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Page added on October 17, 2012
Push is on to Fuel Vehicles with Natural Gas
A natural gas boom in Pennsylvania is not only helping to heat homes, but it can also help fuel cars and trucks!
The push is on to get companies to switch to natural gas vehicles and to build fueling stations.
CNG stands for compressed natural gas. These days, it’s cheaper than gasoline you use in whatever you drive, and the hope is to make CNG the fuel of the future for cars and trucks in Pennsylvania.
Marc Schefsky of Genetti Hotel and Suites showed off the company’s new shuttle van outside the natural gas vehicle seminar at Penn College.
In the tank of that van is compressed natural gas, or CNG, and Schefsky said it’s saving the hotel on fuel costs, but for now, there’s nowhere close by to gas up.
“Right now we’re taking it to state college. We’re going to have to trailer it to state college next week we hope one more time,” said Schefsky.
Local companies and the state hope to change all that with incentives for converting fleets to CNG, from hotel shuttle vans to city transit buses.
Newswatch 16 got a look at the first natural gas fueled bus in the river valley transit’s fleet in the city of the Williamsport. It’s the first of many as they transition to natural gas. They’re going to install a CNG station to fuel natural gas vehicles for the whole region.
“It gets us in CNG market, public can fuel at our facility. It gets them benefitting from Marcellus Shale, not only domestic product, but a commonwealth product, local product,” said Kevin Kilpatrick of River Valley Transit.
Over the next decade, officials at River Valley Transit said they plan to replace all 30 buses with natural gas fueled buses, and by this time next year, the CNG station should be online at the facility along West Third Street and open to the public to use like any other gas station.
The same goes for the Wayne Township Landfill in Clinton County. Plans are in the works to convert more than a dozen vehicles to CNG, and landfill general manager Jay Alexander promises a fueling station should be open and ready for business.
“The design set up is card swipe, credit card or fleet fueling card, so anybody will be able to use it. You won’t have to be connected to us,” said Alexander.
Of course, the abundance of natural gas in the Marcellus Shale is the driving force behind the effort to fuel vehicles with CNG.
You know what you’re paying for, regular unleaded gas. The natural gas equivalent in State College is $2.16.
To find out more about the natural gas vehicle incentives click here.
21 Comments on "Push is on to Fuel Vehicles with Natural Gas"
James on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 12:02 am
O.K. as we start to use natural gas for auto/truck fuel, the reserve will quickly diminish. Natural gas wells have a nasty habit of just quitting without warning, fracking or not. You will use 2-3 times the natural gas to equal a gallon of gasoline. So, as we use more NG, we use up what we would normally use to heat our homes, and this will cause an increase in the cost of NG. Remember the 1970s when people froze in their homes when the price of NG skyrocketed? Also, electric generating plants are switching over to NG as well. So, all of these things that use NG will cause the NG supply to dwindle quickly.
Natgas on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 12:45 am
Excellent move.
Countries like Pakistan, Iran, Argentina, Brazil, India and China has more than 1,000,000 NGVs and USA has only 112,000 and its high time every truck, bus and taxi is converted to LNG/CNG.
James A. Hellams on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 1:01 am
This could be a very interesting logistics problem.
The standard thermal content of one cubic foot of gas (measured in US units) is approximately 1,000 BTUs. The thermal content of a gallon of gas (regular grade) is more than 100,000 BTUs, if I am not mistaken. Thus, for EVERY gallon of natural gas equivalent to gasoline, you would need MORE THAN 100 cubic feet of natural gas.
To fill a standard size fuel tank (20 gallons) with NG equivalent, you would need more than 2,000 cubic feet of NG.
From what I understand about diesel fuel, a typical gallon of diesel fuel has 136,000 BTUs of energy. The natural gas equivalent needed for a gallon of diesel fuel would be 136 cubic feet. Considering that a long-haul truck may have an onboard fuel capacity running into the hundreds of gallons of diesel fuel; you can easily determine the number of of cubic feet of NG equivalent to equal the NG amount required. For example, assuming a long-haul truck has 200 gallons of diesel fuel; you would need 27,200 cubic feet of NG equivalent.
Where are you going to get the enormous storage tanks needed to store so much NG? How are you going to find enough room for the tanks in the vehicles? Where are you going to find pumping equipment to pump up the tanks with all that NG in the same time it takes to fill a tank with gasoline? Where are you going to put all those high-capacity NG pipelines needed for the NG flow demands? Where are you going to find enough wells to produce the gargantuan supplies of NG needed? How long will it be, before the NG wells are depleted and no more NG can be produced?
DMyers on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 1:11 am
James is right on. He touches on the two most critical issues: the historical unreliability of natural gas and its inferior energy density.
The illusion of abundance will drive a squandering frenzy into an empty hole. It won’t be the first time, but it may be the last.
BillT on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 1:11 am
NG is used here in the Philippines in Manila’s taxis and buses. They use small tanks that can be replaced quickly at most gas stations. But. Their range is limited and would not be very practical for long trips. And you get the chance of getting a faulty tank and having an explosion or at least a leak that cuts your mileage.
Sure! Switch over and then NG will escalate in price up to the level of gasoline. And when you new NG car is worn out, the NG will all be gone and you will be walking.
DC on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 1:28 am
Only an amerikan would shocked to learn NG can run vehicles. Its been done in Asia, Europe, Canada for years. The tank size is not a game-breaker as James suggests, the normal practice for both Propane and NG systems is to put them in trunk or bed of a truck. That said, any widespread push to ‘NG’ everything would simply cause demand for NG to explode to levels production simply couldn’t keep up with. Then, the price would reach parity with gaz-o-line rather quickly, and the costs of converting (yes gas-burners can be converted to NG burners rather easily), would never be recovered. Nor would the air be much cleaner, since NG\Propane vehicles still pollute. Maybe not so badly as diesel or gas does, but the difference is one of degrees, not of a kind.
IoW, very little would change, and like BillT says, you’re all going to be walking one day anyway. Buy yourself a bike and get used to moving short-to medium distances under your own power, now, as opposed to thinking NG will be your savior. Better for you, and save a ton of money…
Natgas on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 2:21 am
They dont fill the natgas as such, they compress it and fill it.
Look at this stats guys, there are 16.4 million CNG powered vehicles worldwide.
http://www.ngvjournal.com/en/statistics/item/911-worldwide-ngv-statistics
Many Americans are thinking that gasoline and diesel are the only 2 transport fuels. Or the oil company guys are spreading some false info here.
Natgas wont get exhausted soon, its the oil that is getting exhausted and thats why u r paying $4 /gallon of gas.
The diesel prices are still increasing.
Thats why the oil companies are converting their drilling machines to run on natgas.
Mike999 on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 2:40 am
The sloppy fracking in PA is creating jobs, in Cancer Centers. It’s polluting our waters, and destroying our forest.
Only an Idiot would frack.
BillT on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 3:56 am
16.4 million NG vehicles world wide.
The number of cars alone world wide passes 1 billion. So…
NG vehicles are 1.6% of the total. Maybe in what, 80 years, the fleet could be all NG, but by then all dribbles of NG will be history by about 60 years.
cottager on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 6:40 am
Em, wait, there is something wrong with this statistics and in some posts about current usage of natural gas. 16,4 million vehicles are running not on CNG, but on LPG, which they producing from oil as byproduct. CNG vehicles are a bit more rare, but then I found now – there are 14,8 millions CNG vehicles/versus 16,4 millions of LPG vehicles.
Arthur on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 8:49 am
Here some data to support the discussion:
http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2012/10/17/global-gas-reserves/
The amount available is indeed gigantic. It will come at the expense of a destroyed, poisoned planet.
Arthur on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 9:03 am
In 2010 global NG consumption was 3.2T m3.
Reserves 1720 T m3.
That’s 500 years.
Expect Antarctica to become a tropical resort, destination of choice for a new kind of refugee: the thermal refugee.
James A. Hellams on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 9:05 am
Another factor you are not considering, is that oil will still be required; even when a vehicle is converted to CNG of LPG.
If I am not mistaken, CNG and LPG do not possess any lubricating properties; and can not be used to lubricate an engine and other parts of the vehicle. You still will need an oil supply for this purpose.
Also, oil is required for the creation of the plastics used in the manufacturing of the vehicle.
How about the roadways? Can CNG or LPG be used to replace all the oil needed for the making of the asphalt needed for all the roadways and streets?
BillT on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 9:57 am
James…you are correct. None of these articles even begin to touch on reality, only dreams. And how much LPG/CNG would it take to tear up all of the oil/asphalt roads in the world and replace them with concrete and steel? Or to make the cars in the first place, starting in the mines and ores?
there is over 1 million miles of paved roads in the US alone and 214 million cars. Dream on all you petroholics…lol.
Natgas on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 2:31 pm
I pasted the link which is in this page.
There are 16.4 million CNG powered vehicles (actual) and the estimate is 24 million.
LPG vehicles population is 22.8 million.
http://www.worldlpgas.com/autogas/the-autogas-market
And there are also flex fuel vehicles
whose population stands @ 27 million vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle
Kenz300 on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 4:12 pm
Choice at the pump….
Competition for the oil monopoly….
CNG, LNG, electric, flex-fuel and hybrid vehicles all need to be part of the mix.
Others on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 4:41 pm
After the Oil is replaced in power generation and space heating, now its being replaced in petrochemicals by natgas since all are hydrocarbons.
Many plastics use ethylene as raw material and that comes from methane / methanol which are main products of natgas.
Finally the Oil is also getting replaced in transport by alternatives like LNG, CNG, LPG, Biofuels, Electricity.
Shipping is also moving towards LNG
http://www.nortrade.com/sectors/articles/environmental-shipping-focuses-on-lng-technology/
GregT on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 5:00 pm
Natural gas will only allow us to continue down the same path that we are on a little longer.
The destination will be the same.
James A. Hellams on Thu, 18th Oct 2012 11:17 pm
So far, all the talk has been about using NG in cars and trucks. However, not one word has been mentioned about aviation.
Aviation will not survive without oil.
Because aviation is the least energy efficient means of transportation; the fuel demands for airliners will be MUCH greater than all other modes of transportation.
How are you ever going to run airliners on any thing other than oil based aviation fuel?
Because of the inherent lack of energy efficiency; airliners will have to use the fuel that has the greatest thermal content, to pack enough energy in the smallest space. ONLY oil based fuel will ever have the ability to pack the energy into the smallest space, that the airlines need.
You will not be able to store enough NG aboard an airliner, to compensate for the amount of energy that an airliner requires to get it off the ground, and keep it in the air.
SOS on Fri, 19th Oct 2012 1:10 am
We have endless supplies and some tactical problems. From compression (LNG) to lubrication (additives) it is all doable and is being done. It doesnt do much for the failed “electric” car. The most efficient technology will almost always win out and the earth is indeed round, the computer is the coming thing and who needs the telephone when I can just walk across the street and talk to them?
There are no demons under the bed. We have all the energy we need if we have the political will to get it and the wealth it represents. The politics of shortage are dimwitted, some have said. I say we need orderly development of our more than ample resources.
DMyers on Fri, 19th Oct 2012 3:01 am
SOS,
First of all, people I call on the telephone are called on the telephone because they are not right across the street. If they were right across the street, I would walk across and talk to them, but they’re not. What does that have to do with anything?
The computer is not the coming thing, unless you’re referring to computer chips implanted in everyone to control them like domestic animals. The computer was the coming thing in 1995. If you’re implying we can replace oil with computer technology, give us the details on how that works.
If you can’t find the demons under the bed, study a modern drone, especially one that has been used to kill innocent civilians in a “precision strike.”