Simple, cheap living is possible for those who don’t consume by reflex

52 Comments on "Simple, cheap living is possible for those who don’t consume by reflex"

Makati1 on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:58 am 



One person that will hardly notice the coming crash. The US malls are full of shit no one needs. 95% of the stores could close and there would still be 4% too many. LOL

Davy on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 8:36 am 



While I agree with this man’s story it is not the optimum doomer view if you have income and or paper assets. While I practice many of those sacrifices this stoic individual preached I buy things that have post collapse value.

If you are a doomer and have income and or paper assets consider investing some or all of that in products, tools, and precious metals. I am all physical. I have nothing other then some income that is paper. I have some cash to weather a economic shock.

I recommend investments in tool with a future especially hand tools. AltE properly applied is a must investment. Products like food, ammo, hardware, and supplies are a must for a doomer.

For those of you that squawk carbon whore I say this will all be over within a few years. Consumerism and globalization is a dead man walking. I also want to stress buy items with a future that are not throw away. They will be heirlooms if we are lucky enough to have post globalism civilization. Buy needed items for survival, gifts, and barter now while they are cheap and availability.

Once you have a good doomed portfolio then invest in a lifestyle with a future. I highly recommend old world skills and agriculture. For those of you that squawk mad max well I can tell you this I may be able to bribe my way out of a bad situation with some goods and an assault rifle by my side.

Many of you that have disdain for the doomers are pussies. You are lazy and in denial. Many corns fit this category. Some have their whole sense of worth in that monthly statement that comes in the mail. What happens if the mail stops numb nuts? What are you worth then?

paulo1 on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 9:08 am 



The migration ‘crisis’ in Europe is just a teaser for what I believe is probable within the next 20 years, for all countries. We will be on the downside of affordable oil with consumption dropping yearly, jobs will be in decline and Climate Change will be relentless. As a Canadian I will await just how the US flexes to obtain our water. As a human and good neighbour I know we will share. As a realist I wonder just who is lining up to line their pockets with further wealth as this unfolds.

I am not talking Mad Max here, but if you told me in the ’70s a workingman could not afford to buy and run a pickup truck I wouldn’t have believed it. If you told me there would be no decent paying summer jobs for university students I would have said, “what are you talking about”? If you told me post secondary grads would have $40,000 debt and few prospects I would have scoffed. If you mentioned people could not afford to buy a home or pay for rent I would have thought you were talking about somewhere else. If you told me someone like Donald Trump was able to whip up crowds of ignorant louts for a run to the presidency it is beyond imagination. It is akin to the rise of Hitler, at least a rhyme of it.

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 9:28 am 



paulo,
The world is still very uncivilized. Massive population groups tend to listen to religious leaders and politicians even though common sense information that disputes their views are finger tips away. Humans love to blame others and take no responsibility. Even here at Peak Oil recession and lack of growth is a huge topic even when the world is growing and consuming on a pretty straight trajectory. Oil suppliers have actually overproduced causing a glut setting the world up for cheaper oil for some time to come.

One of the problems you mentioned is how industry has become so efficient they now no longer need so many workers. Try overpopulation on for size. If we had 10 jobs for every worker instead of 10 workers for every job I think we would be in much better shape. Just stop immigration. Legal and illegal. Simple enough. If your country has more people than jobs, your doing something wrong.

Davy on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 9:43 am 



Ther you go folks Boat solution to all our problems. “Stop immigrants and things will work out”. Wow that is easy. Let’s put the military at the Mexican border and shoot anything that moves like our other genius Hello recommended. Problem solved at least for the U.S.

Paulo, I have a feeling we will not have a US and a Canada in 20 years. We will likely have adapted regions around common bonds. You can bet people are going to be moving north. You can’t stop that. That is unless there is anything left up there after the boreal forests burn down and the tundra drys out.

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 9:57 am 



Davy,
Just jail any employer that hires illegal immigrants. The jobs would dry up quick. The US is in a different place today from decades past. Davy. Sustainability when it comes to water and other resources comes to mind. You tell me how less people would be a bad thing.

paulo1 on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:11 am 



Boat, this was a good idea. Jail the employers or fine them 2X what they save by hiring illegal. I don’t fault the migrants for seeking a better life. I do fault business for taking advantage of them, and all of us for expecting cheaper products built with exploited labour. Unfortunately, the business pays off the politicians and controls the media.

paulo1 on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:12 am 



I forgot to add that business likes this downward pressure on wages and worker expectations. It is still class warfare of the haves and those who do the work.

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:18 am 



paulo1,

The US has 1.7 persons per family on average. It takes 2.2 for population to break even. If it were not for illegal and legal immigration the US population would be slowly shrinking. Thinking sustainability of water etc. This would not be that hard to accomplish. A great example for the rest of the world.

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:23 am 



paulo,
In a world of shrinking workers they would become much more valuable. They would also not have that downward pressure you mentioned. Society will spend money on what they think is important and fringe business will be eliminated because labor would be to high. This would be a much healthier economy instead of a bubble economy IMO.

Davy on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:33 am 



Boat, I did not make my comment based upon the good or bad of immigration. I made the comment on the shallow solution orientation of your previous comment. You are well aware of my stance on population.

I am ridiculing your lame solution to intractable macro predicaments of limits of growth, deflation, overpopulation, and overconsumption. The coming economic descent will do allot to end large scale immigration both those immigrating and those in country who will stop the large scale immigration.

Tell me this Boater, if you already have internally displaced camps do you think immigration will be tolerated? How’s that for a corn bitch slapping.

Plantagenet on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 12:09 pm 



paulo1 is exactly right. The migration crisis in Europe is just the beginning. Hungary estimates as many as 35 million economic refugees may stream into Europe over the next few years. And here is the US any war or economic collapse in a Latin American country could send millions and tens of million of economic immigrants streaming into the USA.

Do your preps.

penury on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 12:20 pm 



Simple,cheap living is possible, as the author states, however where does he think these great bargains come from? Is there a factory in his neighborhood which manufactures goods for yard sales ad thrift stores? As for his refusal to live a profligate life style, well emigration is the reverse of immigration and I suspect he would be welcome in most African countries. In other words what worked for Thoreau will not work for Chicago

cottager on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 1:40 pm 



Find nice community, build farm house by yourself from anything you can find a plot you can afford, grow your own food using permaculture, means mostly scythe. I have a flat close to town and trying to build doomsted 20 miles away, think about it.

Billy on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 1:52 pm 



i think this guy isn’t married.

JuanP on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 2:12 pm 



Boat “Humans love to blame others and take no responsibility.” ” Just stop immigration. Legal and illegal. Simple enough.”

You are a funny guy, boat! On one paragraph you boast about how humans like to blame others and then on the next paragraph you blame immigrants? Cognitive dissonance, some? You are full of shit, man. FULL OF IT!

JuanP on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 2:31 pm 



Boat “Just jail any employer that hires illegal immigrants. The jobs would dry up quick. The US is in a different place today from decades past.”

Your lack of understanding is astounding, moron! The problem is global and no place on Earth will be spared. I understand where you are coming from, but you just don’t get. I am going to explain something to you.

My country, Uruguay, has a lower population level today than it had when I was born, 45 years ago. That is thanks to two facts, a low fertility rate and emigration. Uruguay is also in a different place than it was decades ago, just like the USA and the rest of the world, but it has 0% to do with immigration. The reasons are overpopulation, climate change, resource depletion, environmental degradation, and pollution.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 3:21 pm 



Boat, so you can read a graph and shoehorn the numbers into your hopes, but do you really understand universal laws?

If we were at or nearing peak anything would we

A – Have less production/extraction?

or

B – the most we have ever seen?

It was finalization that enabled the physical growth to extend farther than it would have. Much legislation had to been changed and cheating ignored. More to come, but we are approaching the physical limits to growth. Next we will see environmental regulation rolled back or ignored and/or go unpunished. More apes will be thrown under the bus, jailed or whatever it takes to keep going. Growth will continue for a little while longer but for an ever shrinking number of people. I contend that the environmental consequences alone will break the system. More of that exponential growth function that you ignore. Except maybe when looking at your portfolio. That’s when it counts eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsd1IT7ySfE

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 6:54 pm 



apeman. your so full of crap. On the one hand regulations will be ignored or done away with or more strictly enforced. Trying somehow with your twisted logic that either choice would be inherently wrong or bad.

You and the doomers can claim all you know the limits of growth but you really have no clue. Every year ticks by and all you can say is well we must be one year closer to mayham because it’s worse now.

The oil argument your trying to twist now is this the most production we have ever seen. Well duh and it will keep increasing. The Iraq war, Iran sanctions, Libya war Syria, Nigeria etc Just think if this oil was accessed for the last 7 years. US fracking might have never happened because prices wouldn’t have gone so high.
Lastly battling climate change is a political one where the world has to work together. Like no immigration for starters, taxing babies and a stiff carbon tax. Showing a fire jumping a road or a house burn in a Forrest ain’t gonna cut it.

GregT on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:06 pm 



Actually Boat,

Apnea is spot on. It is you that doesn’t get it, at all. Even after many of us here have posted link, after link, after link. You continue to ignore reality. Ignore it at your own peril.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:24 pm 



Boat, you are a completely ignorant fuck wad who has cobbled together a handful of cherry picked reinforcing facts. You clearly have no concept of whole systems thinking when it comes to ape civilization or the earth system or any system.

The so called battle for climate change was lost decades ago. It’s not a fucking switch that you can just flip. There is a gargantuan amount of inertia in the system and too many positive feedback have already been triggered. If you actually followed the science, you would know that. The effects we are feeling right now are from emissions from decades ago – there is a lag time. Apes could go carbon neutral tomorrow and it would not change a fucking thing. The pin on the grenade has been pulled and thrown away and we are just waiting for the explosion. You may miss the very worst of the shrapnel but your kids and grandkids are going to get torn apart. In addition you can throw in ocean acidification (more emissions the worse it gets)and the well underway 6th mass extinction. You understand none of these things nor their implications. Fracking, The Fed, Iranian and Iraqi oil, all TPTB and all the militaries in the world are nothing but bugs compared to the forces that have been unleashed. And you can fuck off with your ain’t gonna cut it comment – I have posted literally hundred of links to real time consequences of AGW – I post them every damn day along with all the data from the instrument records. No models no predictions, just daily disasters that are killing and maiming and destroying people’s homes and business everyday – heatwave, fires, floods, sea level rise, deluges, landslides, drought, water shortages and on and on and on. I have posted many from your own state just in the last few months. Just how far can you shove your head up your ass?

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:27 pm 



GregT,
I see opinions all the time The links you cant read are EIA and IEA. Oh I forgot you were looking at the gist of the message and not the chart LOL. Go look up world gdp, oil. Look at the sloped line going up to the right. Yep that means growth. I know this will be a shocker to you Russian supporters. Their lines ain’t doing so well. But is Russia big enough to make much of a difference in world gdp? Not really.
So forget any one country GregT. You have to use world numbers

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:34 pm 



Kurt Cobb: Money Cannot Manufacture Resources Podcast

http://www.peakprosperity.com/podcast/94455/kurt-cobb-money-cannot-manufacture-resources

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:38 pm 



Neo-Feudal America – Median Wages for Male Employees Down 5% Since 1973

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/09/neo-feudal-america-median-wages-for-male-employees-down-5-since-1973.html?utm_content=buffer2c2ae&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

GregT on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:43 pm 



I was reading the article Boat, which you clearly did not. There is far more going on here than simple lines on a little chart. You have proven without a shadow of a doubt that you do not understand the exponential function, limits to growth, climate science, or how money works. You are either not very smart Boat, you are in a serious state of denial, you have an agenda, or you are trolling for attention. Which one is it Boat, or is it a combination of all four?

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:53 pm 



Study: US puts twice as much trash in landfills than thought

“It turns out that on average Americans toss 2.3 kilograms (five pounds) of trash per person per day into its landfills, according to an analysis of figures from the same study, which is based on actual landfill measurements instead of government estimates”

http://phys.org/news/2015-09-trash-landfills-thought.html

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 7:56 pm 



Oh look boat, here’s the real bottom line. Lot’s of graphs and charts for you to stare at.

Census data shows a record 46.7 million Americans live in poverty. Over 40,000 dollar stores now permeate the United States.

“A record number of Americans are in poverty
The annual Census data did not reveal a broad base recovery. What it did reveal was that we now have a record number of Americans in poverty. 46.7 million Americans live in financial poverty and struggle to get by on a day-to-day basis. What is even more troubling is you have a large number of Americans living in poverty that actually work. Many of these people are stuck in low-wage jobs and are what we consider the working poor.
If you look at the trend, it doesn’t really look like a recovery for many Americans:”

http://www.mybudget360.com/census-poverty-record-number-of-us-dollar-stores/

JuanP on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 8:49 pm 



Boat “I see opinions all the time The links you cant read are EIA and IEA.”

You believe the EIA and IEA at your own peril, moron! I have been reading EIA and IEA regularly for over ten years, just like many others here. I have learnt not to believe in their forecasts of future production because they have always been systematically wrong and full of crap. It is OK to read their reports on the past because they offer useful data, but everything they write about the future is crap. Maybe, if you’d spent a decade or more reading their lies you would understand what the rest of us are trying to tell you.

GregT and Apneaman are unusually smart and well informed and you’d be smart to listen and learn from them.

Makati1 on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 9:59 pm 



The discussion got lost in the argument with the less intelligent here. Too bad. I just ignore idiots and the brainwashed.

Living with less is our future. Either by starting to voluntarily downsize now or being forced to sometime in the near future when it will not be so easy.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:10 pm 



Here’s a happy scene from Europe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo1V2dvDMks

Boat on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:20 pm 



Juan,
You are just one of the many sheepeople you like to complain about being led by mainstream media. You cant think for yourself. Your just led by some doomers who cant tell growth from recession. Production gains from losing production. The EIA even explains their methodology as to when they do their updates and that short term reporting are estimates. Your boys are certainly not well informed. Even if they know they are wrong they won’t concede the point They would rather cuss and call me names. LOL

That is Mak’s attitude exactly”the discussion got lost in the argument”
When you doomers say the world is in recession and it is not. That is just a fact compared to how we measure recessions for decades. A recession is 3 qters in a row of declining GDP. Not how many fires there are, how many wars are being fought, how many people are in poverty etc. In real life you can’t just throw words around that are wrong and not get challenged. You can gang up on me like Columbus and think I will go off the edge of the earth. I will take my chances.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:35 pm 



So, boat you see no connection between 47 million Americans, out of 335 million, living in poverty and the overall health of the economy? All that matters is the government GDP stats? If they say everything is awesome, well then for fuck sakes everything is awesome. That is the only metric that counts and nothing else matters……la la la la I’m not listening to anything else.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:38 pm 



Boat, is the record breaking amount of money spent on fighting the record breaking number of fires this year count towards the GDP?

GregT on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:44 pm 



Boat,

You’re. Not Your. You’re just led by some doomers who cant tell growth from recession.

And just a quick FYI. There is no generally agreed upon definition of recession. The following definition is from Wikipedia:

“In economics, a recession is a business cycle contraction. It is a general slowdown in economic activity.[1][2] Macroeconomic indicators such as GDP (gross domestic product), investment spending, capacity utilization, household income, business profits, and inflation fall, while bankruptcies and the unemployment rate rise.

Recessions generally occur when there is a widespread drop in spending (an adverse demand shock). This may be triggered by various events, such as a financial crisis, an external trade shock, an adverse supply shock or the bursting of an economic bubble. Governments usually respond to recessions by adopting expansionary macroeconomic policies, such as increasing money supply, increasing government spending and decreasing taxation.” Or lowering interest rates. (My addition)

Definition

In a 1975 New York Times article, economic statistician Julius Shiskin suggested several rules of thumb for defining a recession, one of which was two down consecutive quarters of GDP.[3] In time, the other rules of thumb were forgotten. Some economists prefer a definition of a 1.5-2 percentage points rise in unemployment within 12 months.[4]

“In the United States, the Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER) is generally seen as the authority for dating US recessions. The NBER defines an economic recession as: “a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales.”[5] Almost universally, academics, economists, policy makers, and businesses defer to the determination by the NBER for the precise dating of a recession’s onset and end.”

“In the United Kingdom, recessions are generally defined as two consecutive quarters of negative economic growth, as measured by the seasonal adjusted quarter-on-quarter figures for real GDP.[6][7] The exact same recession definition applies for all member states of the European Union.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession

Never let niggling little facts get in the way when you can just make shit up, right Boat.

apneaman on Mon, 21st Sep 2015 10:46 pm 



I guess those thousands of people who lost their homes, people who now have to stay in motels and eat at restaurants and rebuild from scratch counts towards the GDP eh? AGW enhanced fire season is good fer da GDP. Boat be happy.

California Wildfires Destroy Almost 1,100 Homes

http://www.ibtimes.com/california-wildfires-destroy-almost-1100-homes-2105035

GregT on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 12:24 am 



Boat,

“In real life you can’t just throw words around that are wrong and not get challenged.”

Which has happened to you here repeatedly, and you still don’t get it. You are living in a world of denial Boat, and most of what you have typed here, is just plain wrong. The guys here that you constantly call out are only interested in one thing Boat. The truth. No matter whether it happens to be comfortable or not.

Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 1:58 am 



Things that add to the GDP:
Divorce
Deaths
Accidents
Fires
Explosions
Diseases
Obesity
Births
Pollution (sickness/death)
Waste of everything
etc.

Kenz300 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 8:02 am 



Reduce your transportation costs.

Buy and use a bicycle.

Walking, bicycles and mass transit are the most cost effective way to travel.

Boat on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 9:45 am 



This is nice, you all made up a list of part of what makes up GDP. And world GDP is growing. And world GDP has been measured this way for a long time. They do this so they can compare years. Kind of like apples to apples. You will figure it out some day.

So nope boys, you cant subtract all that stuff that is negative and say the world economy is collapsing. We’ll you will but you really can’t. Maybe you will get it.

Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 9:56 am 



Sorry Boat, but the way GDP is calculated has changed constantly and more so lately. You need to get an education upgrade soon.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/03/economist-explains-26

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/us-economy-grow-3-under-new-gdp-calculation

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1368001-u-s-governments-new-way-of-calculating-gdp

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/30/changes-in-gdp-measurement-create-growth-out-of-thin-air/

Need more?

zoidberg on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 10:29 am 



Good for him. Nobody to care for just himself and friend subsidized housing. As well as a nice government cheque. What a pioneer. Gag.

daddio7 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 12:20 pm 



For those of us who paid several hundred thousand into the SS system a $2000 check is not a handout. If he only gets $419 a month he didn’t pay much in.

How can someone complain about America’s profligate spending and then decry 42 million in poverty. If we stop using fossil fuels all 300 million of us would be in poverty.

zoidberg on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 12:23 pm 



Right ss is so full of contributions is why it’s sagging under its own weight. Baby boomers didnt even pay enough for themselves I believe its the current working class paying the benefits now which is not the way it was supposed to work. It is massively underfunded for the for seeable future now, no?

GregT on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 12:51 pm 



@ Boat,

Proven completely wrong, one more time. You still don’t get it Boat. You are living in a complete state of denial.

daddio7 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 1:56 pm 



I just reread this post, he says he has no computer. Wait, what? He uses modern stuff. He just isn’t paying for it. He’s a leach!

apneaman on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 2:34 pm 



Boaty don’t be a hero

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0lKmznjgfQ

Boat on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 4:48 pm 



Mak,
I read your links that I could and you taught me something. Thanks. I will do a little research on that subject. This is why I come here, to learn on occasion.

apneaman on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 4:55 pm 



You taught yourself Boat.

GregT on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 8:05 pm 



Boat,

We all come here to learn. Stick around for long enough and be honest with yourself, and you’ll end up just like the rest of us.

I used to be much like you Boat, just for the record, that’s why I find you to be so frustrating.

G1 on Tue, 22nd Sep 2015 9:49 pm 



I admire Don. I don’t go as quite as far as he does but my wife and I are very conservative in our resources usage and we had one child…as a choice, to help support this effort.

Immigration is a symptom of the problem of overpopulation, and it will only get worse as climate change and other resource issues like clean water shortage increase. As the US military has repeatedly been saying – climate change is increasing out of control migration, and therefore mass social destabilization of the planet.

I laugh/cry pretty hard when I hear people say we must keep our population levels up to “support us in our old age”. This is a ponzi scheme and a merry go round….if we don’t keep having more and more babies at the bottom of the ponzi population pyrimid, we won’t be able to “maintain our consumer society”.

I say, the countries who are stabilizing and reducing their populations ….are biting the bullet now rather than continuing to multiply and be in crash mode later!