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Page added on January 22, 2019
Heinberg: Sooner or Later, We Have to Stop Economic Growth — and We’ll Be Better for it
Both the U.S. economy and the global economy have expanded dramatically in the past century, as have life expectancies and material progress. Economists raised in this period of plenty assume that growth is good, necessary even, and should continue forever and ever without end, amen. Growth delivers jobs, returns on investment and higher tax revenues. What’s not to like? We’ve gotten so accustomed to growth that governments, corporations and banks now depend on it. It’s no exaggeration to say that we’re collectively addicted to growth.
The trouble is, a bigger economy uses more stuff than a smaller one, and we happen to live on a finite planet. So, an end to growth is inevitable. Ending growth is also desirable if we want to leave some stuff (minerals, forests, biodiversity and stable climate) for our kids and their kids. Further, if growth is meant to have anything to do with increasing quality of life, there is plenty of evidence to suggest it has passed the point of diminishing returns: Even though the U.S. economy is 5.5 times bigger now than it was in 1960 (in terms of real GDP), America is losing ground on its happiness index.
So how do we stop growth without making life miserable — and maybe even making it better?
To start with, there are two strategies that many people already agree on. We should substitute good consumption for bad, for example using renewable energy instead of fossil fuels. And we should use stuff more efficiently — making products that last longer and then repairing and recycling them instead of tossing them in a landfill. The reason these strategies are uncontroversial is that they reduce growth’s environmental damage without impinging on growth itself.
But renewable energy technology still requires materials (aluminum, glass, silicon and copper for solar panels; concrete, steel, copper and neodymium for wind turbines). And efficiency has limits. For example, we can reduce the time required to send a message to nearly zero, but from then on improvements are infinitesimal. In other words, substitution and efficiency are good, but they’re not sufficient. Even if we somehow arrive at a near-virtual economy, if it is growing we’ll still use more stuff, and the result will be pollution and resource depletion. Sooner or later, we have to do away with growth directly.
Getting Off Growth
If we’ve built our institutions to depend on growth, doesn’t that imply social pain and chaos if we go cold turkey? Perhaps. Getting off growth without a lot of needless disruption will require coordinated systemic changes, and those in turn will need nearly everyone’s buy-in. Policymakers will have to be transparent with regard to their actions, and citizens will want reliable information and incentives. Success will depend on minimizing pain and maximizing benefit.
The main key will be to focus on increasing equality. During the century of expansion, growth produced winners and losers, but many people tolerated economic inequality because they believed (usually mistakenly) that they’d one day get their share of the growth economy. During economic contraction, the best way to make the situation tolerable to a majority of people will be to increase equality. From a social standpoint, equality will serve as a substitute for growth. Policies to achieve equity are already widely discussed, and include full, guaranteed employment; a guaranteed minimum income; progressive taxation; and a maximum income.
Meanwhile we could begin to boost quality of life simply by tracking it more explicitly: instead of focusing government policy on boosting GDP (the total dollar value of all goods and services produced domestically), why not aim to increase Gross National Happiness — as measured by a selected group of social indicators?
These are ways to make economic shrinkage palatable; but how would policymakers actually go about putting the brakes on growth?
One tactic would be to implement a shorter workweek. If people are working less, the economy will slow down — and meanwhile, everyone will have more time for family, rest and cultural activities.
We could also de-financialize the economy, discouraging wasteful speculation with a financial transaction tax and a 100 percent reserve requirement for banks.
Stabilizing population levels (by incentivizing small families and offering free reproductive health care) would make it easier to achieve equity and would also cap the numbers of both producers and consumers.
Caps should also be placed on resource extraction and pollution. Start with fossil fuels: annually declining caps on coal, oil and gas extraction would reduce energy use while protecting the climate.
Cooperative Conservatism
Altogether, reining in growth would come with a raft of environmental benefits. Carbon emissions would decline; resources ranging from forests to fish to topsoil would be preserved for future generations; and space would be left for other creatures, protecting the diversity of life on our precious planet. And these environmental benefits would quickly accrue to people, making life more beautiful, easy and happy for everyone.
Engineering a happy conclusion to the growth binge of the past century might be challenging. But it’s not impossible.
Granted, we’re talking about an unprecedented, coordinated economic shift that would require political will and courage. The result might be hard to pigeonhole in the capitalist-socialist terms of reference with which most of us are familiar. Perhaps we could think of it as cooperative conservatism (since its goal would be to conserve nature while maximizing mutual aid). It would require a lot of creative thinking on everyone’s part.
Sound difficult? Here’s the thing: ultimately, it’s not optional. The end of growth will come one day, perhaps very soon, whether we’re ready or not. If we plan for and manage it, we could well wind up with greater well-being. If we don’t, we could find ourselves like Wile E. Coyote plunging off a cliff. Engineering a happy conclusion to the growth binge of the past century might be challenging. But it’s not impossible; whereas what we’re currently trying to do — maintain perpetual growth of the economy on a finite planet — most assuredly is.
Originally published at Ensia.
——————
Living in the Concretaceous Period
Scientists long ago determined that Earth had entered the Anthropocene period, based on a determination that humans were altering fundamental planetary parameters such as biodiversity and the chemistry of the atmosphere and oceans to the degree that it warranted an entirely new geological designation. Following another millennium of observation and analysis, skilled observers now tend to divide the Anthropocene into brief but distinct phases, including the Concretaceous, the Hellocene, and the current Depletozoic—which began centuries ago and appears likely to persist until the next awful thing happens.
While biologists have long agreed that humans are the dominant lifeform of the Anthropocene, some geologists now argue that, during the pivotal Concretaceous phase, it was the automobile that served as the true apex species. It was for the sake of automobiles that concrete—the signature rock stratum of the Concretaceous—was laid down over millions of square kilometers of landscape. The automobile served as a kind of exoskeleton for Concretaceous humans, as well as a status symbol, and it was for the powering of automobiles that millions of years’ worth of ancient sunlight, stored in the form of petroleum, was wrenched from the ground and combusted—thus altering the climate and triggering the swarm of events that led to the second phase of the Anthropocene, the Hellocene.
This latter observation has led some historians to explore the evolution of the automobile, from the primitive Stutzes and Locomobiles that rolled the primordial roads of the early Concreteaceous, all the way to the sleek Teslas and other electric cars that began to proliferate just as the swiftly intensifying events of the brief Hellocene brought the Concretaceous to a hot, chaotic end. At the thin Concretaceous-Hellocene boundary, there is some evidence to suggest the nascent evolution of driverless automobiles—which might eventually have made humans themselves obsolete, had not the catastrophic dawning of the Hellocene marked the extinction of the automobile itself, as well as the disappearance of millions of plant and animal species and the near-extinction of humans.
So many puzzles remain. Why were humans in the Concretaceous phase unable logically to foresee the inevitable consequences of their collective behavior? Why were humans so fascinated by automobiles that they were willing to imperil so many other creatures? What was the function of the small rectangular boxes that late Concretaceous humans seemed to carry with them at all times? Were they merely generic votive objects, or did they enable communication with distant spirits, as legend insists? Perhaps we will never know. Ongoing research can still teach us much about the strange ways of the powerful but doomed people of the early Anthropocene.
146 Comments on "Heinberg: Sooner or Later, We Have to Stop Economic Growth — and We’ll Be Better for it"
Duncan Idaho on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 12:47 pm
“Sound difficult? Here’s the thing: ultimately, it’s not optional.”
Bingo!
We have a winner
Davy on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 12:51 pm
“Sound difficult? Here’s the thing: ultimately, it’s not optional.”
and
it won’t be easy and it may not work. Who knows if we can degrowth and still hold this world together
roccman on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 1:13 pm
RH misses the point. The mob needs to stop breeding. But that won’t happen so – the mob will be slaughtered…kids and all.
Sissyfuss on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 1:34 pm
No Rocc, he says we’ll stabilize the population with all kinds of social programs and fun activities. And then Jesus and Buddha will lead us to the big rock candy mountain covered in Skittles and Baby Ruths. Just remember to sit on the correct end of the unicorn unless you’re looking for a cheap proctological exam.
Shortend on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 1:35 pm
Ahh, the PTB will just pretend there is economic growth till the bitter end.
Deep down, we all know this can last and hope it does until we are pushing up daisies
roccman on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 1:45 pm
LOL!!
RH is a tool or willfully ignorant. There is no way the agenda can be hidden. I found it by not watching TV for the past 15 years. That was all i needed to do. Anyone can read the agenda for themselves – it’s in plan site. The agenda – is to destroy the world and all it’s inhabitants in an effort to build an ark. End of story.
Anonymouse on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 2:12 pm
Good call retard, if anyone here knows anything about a no-growth paradigm, it would be you. You preside over a 500…ahem, .9 acre ‘farm’, where they only thing that grows is weeds……..and rust from all the abandoned flotsam that dots your ‘estate’.
Everyone, listen to the exceptionalturd, he is the resident expert on all things no-growth.(exception: weeds and moss). And everything else besides.
For the how-many-times now, there is no ‘we’ here dumbass. There is just you. Your contribution has, and will continue to consist of little more than trolling and sock puppeting in the one place on the interweb that wont ban you.
Bot alert on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 2:34 pm
The anon bot has made his regular 2:12 once a day appearance. Nothing new said. You can return to regular activities. Just ignore the noise.
pointer on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 2:52 pm
Should, should, should. Why not this, why not that. Because humans are stupidly myopic and incurably lazy, that’s why. The only thing that will “save” the planet is if humans are forced back into a hunter-gatherer way of life.
Cloggie on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 2:53 pm
The topic “peak oil” has been quietly dropped, economic growth is now default again.
According to Heinberg we should now aim at “peak oil demand” as soon as possible, with which I agree.
At least Heinberg has returned to reality, Kunstler likewise.
The last of the Mohicans on this board, the Marxist genocidal thug “I AM THE MOB” and Davy, who loves to continue to juggle with “peak oil dynamics” and similar smohe screens, are fighting a rear guard fight.
“Peak oil supply” is no longer acute. Potential black swans are financial collapse, geopolitics, Brexit and in the long term climate change.
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:18 pm
Clogg
University of California: Environmental Science & Technology (Malyshkina 2010)
1. It Will Take 131 Years to Replace Oil with Alternatives
2. World oil production will peak between 2010-2030
3. World proven oil reserves gone by 2041
https://www.scribd.com/document/394656677/Future-Sustainability-Forecasting-by-Exchange-Markets-Basic-Theory-and-an-Application-Malyshkina-2010
A global energy assessment (Jefferson 2016)
An extensive new scientific analysis conducted by the Former Chief Economist Michael Jefferson at Royal Dutch Shell published in Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews titled “A Global Energy Assessment 2016” : says “that proved conventional oil reserves as detailed in oil industry sources are likely “overstated” by half.” & “punt bluntly,the standard claim that the world has proved conventional oil reserves of nearly 1.7 trillion barrels is overstated by about 876 billion barrels. Thus, despite the fall in crude oil prices from a peak in June 2014, after that of July 2008, the “peak oil” issue remains with us.”
The World in the 21st Century is faced with huge challenges that go far beyond, but importantly include, energy challenges on the supply, access, and use sides. So severe are these challenges, mainly arising from the demands of a rapidly increasing human population on the Earth’s limited resources, that the future existence of large numbers of people may be threatened with extinction. In that sense, we may be observing the twilight of the Anthropocene (Human) Age.
https://www.scribd.com/document/394043449/A-
Global-Energy-Assessment-Jefferson-2015
Projection of world fossil fuels by country (Mohr, 2015) Fuel
Over 900 different regions and subfuel situations were modeled using three URR scenarios of Low, High, and Best Guess. All three scenarios indicate that the consistent strong growth in world fossil fuel production is likely to cease after 2025. The Low and Best Guess scenarios are projected to peak before 2025 and decline thereafter. The High scenario is anticipated to have a strong growth to 2025 before stagnating in production for 50 years and thereafter declining.
https://www.scribd.com/document/375110317/Projection-of-World-Fossil-Fuels-by-Country-Mohr-2015
IEA Chief warns of world oil shortages by 2020 as discoveries fall to record lows
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-global-oil-discoveries-at-record-low-in-2016-1493244000
Saudi Arabia’s Energy Minister Warns of World Oil Shortages Ahead
https://www.wsj.com/articles/saudi-minister-sees-end-of-oil-price-slump-1476870790
There will be an oil shortage in the 2020’s, Goldman Sachs says
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/goldman-sachs-there-will-be-an-oil-shortage-in-the-2020s.html
Wood Mackenzie warns of oil and gas supply crunch
https://www.ft.com/content/a1eb0e58-d7a4-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713
Imminent peak oil could burst US, global economic bubble – study
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/nov/19/peak-oil-economicgrowth
German Military (leaked) Peak Oil study: oil is used in the production of 95% of all industrial goods, so a shortage of oil would collapse the world economy & world governments
https://www.scribd.com/document/387459134/german
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:21 pm
Electric cars will not stop rising oil demand, says IEA chief
https://www.climatechangenews.com/2019/01/22/electric-cars-will-not-stop-rising-oil-demand-says-energy-agency-chief/
IEA Sees No Peak Oil Demand ‘Any Time Soon’
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-sees-no-peak-oil-demand-any-time-soon-1488816002
Don’t be too optimistic about electric car forecasts
https://gulfnews.com/business/analysis/dont-be-too-optimistic-about-electric-car-forecasts-1.61172939
Looks like Europe and Asia will soon have to beg, borrow, or steal to meet their energy needs!
Good luck!
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:23 pm
The End of the Oil Age is Imminent!
Recently, the HSBC oil report stated that 80% of conventional oil fields were declining at a rate of 5-7% per year. This means that there will be an oil shortage of ~30 million barrels per day by 2030 and ~40 million barrels per day by 2040.
http://www.scribd.com/document/367688629/HSBC-Peak-Oil-Report-2017
What is mentioned far less often is that annual oil discoveries have lagged annual production since the 1980s.
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
Now, this problem has nothing to do with the recent decline in the oil price, which started in 2014. This has been an on-going problem for the past 30 years. Now, the IEA is predicting oil shortages by ~2020 due to declining exploration.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/iea-says-global-oil-discoveries-at-record-low-in-2016-1493244000
Here, the IEA blames this problem on the low oil price. But, this problem started in the 1980s. The problem is geological: we are running out of conventional cheap oil. Shale and tar sands are not the answer, either. Those resources are far too expensive, compared to conventional oil, because the global economy is based on cheap conventional oil. Expensive oil is not a replacement for cheap oil.
Based upon the HSBC report and the IEA, the End of Oil Age will start around ~2020: there will be a dramatic economic depression due to exhaustion of cheap oil. This will cause a global economic collapse.
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:24 pm
The easy oil is gone
Oil discoveries peaked in the 1960’s.
Every year since 1984 oil consumption has exceeded oil discovery.
In 2017 oil discoveries were about 7 billion barrels; consumption was about 35 billion barrels
Of the world’s 20 largest oil fields, 18 were discovered 1917-1968; 2 in the 1970’s; 0 since.
https://imgur.com/a/6dEDt
https://www.chron.com/business/energy/article/Oil-discoveries-in-2017-hit-all-time-low-12447212.php
onlooker on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:29 pm
It will stop, nothing needs to be done. Just sit back and watch, as the Earth cannot support even a third of current human population
Davy on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 4:46 pm
“The topic “peak oil” has been quietly dropped, economic growth is now default again.”
Growth never stopped and peak oil is still alive and well for anyone who understands the entire picture. Sure the peaker brand of a few years ago is dead but a new and more potent PO is around now and it includes geologic, political, economic, and planetary issues. It is both demand and supply related. It is converging with other issues and reinforcing decline. Anyone smart dismissing PO has a hidden agenda or is a delusional techno optimist. There are several here.
“The last of the Mohicans on this board, the Marxist genocidal thug “I AM THE MOB” and Davy, who loves to continue to juggle with “peak oil dynamics” and similar smohe screens, are fighting a rear guard fight.”
LOL, you are the first and last of the fantasy PBM-ohicans. What a bokay of lies that is
“Peak oil supply” is no longer acute.”
Yea, as of today but tomorrow we could be up the creek for many reasons and suddenly. Go ahead a crow about how good things are, clogged. You are here because you know something is wrong but you can’t admit it.
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 5:14 pm
IEA Chief: EVs Are Not The End Of The Oil Era
Electric vehicles (EVs) today are not the end of global oil demand growth, nor are they the key solution to reducing carbon emissions, Fatih Birol, the Executive Director of the International Energy Agency (IEA), said during the ‘Strategic Outlook on Energy’ panel at the World Economic Forum in Davos on Tuesday.
According to Birol, analysts need to put things into perspective and consider that five million EVs globally is nothing compared to 1 billion internal combustion engine (ICE) cars.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/IEA-Chief-EVs-Are-Not-The-End-Of-The-Oil-Era.html
Suck it Clogg! This will teach you to put the cart in front of the horse!
LOL
makati1 on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 5:55 pm
Western humans are addicted to waste. They have been programmed by the god Money and his disciple, Greed, otherwise known as Capitalism. Unfortunately, the disease is spreading to the rest of the world and must be eradicated before it ends civilization.
The Us is the main infectious zone and must be quarantined. It is in the last stages of dying, but is still spreading its disease to subjects like China where growth of the disease is still possible. Bill Gates will not provide a vaccine for this disease because he is one of the major disease vectors and profits from its spread.
Perhaps the antidote is Trump? He is fast destroying the capitalist structure but also the nuclear safety net, long established to prevent the final eradication of humanity. Which will win? Only time will tell.
Darrell Cloud on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 6:45 pm
There is a cold civil war being waged between urban and rural populations. London, Paris, New York, Miami and Chicago have more in common with each other than they do with the surrounding counties and provinces. They are socialist in construct and totalitarian in nature. All of them are police states. Their policies have served as magnets to the third world. Millions have flocked to these city centers giving them political dominance over the regions that surround them. These mega cities serve as the power base for money men and power brokers while they strip the hinterlands of their resources.
Paris and London both have been captured by North Africa. They are a template for what is to come. Third worlders will deliver the vote for the money men and power brokers for a while, but in time they become the local majority. Then, they set up their own state ousting the old guard and replacing it with the likes of Acosta Cortez. Latin America and the Caribbean are colonizing the U.S. Drive through Miami. It is a different country.
The fault lines are far more than rich versus poor. They are racial and ethnic. They are cultural. Marxists have pulled together an incredibly explosive amalgamation of Muslims, Jews, Christians, feminists and gays. The only binding cement for this amalgamation is their mutual hatred of the Deplorables and their addiction to government subsidies.
The natural forces of entropy are working against these massive city states. The tax base is fleeing the city centers. The producers have been put out of business by cheap far eastern imports. The dependent classes and the bureaucracy that services them continues to grow exponentially. Their demands for food, fuel and water continue to expand. All of this at a time when the sweet spots of energy production are going into decline.
The Deplorables out in the hinterlands are less and less inclined to follow the edicts of their urban betters. Gun registration efforts and gun bans here in the states have proven to be dismal failures. The obvious weaponizing of law enforcement to serve the interests of the entrenched power brokers ruling the city states has shredded any pretext of the legitimacy of their self serving legal code. Their serve and protect mantra does not serve and protect the Deplorables.
We know how this ends. It happened in ancient Rome and it happened in Detroit. The web that holds all these volatile elements in place begins to fray. We are seeing this play out in Washington between Polsie and Trump at this very moment. At some point the web that holds the infrastructure together snaps and these city states depopulate.
Look after your own security and your own larder. The unraveling will not be a happy time. Hansel and Gretel is a fairy tail that masks a horrible truth. When things come apart, people eat their own.
makati1 on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 6:56 pm
Darrell, your essay is a good summery of today’s US. The cities don’t seem to understand that they are supported by the rural serfs. It is interesting and entertaining, watching the ongoing activity in Amerika. What should we call it? Freak show? Shit storm? Cluster fuck? “Animal Farm”? “1984”? Or all of them? Kinda like having a box seat to watch the fall of Rome in fast forward motion.
Darrell Cloud on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 7:25 pm
It’s not just the U.S. that is on the chopping block. Mega cities are not exclusive to the U.S. The same dynamic is playing out in Europe as well. Paris is burning.
More Davy Sock Puppetry on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 7:42 pm
Bot alert on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 2:34 pm
Will he ever grow up?
makati1 on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 7:46 pm
Darrell, of course not, but the Us is leading the parade and Paris is only the obvious event. American cities are dying also, but it is covered up more than in Europe. The Us wants to destroy Europe. It is a competitor for power. All the signs point to that fact.
TPTB also want to take down the Us, and it is in progress. What better way than to divide the serfs into warring factions and then prod them on? Did you notice the psychos lining up for the next US Presidential election? What fun these next two years are going to be. Exciting!
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 7:55 pm
Darell
You forgot to list any sources to back up your ignorant and fat fucking mouth..You jesus freak moron..
Distressed Communities: Map of Unemployment Rate, Education, Housing, and Poverty by Congressional District
https://eig.org/dci/2018-dci-map-national-congressional-districts-map
You tell me which part of the country is dying?
You ignorant loon..And you have board lunatic geezer mak cheering you on..But he is a lonely loser who is slowing dying each day..All alone..LOL
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 8:23 pm
Notice whenever you shut clogg down he disappears for several hours..Only to come back talking about something different..And then a few hours later he start making his ignorant denier claims like “peak oil has faded” all over again..Rinse and repeat..He can’t hold a candle the references I have..
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 8:34 pm
Charlie Kirk moves to Cuba for better healthcare
https://i.redd.it/lg4y7acdm2c21.png
makati1 on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 8:55 pm
MOB once again proving his immaturity and lack of intelligence:
“You jesus freak moron”
“You ignorant loon”
“board lunatic geezer”
“lonely loser”
All in two posts.
Insanity big time and he is too stupid to see it. Not to mention his hypocritical comment:
“…he disappears for several hours..Only to come back talking about something different.”
It’s fun watching a human self destruct. He and Davy are racing to the bottom. LOL
Cloggie on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 10:17 pm
Good post by Darrell.
“Paris is burning.”
Because of an implicit white uprising. That is what really is encouraging.
“Look after your own security and your own larder. The unraveling will not be a happy time. Hansel and Gretel is a fairy tail that masks a horrible truth. When things come apart, people eat their own.”
Amen to that. But at the same time don’t be too individualistic. You can only hope to survive when tshtf within your own ethnic group.
And think pan-European. Europe will come earlier out of the libtard-created mess, because we have fewer enemies to kill.
Cloggie on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 10:27 pm
“IEA Chief: EVs Are Not The End Of The Oil Era”
Mobster always lies that the IEA is warning that peak oil supply is immanent.
Now mobster-moron contradicts himself by refering to the IEA as saying that oil isn’t going any time soon.
“peak oil is still alive and well for anyone who understands the entire picture. Sure the peaker brand of a few years ago is dead but a new and more potent PO is around now and it includes geologic, political, economic, and planetary issues. It is both demand and supply related. It is converging with other issues and reinforcing decline.”
Typical davy empty word salad, devoid of any meaning. Davy can’t admit to himself that his entire life is built around a colossal misjudgment from 200x, in which not even his Heinberg guru of yesteryear believes in anymore.
Heinberg today: pulleeze let’s bring on peak oil demand b’cause that peak oil supply thingy of mine ain’t gonna happen by itself.lol
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 10:33 pm
Economist: The Eurozone is back near Recession, again
https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2019/01/22/the-euro-area-is-back-on-the-brink-of-recession
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 10:37 pm
Clogg
Clogg your fantasies are all going up in smoke..First the GOOGLE self driving car CEO comes out and says they wont be able to work in the rain or snow..And now the IEA is warning about peak oil supply is imminent and peak oil demand is not going to happen..
Ouch looks like you are 0-3!
LMFAO
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 22nd Jan 2019 10:48 pm
Fox News is now talking about aliens in prime time!
https://imgur.com/a/3994pq8
Conservatives are such morons..Its almost unbelievable.
Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 1:42 am
“Clogg your fantasies are all going up in smoke..First the GOOGLE self driving car CEO comes out and says they wont be able to work in the rain or snow..And now the IEA is warning about peak oil supply is imminent and peak oil demand is not going to happen..”
Wtf does google know about cars or renewable energy? They should concentrate on their core business, namely figuring out how to put ADL-approved url’s at the top of every query.
These google statements are merely further proof that third world USA is losing the innovation competition with Eurasia.
Core message America 2019: “it won’t work”
makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:41 am
Climate change deniers, ask the Australians if the planet is cooling:
“Op-Ed: Roads melt, massive heat hits Australia”
“Even the hardy outback people are finding it tough. Temperatures of 48 C (118.4F) have capped off a hot week inland at Broken Hill, in the real “Red Centre” of the country.”
Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/environment/op-ed-roads-melt-massive-heat-hits-australia/article/541187#ixzz5dPzAyAol
I’ve been watching this hot spell at:
https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/overlay=temp/orthographic=-229.83,-16.38,425
I’m glad I do not live there.
makati1 on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 2:47 am
And the north isn’t spared from the heat either:
“Greenland’s ice melting four times faster than in 2003, new study suggests”
““This is going to cause additional sea level rise. We are watching the ice sheet hit a tipping point.””
https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/greenland-ice-sea-level-rising-climate-change-ohio-state-university-a8739681.html
How many “tipping points” before the extinction cliff? Stay tuned…
Theedrich on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:23 am
“Stopping growth is immoral” (Pelosi paraphrased). Such is the official attitude of the politicoes and their bribeocrats, especially on the Left, though the Right shares much of the blame. The fact is, democracies of any sort (Marxist, Capitalist, &c.) cannot cope with reality, since reducing “growth” means dismantling the power structure to a serious extent. Oddly, North Korea may have created a kind of no-growth culture, and we know what the West thinks of that system (if only because it represents a threat to the Westphalian arrangement controlled by the U.S.).
ThirdWorld parasitism demands growth, forces and feeds it. Meanwhile the Swamp broadcasts and lauds alleged Yankee “values” in order to make Caucasians feel guilty. Traditional Majority Americans must expunge their White guilt by paying more in blood money to imported muds, to the Davos elites and to the military-industrial complex.
The tailspin is already happening in America: death by overdose; dissolution of families; Orwellian Newspeak to mask the destruction of traditional culture; conversion of the centers of major cities into fecal swamps; proliferation of insane and fruitless wars; burdening youth with unpayable debts for worthless “education”; not to mention the unpayable debt ($21 trillion) of the nation as a whole; plus the exploding situation of homelessness. “Growth” promises yet more of all of this.
Collapse, when it comes, may bring a North-Korean-type solution to the conundrum.
Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 4:54 am
“Darrell, of course not, but the Us is leading the parade and Paris is only the obvious event. American cities are dying also”
Makato, the real danger lies in Asia where the worst of overpopulation is and where food must be imported. Xi just gave a speech about the dire challenges awaiting China. He knows this and you would think you would as obsessed as you are about your safety. You are probably in the most danger of anyone on this board being not far from Manila. Manila is one of the most overpopulated mega cities and it is on an Island that is not self-sufficient and overpopulated. Check out this for the reality of the overpopulation and why danger is at your doorstep:
“POPULATION DENSITY MAP! Main » 2014 » August » 13 » 47.Population density (administrative boundaries) map of Luzon (Philippines)”
https://tinyurl.com/yc8ehp9q
Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:21 am
“France And Germany Take Major Step Toward EU Army To Protect “Europe Threatened By Nationalism”
https://tinyurl.com/yayoobxr
“We have taken major steps in the field of military cooperation, this is good and largely supported in this house. But I also have to say, seeing the developments of the recent years, that we have to work on a vision to establish a real European army one day.”
“The closest thing to a current “EU army” that does exist (if it can be called even that) – the Common Security and Defence Policy (CSDP) – is generally perceived as more of a civil and emergency response joint EU member mechanism that would be ineffectual under the threat of an actual military invasion or major event. Meanwhile perhaps a prototype EU army is already in action on the streets of Paris, revealing what critics fear it may actually be used for in the future…So now we have combat ready armored vehicles with the EU flag which are being used against unarmed European protesters who are demonstrating against a pro EU authoritarian regime.”
“The expected push back came swiftly and fiercely as Marine Le Pen, the leader of France’s National Rally party, slammed the updated Aachen treaty as “an act that borders on treason”, while others worried this is an attempt to create a “super EU” within the bloc. Alexander Gauland of Germany’s Alternative für Deutschland (AfD), for example, warned: As populists, we insist that one first takes care of one’s own country… We don’t want Macron to renovate his country with German money … The EU is deeply divided. A special Franco-German relationship will alienate us even further. Italy’s far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, warned earlier this month that his country could seek an “Italian-Polish axis” to challenge the whole premise of a “Franco-German motor” that drives European centralization.”
Field Marshal Cinque on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 5:41 am
Mr. Honky Nationalist “Theedrich”
You’re damn right you should be feeling gut wrenching guilt. You enslaved my people and built your country by enslaving people of color. Your plantation overseers beat the beat people into brutal submission.
Now, Mr. Honky, the chickens are finally coming home to roost. Your only salvation is a public admittance of culpability and the payment of reparations to all people of color. This will be a start, but by no means sufficient to making final amends.
The most grotesque and public display of White subjugation of Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, and all people of color was embodied in Nazi Germany. Fortunately for you, the recognized the error of your ways and destroyed the blond/blue superior race for good. The destruction will only be complete once Germany and the US transition into a mixed rainbow race.
Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:07 am
You know I’m really over being the one who needs to put a positive spin on the barrage of bad news articles coming in lately nobody takes me seriously anymore .
Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:12 am
You all must think I’m a pathetic loser but I don’t care even if I can convince just one of you doomers that A.I and technology will save our asses my job is done.
Antius on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:19 am
“France And Germany Take Major Step Toward EU Army To Protect “Europe Threatened By Nationalism”
Looks to me like the purpose of this new European army is to intimidate and attack nations (I.e. Hungary and Poland) that do not tow the Brussels line, I.e. do not bow down to the mud skin invasion.
Far from being the salvation of Europe, this army is the tool of its oppression.
Thedigger on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:37 am
As for Australia burning,these are summer temp in the inland,look up the old records and you will get a shock this nothing out of the ordinary for inland.
Down south in Vic the evening temp have been lower than the norm
Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:40 am
We are now on the downhill side of the Hubbard peak conventional oil bell curve with 2005 being the start and 2012 being the top . It’s going to pick up speed from here on. Buckle up lads
Darrell Cloud on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:41 am
Mob what I don’t know far out weighs what I do know. Having had the experience of living through 5 hurricanes I have experienced power outages that have lasted for weeks. That experience has given me an understanding of what systemic collapse looks like.
We have prepared for that eventuality. Have you?
DerHundistLos on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 7:12 am
Clogged:
Be careful what you wish for as it could very well be your head on the chopping block first.
Darrell Cloud:
Your distribe is filled with so many gross inaccuracies that it’s hard to know where to begin.
Let’s start with US welfare. You claim it’s populations concentrated in Blue states with large urban populations that are to blame. Surprise!! Of the ten most federally dependent states (states that receive far more in federal payouts for welfare, food stamps, ADC, etc., nine of the top ten are rural Red states. Conversely, eight of the ten least dependent states are large urban populated Blue states.
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/
Here are additional myth busters:
1. Poverty is highest in rural areas.
2. Most new jobs are NOT created in rural areas (thus accounting for declining populations).
3. Disabilities are most common in rural areas.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/six-charts-illustrate-divide-rural-urban-america
Shall I continue?
Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 7:17 am
“Clogged: Be careful what you wish for as it could very well be your head on the chopping block first.”
Come on der hund, can’t you see the cloggie impersonations?
Darrell Cloud on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 7:57 am
Der I specifically stated that the divide was more complicated than a simple divide between the rich and the poor. I stated that the mega cities such as New York and Paris had served as magnets for third worlders. As a result, those diverse populations had attained or were attaining local majorities. Those local majorities were displacing the old guard and setting up their own city states.
Clearly the state of Florida has more poor people than the city of Miami. But, Miami, Orlando, Tampa and Jacksonville because of their population densities hold sway over Florida politics. Because of these very diverse population centers, Florida is swinging to the left. Those diverse populations do not look anything like the populations that occupy the rural counties.
These mega cities cannot sustain themselves without pulling resources from the rest of the state. Their tax codes and their dictates transfer resources to the urban centers while at the same time limiting freedom in the rural counties. Consequently there is a divide between urban and rural populations.
A look at the county by county voting patterns in the 2016 election clearly documents this divide between urban and rural counties.
http://i0.wp.com/metrocosm.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/election-2016-county-map.png?resize=600%2C386
Apneaman on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:07 am
“Thedigger on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 6:37 am
As for Australia burning,these are summer temp in the inland,look up the old records and you will get a shock this nothing out of the ordinary for inland.
Down south in Vic the evening temp have been lower than the norm”
Why aren’t your providing a link to these official records to support your (dumb) argument?
..
Australia swelters through record-breaking heatwave
Australia has just sweltered through at least five of its 10 warmest days on record – 18 January 2019
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-46886798
‘It’s like hell here’: Australia bakes as record temperatures nudge 50C
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/19/australia-swelters-as-relentless-hot-weather-smashes-records
Australia weather: record-breaking heatwave enters third day as temperatures soar
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/16/australia-weather-record-breaking-heatwave-enters-third-day-as-temperatures-soar
Thedigger, exactly which part of “record breaking” high temperatures do you not understand?
Are you an Auzzie? One of those downunder dummies raised on a steady diet of Rupert Murdoch world view via his media/propaganda empire?
Keep up the bad work. It’s very entertaining watching you denier halfwits fumble around like a colour blind drooling retard with a Rubik’s Cube. Y’all’s alternative reality explanations are a hoot. I am so enjoying watching the acceleration of the banquet of consequences.
Interactive: 100 years of temperatures in Australia
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-09/100-years-of-temperatures/5582146
Davy on Wed, 23rd Jan 2019 8:28 am
“Der I specifically stated that the divide was more complicated than a simple divide between the rich and the poor.”
Darrel, you will find it very difficult to be balanced and moderate here with rabid extremist like der hund. You will not get anywhere reasoning with the guy. He is a blind lying liberal extremist. He is 80 plus anyway and to old to change. I respect your comments as an effort at the truth and not agenda. Keep up the good work and Spit on an extremist any chance you get.