The Landscape of Energy

9 Comments on "The Landscape of Energy"

BillT on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 10:54 am 



“… Perhaps the most worrisome aspect of emerging technologies is the hope they instill in us that technology can ultimately defeat all environmental limits, allowing economic and population growth to continue exponentially, indefinitely. In a finite world, that is a false hope….”

BINGO!

Arthur on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 12:49 pm 



Here is the pdf:

http://energy-reality.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/14_The-Landscape-of-Energy_R2_122812.pdf

Arthur on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 12:55 pm 



“… Perhaps the most worrisome aspect of emerging technologies is the hope they instill in us that technology can ultimately defeat all environmental limits, allowing economic and population growth to continue exponentially, indefinitely. In a finite world, that is a false hope….”

Better a false hope than a certain ‘Four Horsemen’ die-off death. That’s no hope at all. I am slightly sceptical about the ‘thou shalt die’ moral imperative. That people draw the wrong conclusions from the emerging solar panels is no argument against solar panels, just an argument against jumping to conclusions. Better 30% of our current lifestyles than 0%.

Arthur on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 1:03 pm 



Oh and Bill, on page 2, the writers claim that solar panels have a net EROEI in the range of 10-20 and not a negative EROEI as you keep saying. You should intervene or else your Four Horsemen scenario will be doomed itself. Be prepared that the PostCarbon Institute will insist on proof. I am curious as well.

GregT on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 3:24 pm 



“One thing is clear: When it comes to energy, there is no free lunch. It would be foolish to assume that transitioning to renewable energy will solve all of our energy and environmental problems. Transitioning to renewables will certainly diminish ecological impacts in many ways, but it will also have new and mostly unknown consequences. For example, both solar and battery technology in their current iterations depend on rare metals and other natural resources that are unevenly distributed around the world. A full scale switch to renewable energy may merely supplant one dependency for another.”

Not to mention the small fact, that the “other natural resources” all require the extensive use of fossil fuels in their extraction, refinement, and manufacturing. The 2 ton elephant in the room, that is Climate Change, will not be averted by continuing to dump even more CO2 into the atmosphere.

The “‘Four Horsemen’ die-off death” will be a result of Climate Change, not a result of our lack of electricity.

Arthur on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 4:54 pm 



“For example, both solar and battery technology in their current iterations depend on rare metals and other natural resources that are unevenly distributed around the world.”

http://tinyurl.com/bu6alzf

No rare earths are necessary for solar cells. And then there is the thin film development with solar cells of merely a few nanometer thick… or plastic solar cells.

Not sure about climate change, have no intuition about it. I do know that I have never longed more for the end of the winter than I did this year. But I thought we already agreed on reducing fossil fuel, for starters because we have to, since it will begin to run out in a few years (peak non-renewable energy 2018).

moli on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 7:59 pm 



the gog magog came and devoured all they could as fast as they could and will perish leaving their decaying relics in the doomed cities of heedless greed.
and man will awake from his stupor agast at the tyranny of his hands whilst he was intoxicated on the fossil century. and so the pending “doom” is really a blessing so that the sheeple may revisit the concience within. and perchance come to a reality that guides him to that if infinate value.

moli on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 8:19 pm 



the gog magog came and devoured all they could as fast as they could and will perish leaving their decaying relics in the doomed cities of heedless greed.
and man will awake from his stupor aghast at the tyranny of his hands whilst he was intoxicated on the fossil century. and so the pending “doom” is really a blessing so that the sheeple may revisit the conscience within. and perchance come to a reality that guides him to that of infinite value.

J-Gav on Tue, 23rd Apr 2013 10:05 pm 



The Dutch had a an interesting take on the question of hope in their 80-year war for independence from Spanish rule back in the 16th-17th centuries. I think it was William of Orange who put it something like this: “Hope is not necessary where there is perseverance.” 80 years? No denying that’s perseverance!
Do we have that sort of fortitude today? There are a few timid signs of it here and there but it’s not yet extremely convincing …