water vapour as a powerful greenhouse gas?
Cause you can’t directly pin it on big oil or coal. One needs to understand the hydrologic cycle first and positive feedbacks and so on and that’s just too complicated for retard simple politics. The upper management and think tanks of both the big US political tribes works real hard to not cause the voters to start having to think about things too much and heaven forbid investigate them on their own. Keep it simple and emotionally charged.
Greenhouse Gases – Water Vapor
“Water Vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, which is why it is addressed here first. However, changes in its concentration is also considered to be a result of climate feedbacks related to the warming of the atmosphere rather than a direct result of industrialization. The feedback loop in which water is involved is critically important to projecting future climate change, but as yet is still fairly poorly measured and understood.
As the temperature of the atmosphere rises, more water is evaporated from ground storage (rivers, oceans, reservoirs, soil). Because the air is warmer, the absolute humidity can be higher (in essence, the air is able to ‘hold’ more water when it’s warmer), leading to more water vapor in the atmosphere. As a greenhouse gas, the higher concentration of water vapor is then able to absorb more thermal IR energy radiated from the Earth, thus further warming the atmosphere. The warmer atmosphere can then hold more water vapor and so on and so on.”
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/greenhouse-gases.php?section=watervapor