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Page added on September 5, 2017

Oil fading as an energy source because of electric vehicles

The global demand for oil will peak within the next five years, driven largely by the increased market presence of electric vehicles, a top energy consultancy said.

DNV GL, a Norwegian company providing risk management advice, said in an energy transition outlook that global demand for energy in general will level off by 2030 and then move lower as efficiency improves. For oil, demand peaks in 2022 because of the rise in the use of electric vehicles, though energy trends might not be enough to stave off the impacts of climate change.

“Until 2050, the electricity share of energy demand will grow from 18 percent to 40 percent yet this transformation is not happening fast enough,” Ditlev Engel, the CEO at DNV GL, said in a statement. “Speeding up the acceleration of electrifying sectors like heat and transport will be one vital measure to put the brakes on global warming.”

Swedish automaker Volvo said this year it was marking an end to a vehicle line powered solely by the internal combustion engine. Tesla said in its second quarter release that orders for two of its electric vehicle lines were up 15 percent in July when compared with the quarterly average.

Two million electric vehicles were on the road globally last year, with most of those in the U.S., European and Chinese markets.

Using the pace of transition from horse-drawn carriages to fuel-powered vehicles in the 20th century as a benchmark to measure growth, the International Monetary Fund said motor vehicles could vanish from markets in advanced economies within the next 20 years. For the shift in vehicles themselves, the IMF said dramatic retooling may be necessary for the industry.

Economists at the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries revised their forecast for global oil demand for 2018 higher by 1.28 million barrels per day to 97.7 million barrels per day. Total oil demand for 2017 is expected to be 96.49 million bpd and most of the demand growth next year comes from developing countries.

DNV GL said it’s gas, however, that’s on pace to become the largest single source of energy.

“Major oil companies intend to increase the share of gas in their reserves, and DNV GL expect an accelerated shift by 2022 as they decarbonize business portfolios,” the consultant group’s report read.

UPI

66 Comments on "Oil fading as an energy source because of electric vehicles"

Go Speed Racer on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 3:17 pm

LOL

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 3:36 pm

Published the link earlier, but added some additional info after some research into the energy required to produce a ton of steel from an end-of-life offshore wind tower:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/eroi-of-offshore-wind-power-continued/

I took the data from the recently commissioned Gemini offshore wind farm in the Netherlands and took into account the energy cost of iron ore transport from Australia to Europe (worst case) and next converting this iron ore in a standard steel mill to plate material from which the tower is produced:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/08/20/sif-the-wind-tower-company/

In that situation I arrive at an EROI of 54 (ignoring energy cost for installation, maintenance and storage).

The real kicker however is what happens if that wind tower arrives at end-of-economic-life status. The tower needs to be removed from the seabed…

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/05/14/nuon-dismantles-offshore-wind-farm-in-the-netherlands/

…(which is not too difficult) and brought to the smelter. The journey over sea to say the steel mill in IJmuiden/Holland is merely 100-500 km, rather than 20,000 km from Australia. But here it comes: the energy required to produce 1 ton of steel in an arc furnace is ten times lower than the energy cost of producing 1 ton of steel from ore!

In other words, the energy input to produce a “second generation” wind turbine is 10 times lower than the one produced from ore, which in creases the EROI from 50-60 to 500-600!

To cheap to meter.

Electricity virtually for free, generation after generation. It is even cheaper than hydro power. No form of energy is cheaper than offshore wind power. Once the intellectual slow lane in the energy world and politics will pick this up, oil will be out of business in no time.

Nobody wants to be a robber of his own wallet.

Once you have imported say 1500 ton iron ore for a wind turbine, you have the iron for all eternity, not just for 30 years (“first generation”).

The Next “Saudi-Arabia” (of electricity)? Holland, Denmark, Britain, Germany. Everywhere where you can plant a monopile in the sea bed, that is max. 30 m water depth.

North Sea: 200,000 km2
Irish Sea + Baltic: 400,000 km2

MASTERMIND on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 4:05 pm

Just wait until we experience a 10% or 20% drop in oil supplies. In a few years or sooner we certainly will. When it hits the economic and social damage will be catastrophic The end of Western Civilization, from China to Europe, to the US, will not occur when oil runs out. The economic and social chaos will occur when supplies are merely reduced sufficiently.

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 4:13 pm

Yeah, yeah and we are all going to die. I know the collapse routine by now.

The EU energy policy (“getting rid of fossil by 2050”) is designed to gradually write off old fossil fuel power stations and replace them with renewable energy sources in an economic fashion.

However the transition can be done much faster, like in 12 years. But this requires an extraordinary effort, like a war effort.

But it can be done, if necessary:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/03/24/the-netherlands-fossil-free-in-2030/

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/01/03/netherlands-sustainable-by-2030/

Apneaman on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 4:36 pm

Clog, you’re missing a big step. One that is happening and growing daily. Suffering. Untold amounts of suffering before the release of death. There will be more suffering coming up tat all of previous human history combined. Sorry Fuck-O,but most of the world is not living in a privileged protected bubble like you. You can thank the Dutch realists for that. What do they do with delusional climate denier, history denier tards like you? Do you get extra on your government cheques each month – tard supplement? The only reason you are so spoiled and protected is because the people who run you’re country are NOT deniers and are responsible and have went to great lengths to protect the country and people from the ravages of AGW. That must really chap your ass eh? Knowing you are still alive and protected because you live in the most progressive country in the world where they make many policy decision for the greater good and to protect the citizens. If you had American leadership you would either be dead or living on cat food and Raman noodles.

Collapse is a process, not an event, and one that is all too obviously well underway.

‘We don’t have anything’: landlords demand rent on flooded Houston homes Displaced families say they are struggling to pay rent on damaged dwellings, as an acute housing crisis grips south-east Texas after Hurricane Harvey

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/sep/04/hurricane-harvey-landlords-demand-rent-for-flooded-homes

Humanity is getting crushed by their own corrupted, dysfunctional and antiquated ideologies and social systems and it’s happening while planetary physics and chemistry is just staring to lay the boots to the puny, terrified, helpless humans. Industrial civilization will be lucky to be limping along in another decade. It’s over except for the wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 4:45 pm

Houston rain-bombed is peanuts compared to American bombs on all German and Japanese cities.

On-topic again:

Mercedes-Benz autonomous automotive vision for 2030:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX-lq6tFoMw

https://cleantechnica.com/2017/09/04/new-smart-concept-car-self-drives-personalised-mobility/

Anonymouse1 on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 4:59 pm

LoL indeed GSR.

rockman on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:00 pm

New definition of “fading oil demand” = 2 million total EV’s on the road last year vs the 1.2 BILLION ICE’s on the road + the 84 MILLION new ICE’s purchased last year.

We can change equation eventually but it will take decades. In the meantime using terms like fading is absurd.

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:03 pm

Oil “fading away” maybe a little over-dramatic, but ever more voices “warn” of immanent peak-oil demand in a couple of years.

Voices like Goldman-Sachs:

http://www.businessinsider.com/goldman-sachs-on-peak-oil-2017-7?international=true&r=US&IR=T

Count my modest self in as well.lol

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:10 pm

Projected growth sales e-vehicles:

23 million/year in 2025.

That could certainly cause peak oil demand by 2023, provided of course that renewable energy capacity grows accordingly.

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:10 pm

Oops:

https://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2017/8/5/37628986-15019383433604047_origin.jpg

Anonymouse1 on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:19 pm

See, even narrativeman has his occasional moments when he puts his hokey texASS narratives and oily homilies aside and glimpses reality. You could learn from the example he is setting cloggen-fraud, rare and limited as it is.

Even if the number of oil-powered mobile trash-cans being produced fell to zero, the oil cartel would still be in business, and would keep on doing very well. Not one EV, battery or any of its sub-components will leave an assembly line without oil, ahem, paving the way. And speaking of paving, oil will still pave the roads EVs require. And oil will build and maintain all the other related infrastructure EVs require.

I suggest you move to car-free kibbutz cloggen-stein, or one where they only allow golf-carts. That way you can drive in circles all day long muttering to yourself that how the all-EV future(tm) has finally arrived.

Apneaman on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:22 pm

clog, but unlike Germany and Japan only 1/2 the citizens of Houston deserved it.

Sadly for Houston and the thousands of Houston to come there will be no Marshall plan to rebuild, nor is there any hope of surrender, unconditional or otherwise. The enemy is like nothing you can imagine. The laws of physics, chemistry & biology do not feel and cannot be negotiated with.

There a forces in play that you and most of the other humans simply cannot comprehend.

Powerful Stuff

Hurricane Irma has become so strong it’s showing up on seismometers used to measure earthquakes

Florida, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands have declared states of emergency

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/irma-hurricane-strength-category-earthquake-measurement-seismometer-a7931286.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow-e4QQBKoY

Outcast_Searcher on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:25 pm

This headline might make sense in 1 to 3 decades, when EV’s have proven they’ll work well and are selling in substantial and growing numbers.

Today, it’s only accurate to say greens hope that oil use will fade due to EV’s. After all, global consumption of oil is growing every year, as new ICE’s outnumber new EV’s by way over 50 to one.

nathing@hotmail.fr on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:31 pm

“Oil fading as an energy source because of electric vehicles”

Cloggie : Electric vehicules are basically coal and gas vehicules since electricity is made from that. Add to the equation the lithium which will be depleted faster than Ghawar and you have more than enough to put your fairy tale up your ass.

Cloggie on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 5:45 pm

clog, but unlike Germany and Japan only 1/2 the citizens of Houston deserved it.

Nobody deserves to be a involuntary member of the US empire and next get its population replaced by third worlders, just because your tribes gets a hard-on from that.

Houston is a small sign of things to come. It is going to be a brutal operation, shifting a large part of the US from yours into our hands:

https://www.counter-currents.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/pbm_globe_pf.jpg

Electric vehicules are basically coal and gas vehicules since electricity is made from that.

Ever heard of wind turbines and solar panels?

Boat on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 6:12 pm

Weird all the concern with Houston when floods in Asia killed 120 thousand. Do ya’ll google or just follow MSM and peakoil.com. Remember the idea that developed countries will handle climate events better than 3rd world countries. Compare the floods damages.

Boat on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 6:21 pm

nathing,

Nothing like a coal plant closing to awaken the possibilities and warm the heart.

Boat on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 6:37 pm

yesteryear,

You fk….ng greenie, so you shredded some newspaper and added a layer of planks to the walls. So what you don’t have to sit next to the stove anymore. Who cares you cut one tree less per year.
Your lazy ass chops ice in a tank so your animals can drink. Hell I chop ice in the river only a short mile away and if them animals are thirsty, they will find it.
Back when men were men we didn’t need no tech. All we needed was a river, shack and a stove. Next thing you’ll want water in the house.

Go Speed Racer on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 7:37 pm

Clogster your such an optimist
sometimes. Figuring we can replace oil
Etc.
That’s a lot of optimism considering your
country is being filled to the rafters with
foreign invaders.

Surely pessimism is more realistic?

Go Speed Racer on Tue, 5th Sep 2017 7:40 pm

What we need to figure out, is how to
convert tree trunks directly into oil.

So far, nobody has solved that problem.
Last I heard maybe it would be
genetically engineered bacteria
could do it.

DerHundistlos on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 2:02 am

Whether you agree with him or not, and I do, APE has a wicked sense of humor.

DerHundistlos on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 2:17 am

Woops…..see what happens when one comments before reading everything.

I find APE’s comment about the civilians of Germany and Japan deserving to be bombed into oblivion while the pure as the virgin driven snow residents of the country most responsible for emitting climate change pollutants to be undeserving of extreme weather events illogical.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 2:32 am

Clogster your such an optimist
sometimes. Figuring we can replace oil
Etc.
That’s a lot of optimism considering your
country is being filled to the rafters with
foreign invaders.
Surely pessimism is more realistic?

Running out of oil or being overrun by useless Muslims are two entirely different things.

There is no long term energy problem.

And yes in the long term we have a Muslim problem that needs to be “addressed” as we don’t want to live under Sharia Law, just like we didn’t want to live under communism (the cause of the original mass deportations). But in Europe we are very good with trains. In Holland they even run on wind energy (sort of). So deportations can in the future be carried out in an environmentally friendly fashion. It’s the thought that counts.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 2:35 am

Or criminal.

(((“Ape’s”))) real loyalty is with the US Deep State. According to him everybody deserves to be bombed into oblivion who dares to resist being incorporated into the US empire. Germany, Japan, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, to name just a few.

shortonoil on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 6:15 am

“In that situation I arrive at an EROI of 54 (ignoring energy cost for installation, maintenance and storage).”

Ridiculous, petroleum hasn’t had an ERoEI of 54:1 since 1968! If wind had an EROI of 54:1 it would have replaced oil half a century ago? It is has been these kinds of absurd assumptions, and 10¢ evaluation that has put in the mess we are now in. The oil age is coming to its conclusion, and we have no substitute for it.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:11 am

It has an EROI of 50-60 in the first generation (building a wind tower from iron ore), and an EROI of 500-600 in the “2nd generation” after recycling the steel tower in an arc furnace, which costs 10 times less energy than building a tower from iron ore.

Try to follow the reasoning and ask questions if you do not understand anything. Challenge me!

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/eroi-of-offshore-wind-power-continued/

The reason we didn’t have this 50 years ago is because we didn’t have the wind turbine technology at the time and we didn’t have the technology at the time because we didn’t need the technology at the time, since we had abundant fossil fuel then.

Then came the Report of the Club of Rome in the early seventies and prescient Danes began responding to that report by pioneering in wind energy and now they own the world’s largest wind energy companies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power_in_Denmark

The oil age is coming to its conclusion, and we have no substitute for it.

You are majestically wrong on that one.

Now in 2017, 80% of the new energy production capacity in Europe is renewable energy and there is a reason for that.

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/renewables-largest-share-new-power-in-europe/

America had its preeminent geopolitical position thanks to oil and its early exploitation. I wonder who will be the first in exploiting renewable energy and take over the geopolitical position from the US.

Beats me.lol

Davy on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:23 am

“It has an EROI of 50-60 in the first generation (building a wind tower from iron ore), and an EROI of 500-600 in the “2nd generation” after recycling the steel tower in an arc furnace, which costs 10 times less energy than building a tower from iron ore.”

In your world of theoretical fantasy of yet to be realized parameters and messaged and control applications of variables to suit your exaggerated calculations

Davy on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:26 am

“Now in 2017, 80% of the new energy production capacity in Europe is renewable energy and there is a reason for that.”

How is that 80% much in relation to the total energy generated in Europe?

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:39 am

In your world of theoretical fantasy of yet to be realized parameters and messaged and control applications of variables to suit your exaggerated calculations

But you are not going to set up a counter calculation, right? Too afraid it might question your collapse world view, build up over the last 10-15 years, in which you are so heavily invested.

How is that 80% much in relation to the total energy generated in Europe?

Power stations have a life time of 40-50 years. That would mean that in 40-50 years we will have got rid of most fossil fuel power stations. We could speed up the transition of course to meet the 2050 targets.

It looks like peak oil demand will occur perhaps at 2025 because of e-vehicle penetration.

Davy on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:52 am

“But you are not going to set up a counter calculation”

Antius took care of that already in a realistic balanced comment.
“Antius on Fri, 18th Aug 2017 7:00 am
Cloggie, Your ‘renewable future’ is basically a natural gas future, with some renewables thrown in to reduce the fuel bill. That is the only way renewable energy can be factored into the electricity grid at an affordable cost. Wind could have a capacity factor of about 40% if most of it is installed offshore. Trying to store or curtail renewables rapidly ruins their energy economics. So you are stuck with 40% wind, 60% natural gas. As solar and wind are strong at different times of the year, you might manage a 50-50 mix of renewables and fossil in the electricity grid, so long as all of the fossil is provided by natural gas. If coal is part of the mix, the economics are less favourable because of the higher capital and operating costs of a coal plant and the generally cheaper fuel.”

“That is the reality of life if we go down the renewable energy route. We are tying ourselves into a natural gas economy. By my estimation, if all EU electricity is eventually generated this way and transport and heating are mostly converted to electric, you can reduce the EU CO2 emissions by about half. That’s about as good as it is going to get. To do better than that your options are to either start building nuclear power plants or accept a much higher cost of electric power than we are presently accustomed to, as you start building long term energy storage systems and covering their huge energy losses.”

Davy on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 7:55 am

“How is that 80% in relation to the total energy generated in Europe?”
Numbers cloggie, what is the number of the actual amount? Screw your undefinable 80% snake oil feel good number. I want the 80% number then I want to look at that number in relation to the total energy generated in the Europe.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 8:36 am

Screw your undefinable 80% snake oil feel good number.

I’ll spell it out for you… every year new energy producing capacity is installed in Europe. In 2016 80% of that capacity was renewable. That is not “snake oil”, that is the reality:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/09/new-energy-europe-renewable-sources-2016

Provide me with a source that says something substantial different. You will not find any.

In other words, your own comment is “snake oil”, aimed at “proving” that collapse is inevitable and you are well prepared where the rest of the world dies off.

The alternative, namely that your goat farm (or Manila condo or Canadian jungle refuge) are perhaps a nice hobby but of little relevance in preparing for a “peak oil supply eventuality”, an event that will not occur in your lifetime (or ever), that is psychologically too difficult to swallow.

Back to the numbers:

http://tinyurl.com/ydgb26dz

Yearly electricity consumption EU: 3000 * 10^6 GWh. That is the equivalent of 342 GW average power.

From the Guardian link it can be seen that in 2016, 21 GW renewable capacity was installed. In other words, in 17 years the entire EU electricity fossil fuel electricity generation base could be replaced. Now this is not realistic since these 21 GW are peak watt numbers. Divide them by 2 or so and you get a more realistic number of 34 years, which would match the target date of 2050. However note that the speed of transition is picking up, we are not at maximum speed yet.

On the other hand, electricity is merely a part of energy transition. There is also transport and space heating. Transport in Europe will be 100% electric by 2050. That means that we need more electricity production than the 342 GW we have now. Space heating will come from rigorous isolation, seasonal storage of heat and geothermal energy.

Those are the numbers, nothing snake oil.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 8:43 am

Cloggie, Your ‘renewable future’ is basically a natural gas future, with some renewables thrown in to reduce the fuel bill. That is the only way renewable energy can be factored into the electricity grid at an affordable cost. Wind could have a capacity factor of about 40% if most of it is installed offshore. Trying to store or curtail renewables rapidly ruins their energy economics.

This is complete BS. Antius (correctly) wants to include storage in wind energy EROI calculation, but he tries to talk down that EROI number as much as possible. I have yet to hear his response to my realization that the energy cost of a new wind turbine from recycling the old one in an electric arc furnace (powered by wind energy) is a factor of 10 cheaper in energy terms than building one from iron ore. If he would accept that calculation he would have to acknowledge that the offshore wind energy EROI number discussion is irrelevant if we end up with values in the hundreds range.

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/eroi-of-offshore-wind-power-continued/

Not that I expect he (or you) will cave in. Changing a world view is much too costly and painful.

dave thompson on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 8:44 am

Hey Cloggie;http://www.reuters.com/article/us-energy-outlook-dnvgl/electric-cars-and-renewables-not-enough-to-meet-paris-climate-goal-consultant-idUSKCN1BF2HM?feedType=RSS&feedName=technologyNews&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+reuters/technologyNews+(Reuters+Technology+News)

shortonoil on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 8:59 am

“Try to follow the reasoning and ask questions if you do not understand anything. Challenge me!”

An EROI of 500 to 600:1? You’re off your meds again? That would be equivalent to producing a barrel of oil with 9,800 BTU. You can’t fry an egg with 9,800 BTU! Why don’t you stop spreading your stupid crap? No one believes you; at least no one that still has one brain cell functioning.
How’s that last brain storm of yours working. Irma is not going to hit the US. No once did you say that, but over and over again. A regular expert on everything, and knowable about nothing!

Boat on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 9:02 am

Are we going to have an actual fact based discussion on energy? Clog and Davy are almost there.

Boat on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 9:20 am

clog,

” I have yet to hear his response to my realization that the energy cost of a new wind turbine from recycling the old one in an electric arc furnace (powered by wind energy) is a factor of 10 cheaper in energy terms than building one from iron ore”.

When a windmill is melted you are inferring the cost savings vrs ore go to the manufacture. I am skeptical. They probably get a scrap price. You got links?

Boat on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 9:32 am

shortonoil on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 8:59 am

“How’s that last brain storm of yours working”.

Take a chill pill. You remember your predictions? Oil demand continues to be strong and the glut continues. Your 3 years to madmax is down to 1 year 4 months.

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 9:34 am

When a windmill is melted you are inferring the cost savings vrs ore go to the manufacture. I am skeptical. They probably get a scrap price. You got links?

I was not talking about financial cost (“scrap price” etc.), but the energy cost, comparing building a wind tower from iron ore vs scrap metal. The latter costs ca. 10 times less in energy terms.

Purpose: EROI calculation.

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/09/05/eroi-of-offshore-wind-power-continued/

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 9:37 am

I’m giving you the calculation, a rather short one, but you refuse to address it and instead you bring up meds, brain cells and frying eggs.

Sad.

Outcast_Searcher on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 10:04 am

Cloggie, sadly, you can’t have an adult conversation with Short, if you don’t agree with him.

I’ve tried. It’s ranting and raving and name calling with him, even when someone tries to calmly ask a question or talk about figures or simple math.

When this goes on for months, and add to it his persistent blatant errors re units, calculations, basic understanding of simple math, etc. — he’s not worth wasting time or bandwidth on.

Unless, like evolution and AGW deniers, you just want to keep newer readers from being misled by his nonsense.

Davy on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 11:19 am

“From the Guardian link it can be seen that in 2016, 21 GW renewable capacity was installed. In other words, in 17 years the entire EU electricity fossil fuel electricity generation base could be replaced.”

Was that so hard clog? I just asked for the 21 GW number. Forget snake oil selling me the EU FF electricity generation base will be replaced in 17 years. That is at the moment fantasy. Keep things real and in the here and now.

MASTERMIND on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 11:37 am

American Psychological Association’s Concise Dictionary of Psychology: “An unpleasant reality is ignored, and a realistic interpretation of potentially threatening events is replaced by a benign but inaccurate one.”

MASTERMIND on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 11:44 am

Simon on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 12:43 pm

The following link

https://interestingengineering.com/concrete-gravity-trains-may-solve-energy-storage-problem

Details an interesting way of storing energy, now if I had the money and was gonna get a good return on investment, could anyone tell mw why I should be interested in EROEI ?

Cloggie on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 3:01 pm

Thanks Simon for the interesting link.

Boat on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 3:02 pm

mm,

Ok, I will wait right here until oil supply drops 10 to 20 percent. Got a time frame a little less hazy than a few years or sooner?

Boat on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 3:04 pm

Simon,

Concrete on a track for a battery. Who’d have thunk it.

Anonymouse1 on Wed, 6th Sep 2017 4:37 pm

Who’d have thunk it? Well, not you for starters boatietard. Not if you had 100 years, or 1000, to ahem, ‘thunk’ it over…

Oil fading as an energy source because of electric vehicles

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