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Page added on March 30, 2018
Kunstler: Not So Happy Motoring
It hasn’t been a great month for America’s electric car fantasy. Elon Musk’s Tesla company — the symbolic beating heart of the fantasy — is whirling around the drain with its share price plummeting 22 percent, its bonds downgraded by Moody’s to junk status, a failure to produce its “affordable” ($36,000 — Ha!) Model 3 at commercial scale, a massive recall of earlier S Model sedans for a steering defect, and the spectacular fiery crash in Silicon Valley last week of an X model that may have been operating in automatic mode (the authorities can’t determine that based on what’s left), and which killed the driver.
Oh, and an experimental self-driving Uber car (Volvo brand) ran over and killed a lady crossing the street with her bicycle in Tempe, Arizona, two weeks ago. Don’t blame Elon for that.
There’s a lot to like about electric cars, of course, if, say, you’re a Google executive floating through life in a techno-narcissism bubble, or a Hollywood actor with wooly grandiose notions of saving the planet while simultaneously signaling your wealth and your “green” virtue cred. Teslas supposedly handle beautifully, ride very quietly, have great low-end power, and decent range of over 200 miles. The engine has something like twenty moving parts, is very long-lasting, and is easy to repair or change out if necessary.
Are they actually “green and clean?” Bwaahaaaaa….! Are you kidding? First, there’s the energy embedded in producing the car: mining and smelting the ores, manufacturing the plastics, running the assembly line, etc. That embedded energy amounts to about 22 percent of the energy consumed by the car over a ten-year lifetime. Then there’s the cost of actually powering the car day-by-day. The electricity around the USA is produced mostly by burning coal, natural gas, or by nuclear fission, all of which produce harmful emissions or byproducts. But the illusion that the power just comes out of a plug in the wall (for just pennies a day!) is a powerful one for the credulous public. The cherry-on-top is the fantasy that before much longer all that electric power will come from “renewables,” solar and wind, and we can leave the whole fossil fuel mess behind us. We say that to ourselves as a sort of prayer, and it has exactly that value.
There are at least a couple of other holes in story, big-picture wise. One is that electric mass motoring — switching out the whole liquid fuel fleet for an all-electric fleet — won’t pencil out economically. We probably started the project forty years too late to even be able to test it at scale, because economic events are now moving so quickly in the direction of global austerity that the putative middle-class customer base for electric cars will barely exist in the near future. Americans especially nowadays are so financially stressed that they can’t qualify for car loans — and that is mainly how cars are bought in this land. The industry has strained mightily to bend the rules so that these days it’s even possible to get a seven-year loan for a used car whose collateral value will dissipate long before the loan is paid back. Hard to see how they can take that much further.
The usual answer for that is that you won’t need to own a car because the nation will be served by self-driving electric Uber-style cars-on-demand, which will supposedly require far fewer cars in all. That really doesn’t answer some big questions, such as: how might commuting work in our big metroplex cities? Even if you posit multiple occupancy vehicles, it still represents a whole lot of car trips. Oh, you say, everybody will just work from home. Really? I don’t think so — though I wouldn’t rule out an end to corporate organization of work as we’ve known it, and if that happens, we will be a nation of farmers and artisans again, that is, a World Made By Hand. Also consider, if the car companies only need to make and sell a fraction of the vehicles they sell now, the whole industry will collapse.
Another hole in the story is the universal assumption that the USA must remain a land of mandatory car dependency, hostage to the fiasco of our suburban infrastructure. I understand why we’re attached to it. We spent most of the 20th century building all that shit, and squandered most our wealth on it. It’s comfortably familiar, even if it’s actually a miserable environment for everyday life. But none of those monetary and psychological investments negate the fact that suburbia has outlived its limited and rather perverse usefulness.
We’re so far from having any intelligent public debate about these issues that the events now spooling out will completely blindside the nation.
287 Comments on "Kunstler: Not So Happy Motoring"
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 10:06 am
Davy
Please stop replying to clogg. Why are you constantly taking the bait? Just ignore him and he will go away. He is just a pathetic low life loser. Do you really want to waste your last few years living arguing with someone who is a nazi? Choose wisely
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 10:10 am
Since the 2008 financial crash, the world has witnessed an unprecedented outbreak of social protest in every major continent. Beginning with the birth of the Occupy movement in the US and Western Europe, and the Arab Spring, the eruption of civil unrest has continued to wreak havoc unpredictably from Greece to Ukraine, from China to Thailand, from Brazil to Turkey, and beyond. In some regions, civil unrest has coalesced into the collapse of incumbent governments or even the eruption of a prolonged state of internecine warfare, as is
happening in Iraq-Syria and Ukraine- Crimea.
Increasing public dissatisfaction with government is correlated with continued government difficulties in meeting public expectations. Yet while policymakers and media observers have raced to keep up with events, they have largely missed the deeper causes of this new age of unrest—the end of the age of cheap fossil fuels, and its multiplying consequences for economic growth, industrial food production, and the Earth’s climate stability.
N.M. Ahmed,
Failing States, Collapsing Systems
SpringerBriefs in Energy,
http://www.academia.edu/34816514/Failing_States_Collapsing_Systems_BioPhysical_Triggers_of _Political_Violence_SPRINGER_BRIEFS_IN_ENERGY_?utm_campaign=buffer&utm_content=bufferf1d95&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 10:52 am
BS, nederbraggart, the reason you are such a euro-chauvinist is your image problem. Europe has been a basket case for years. The 20th century is a century of failure. Now, you feel embolden by a few positive and it has gone to your head. You are just a fool bragging and gloating over history revisions and fantasy futures. You lie, distort, and embellish just like Nazi propaganda of old. You are a joke and a fake.
Cloggie on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 11:41 am
The 20th century is a century of failure.
You can say that again.
The 20th century in 1 sentence was the rise of the Jews in the modern world and after they captured those territories where the white race is at its weakest and shallowest (that would be the USA + USSR), the latter combined forces and destroyed the European empires that had dominated the world for 5 centuries, using the services of the corrupt half-American Winston Churchill to get the war in Europe started.
https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Century-Yuri-Slezkine/dp/0691127603/ref=sr_1_1
Now, you feel embolden by a few positive and it has gone to your head.
By 2000 I was as pessimistic as you can get and thought that European civilization was finished, courtesy (((American Empire))).
But now, thank God, China is rapidly rising and so is Islam. Russia has thrown out its Washington-oriented (((oligarchs))) and has defeated the empire in Syria. For the US, Afghanistan an Iraq were total failures as well and Iran and Turkey, if they combine forces, have the potential to divide the Saudi loot between them and get tough with Israel. Vladimir the Great has repeatedly clearly signaled he sees Russia as a European country. Anti-globalist populism is rising in Western Europe and America. Multicult had no chance in Eastern Europe anyway and populism has meanwhile captured the governments of Austria and Italy as well, with more to follow (main prize: AfD in Germany). And the American rising alt-right has signaled it wants a white ethno-state, a development that would entirely play into the hand of Europe-Firsters like yours faithfully.
Meanwhile the (((owners))) of America have signaled white smoke:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-09-27/america-s-new-world-order-is-officially-dead
https://www.cfr.org/article/liberal-world-order-rip
…leaving the question what we are going to do with the defeated NWO.
Simple: dig up our copy of…
https://www.amazon.com/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/1451628978/ref=sr_1_3
…and aim for a post-NWO world order, that will be essentially multi-polar, but with dominating Greater European and Chinese “poles”:
http://tinyurl.com/y8ydx6a9
What is next is waiting for the inevitable: either Washington attempting the flight forward and start WW3 after all (against better knowledge, see links above) or European America wanting to stave off a third world future for itself and instead opt for becoming a post-exceptionalist “normal” European large country, on par with France and Germany and Russia.
Give as a call when you have made up your mind and we can organize a 1776-2.0…
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/11/25/the-second-american-revolution/
…where continental Europe will play a similar decisive role in getting rid of an unwanted tribe, be it the British then or this time some other tribe.
Having said that you should know why I am so upbeat, because I see this scenario as entirely realistic.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:03 pm
nedernazi, you act like your long winded comments that are a personal emotional regurgitate makes them more real and relevant. Do you realize you have posted some of these links hundreds of times. What a friggin loon and an obnoxious commenter. How many more times are you going to post the same shit yet again in the future?
GregT on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:06 pm
Still no considerate, coherent, intelligent rebuttal from Davy. Just more of the usual name calling and childish rhetoric.
Step up to the plate Davy, or STFU already.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:11 pm
Racist Man Gets Jumped At An Applebee’s After Calling A Group Of Black People The N-Word!
http://worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh5SDS0s1Sp14q3Hlv
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:18 pm
Accused Terrorists Were So Extreme They Scared Other Anti-Muslim Bigots
In another recording, the men discussed killing a Garden City landlord who owned a building occupied by Muslims and then raping the landlord’s wife and daughter. All to scare off other landlords from renting to Muslims.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/kansas-terror-plot-militia_us_5abd0e8ce4b03e2a5c7a53c9
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:23 pm
“Still no considerate, coherent, intelligent rebuttal from Davy. Just more of the usual name calling and childish rhetoric.”
Rebuttal to what greggie? If you are going to stalk and prick at least have a proper and complete comment.
GregT on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:30 pm
Playing stupid does not constitute a considerate rebuttal either Davy.
Man up, or STFU.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:33 pm
STFU greggie, spit it out, what needs a rebuttal? Please show a proper comment with details of what your STFU concerns. Otherwise STFU, it is not your business to do empty pricking for your emotional satisfaction.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:40 pm
What would ‘nuclear Armageddon’ look like in your city? This terrifying simulator shows you
https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast
All it will take is four of five USSR Tsar at high alitude and Putin’s reign of terror is over!
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:44 pm
Don’t worry, the US would win a nuclear war with Russia
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/dont-worry-the-us-would-win-a-nuclear-war-with-russia
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:46 pm
Our entire civilization is made up of an interconnected network of interdependencies that create feedback loops that are nearly impossible for the average person to understand.
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
Cloggie on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 12:53 pm
How many more times are you going to post the same shit yet again in the future?
Until I get thoroughly defeated.
I don’t see that happening though.
Anonymouse1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:13 pm
Exactly cloggraham. I don’t see you stopping detailing every topic with your WWII, trump gossip, or poorly veiled denialism anytime soon either.
A feature with you, not a bug.
Of course, it helps that the resident lunatic keeps encouraging your endless trolling and horseshit with his own Hitler fixations.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:14 pm
neder, don’t you think you should be more refined and less hooligan? This is not about victory or defeat it is about the truth and respect. I mean come on this spamming Eurotardism is not very respectable.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:19 pm
Weasel, you just stepped on the toes of a fellow Canadian prick. Your friend greggie is a supporter and enabler of nedernazi’s manifestos and you just slapped him in the face as a denialist.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:21 pm
Clogg about your idea of underground coal
Coal cannot work without crude, crude cannot work without coal, natural gas cannot work without both oil and coal, Shale oil cannot work without any of those, and so on…
Cloggie on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:22 pm
“Don’t worry, the US would win a nuclear war with Russia”
Idiot. Your links ends with:
“Put another way, even if the U.S. won a nuclear war by retaining smaller cities and a large rural population and denying the Russians the same, the social and economic consequences of any nuclear exchange with Russia would be horrendous.”
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:26 pm
Projection of world fossil fuels by country (Mohr, 2015)
Over 900 different regions and subfuel situations were modeled using three URR scenarios of Low, High, and Best Guess. All three scenarios indicate that the consistent strong growth in world fossil fuel production is likely to cease after 2025. The Low and Best Guess scenarios are projected to peak before 2025 and decline thereafter. The High scenario is anticipated to have a strong growth to 2025 before stagnating in production for 50 years and thereafter declining.
https://www.scribd.com/document/375110317/Projection-of-World-Fossil-Fuels-by-Country-Mohr-2015
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 1:27 pm
When peak oil happens and we run out of oil, then the whole anthropogenic climate change thing goes away as well. Unless you’re Naomi Klein and you’d still be hysterical about cows farting…
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 3:43 pm
Our entire civilization is made up of an interconnected network of interdependencies that create feedback loops that are nearly impossible for the average person to understand.
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
Anonymouse1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 4:46 pm
“Playing stupid does not constitute a considerate rebuttal either exceptionalist”.
When you are not playing with a full deck to begin with, playing stupid is about the only card he has left. And it is also worth pointing out, he is hardly ‘playing’ stupid.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 5:15 pm
weasel, you are just stupid period. What is it about you ugly Canadians, all you want to do is stalk and prick. What is it in your national psyche that makes you so ugly and nasty? Weasel, you are a first class example of the very worst of what Canada is breeding these days.
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 6:32 pm
MM, sorry, but those ‘two cups’ can come from Malaysia, South Korea and Indonesia and not the ME, if the SHTF. They would be happy to supply the Ps while the other buyers go doen the drain.
Or the Ps can just stop using oil. It managed for thousands of years without oil. It can again. No place in the Ps is more than 50 miles from the ocean and sailing ships will thrive. Commerce with the rest of Asia is easy. No oil required. No so the Us where even your toilet paper requires oil to exist.
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 6:40 pm
Davy and MM. Perfect examples of why the Us is going down the shitter. Blind to reality. Pretending to be something they are not: Rationally intelligent and mature.
Anonymouse1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 6:51 pm
The exceptionalist\Mushmind. There is a reason why all the ‘two’ of them’s ranting and raving sound so similar. Though, to his limited credit, the exceptionalist has been working hard to try to make it appear as if mushmind is a separate individual. It’s about the only thing he does work ‘hard’ at it. He certainly does not ‘work’ on his supposed doomstead in any capacity.
I am sure you can see mak, the exceptionalists condition has deteriorated markedly even over the last couple of months. He rants and raves pretty much non-stop these days, and is about as unhinged from reality as one can be and still not be institutionalized.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 6:51 pm
Billy 3rd world, sorry your new arrangement means your not saying much lately which is awesome. This new
arrangement also means you are for the most part
irrelevant becuase you can’t carry a thread.
Davy on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 6:54 pm
Wow, weasel, I guess my comment hit home, you are pissed. You pussy, grow some nuts and quit your whining.
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 7:12 pm
Anon, yes, it was obvious when I returned from my PO absence of a month. Just like the decay in the Us is more obvious when you leave it for a year or two and return.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 7:33 pm
Madkat
You think your country could go back to not using oil? Sorry evolution doesn’t go backwards! LOL China has the most people and the worlds largest importer of oil. So I would assume they will be ground zero when the nukes fly! Don’t make us George Bush this button, over nothing! LIVE FREE OR DIE!
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 7:38 pm
Electric car charging in 1905
https://imgur.com/a/J6wQM
And not much has changed since…
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 7:53 pm
Madkat look what one Tsar air burst nuke hitting Beijing would do!
https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast
7 Million oil users gone in a New York minute! LOL
DerHundistlos on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 7:54 pm
While today’s railroad statistics might appear impressive, they pale in comparison to what once existed. At the peak, there existed 430.000 miles of track operated by 127 Class I railroads (1950). As noted above, today America has just 140.000 miles of track operated by a monopoly of 7 Class I railroads.
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:06 pm
Mm: First: “MY country” is the Us, unfortunately. You seem to lose that fact. The Ps is my adopted country.
Second: The Ps is more able to return to “the old ways” than the Us can ever be. Most Filipinos have never left “the old ways”. Self-sufficiency is still prevalent here. Most homes are surrounded by food plants, not lawns. Chickens are common. Not dogs and cats.
Third: Nukes flying will end ALL life everywhere on the planet, so who cares if the Us is pounded by Russia and/or China at that point? The Ps might get some radiation from the Us being nuked, as that is the direction of the prevailing winds after they cross the Pacific, but not from China. You need more education in the way the real world works, Mm. Less Us MAM propaganda.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:10 pm
Madkat
No dogs and cats because they eat them their..Those sick bastards! And the US wont ever be nuked because right when the governments of China and Russia see the damage from a first strike! They will beg for mercy! And you are no longer an America! You sold us out!
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:13 pm
Madkat
Look what one nuke does to your shithole country!
https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/interactive/bomb-blast/?airburst=true&bomb=3&lat=11.723699&location=Philippines&long=124.69451
Too bad nobody wants to nuke a shit hole like the one you live in though…
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:14 pm
Again, MM, I do not care what it will do. You seem to forget that I grew up during the “Cold War” and the times of “Duck and Cover”. Nukes are old stuff to me. Hiroshima happened when I was about one year old. I know they will end everything if they fly.
I accept that as just being another way to die, like car accidents, cancer or heart failure. We all die eventually. I do not fear death. I will not even know it happened. So be it.
onlooker on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:17 pm
I think MM needs to read this about nuclear winters
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_winter
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:18 pm
Mm, I hope you have a dog and are fattening him up for the day you will look at him like he is a prime rib roast. I suggest a Newfoundland. They have about 100 pounds of meat when full grown. Dogs are just another food source many places. Pets are for the wealthy, not the average human. You do not know what you might eat before you die. lol
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:25 pm
Onlooker, MM needs a real education, but he believes himself to be a genius who knows it all. He is lacking in the area of sciences: geology, geography, ecology, biology and meteorology at the least.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:42 pm
Madkat
I post science papers all the time. You have post links to zerohedge and organicprepper! And here are five science papers that prove you will be dead within the next decade!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615
https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper 4_Turner_2014.pdf
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
I think your magic Mormon depends are on to tight!
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 8:43 pm
Who said the USD is doomed? This is why you shouldn’t read sites like Zerohedge
https://imgur.com/a/Pb6uZ
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 9:00 pm
MM, posting and understanding are two different things. And anything that is “reviewed” is old news. My life experience is at least twice yours. My education seems to be much better than yours. And, my IQ seems to be higher also.
You want to tell me what it is like here in the Ps/Asia although I doubt you have ever been out of the Us. Like some others here, you see the world thru the propaganda bullshit you are blasted with 24/7/365. It is NOT the real world.
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 9:06 pm
MM
I am college educated and you were a construction worker. And you think you have a higher IQ then me? And notice I have never said I was smarter than you or anyone on this board. You are constantly bringing up the subject because you are jealous of me. And humans IQ peaks around age 20 and goes into decline. So you are well past peak age.. If someone toilet breaks down they call you! LOL
MASTERMIND on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 9:10 pm
Madkat
You know what your problem is? You assume things based on no evidence. And you deny evidence that refutes what you believe without proof. Like for example that only the US will collapse. Like for example that i dont understand papers that I posted..Our entire civilization is made up of an interconnected network of interdependencies that create feedback loops that are nearly impossible for you to understand.
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 9:52 pm
MM, a college degree does NOT indicate education or intelligence. Just look at who is attending today. Anyone who can borrow the money to last for four years. LOL
As for my “construction” career, can you design a building that will pass the building codes? Can you wire a building? Plumb it? Construct it by yourself from scratch? Sell it for a profit when it is finished? I can and did for over 20 years and families live in dozens of custom homes today, not to mention commercial buildings, etc. People like me built the house you live in. The college buildings you attended (if you ever did). The roads, bridges, etc. you use daily.
Don’t bother to answer. I know you cannot. Those skill are far more valuable and demanding than ANY piece of paper saying you managed to attend enough classes for four years and managed to pass the dumbed down tests. Your paper degree will make a good fire starter when the SHTF. Mine will still be valuable and needed. Your, not so much.
makati1 on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 10:03 pm
MM, when you have some real facts to back up your assumptions, post them. Make sure they pertain to the subject being debated.
I am well aware of the globalization that will shrink/disappear when the SHTF. I merely point out the FACT that the Us will be hurt more than most, if not all, other countries because the Us lives off of at least 24% of the world’s resources and most are imported from distant places. Cut that to the 4% that is the Us’ honest share and you can see the pain coming. Cut your income to 20% of current and feel the pain.
Your arrogance blinds you to reality, Mm. I am not jealous of an immature, arrogant, uneducated, inexperienced person like yourself. I would not want to be you for a trillion dollars tax free. LOL
Antius on Sat, 31st Mar 2018 10:20 pm
Makati seems to be back with a vengeance, after a long absence recovering from anal reconstructive surgery 🙂
But seriously, do you have any reference to the US consuming 24% of the world’s resources? You could argue that they consume 20% of the Earths oil production. But that is only because they re-export lots of petroleum products to other nations. So using that as a proxy for greed is misleading.