A new analysis says global demand for oil will peak by 2030

54 Comments on "A new analysis says global demand for oil will peak by 2030"

Cloggie on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 6:02 pm 



In Europe peak oil demand was 1998:

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Gross_inland_consumption,_EU-28,_1990-2015_(%25_of_total_consumption)_YB17.png

Boat on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 6:40 pm 



MM,

2030 was my prediction for peak oil almost 2 years ago. These peer reviewed huge companies spent major bucks for information I gave to you for free. Notice all of them think oil will be around and no mention of any crash. In fact these leading institutions talk about oil in 2040. How could you be so far off. Lots of oil for lots of decades.

Davy on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 6:42 pm 



So what boat. Predicting out that far in this day and age is foolish. Stick to the near term you have a better chance.

MASTERMIND on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 7:48 pm 



Boat

What leading institutions the IEA and Saudi’s are warning about peak oil now? And they are the two top dogs! You asked for a peer reviewed paper and then you just blow it off! You are fucking ignorant! just face it you are a big fucking pussy who cant handle reality! Why dont you get down on your knees boy and pray to your God Head!

MASTERMIND on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 7:53 pm 



Boat

I could give a flying fuck what your imbread prediction was about peak oil. I care about what the science and experts say! And you are no expert! Now why dont you go back to watching some Incest or Bestiality or homosexual porn! According to Porn Hub your area the bible belt loves those categories the most! You sick fucking racist scum! Hillary nailed it when she said “DEPLORABLE”

Anonymouse1 on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 8:35 pm 



Hey look. its dumb and dumber…and dumbest. Sorry exceptionalist, you and your sock only count as one dumbass. You should hitchhike to hollywood, see if you can sell the concept to hollyjewood. Three idiots that have no clue, and make no sense at all. Throw in some fart and toilet jokes and you’re set.

MASTERMIND on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 8:42 pm 



Here are five peer reviewed scientific studies authored by top experts that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that global civilization will collapse within the next decade.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652617304225?via%3Dihub
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3574335/
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf
http://www.feasta.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Trade-Off1.pdf

Simple really….when the World Economy Collapses everything shuts down…the end… We’re talking about grids down all over the world and 7.5B people dropping like f*** flies in short order. The collapse will be absolutely horrible..There is no collapse or horror movie ever produced that has even come close to imagining what the collapse of BAU might look like. I’m talking about every corporation and every social program going bankrupt at once. I’m talking about people eating people. I’m talking about the Worst Catastrophe to ever happen in the history of mankind. Nothing has ever, or will ever come close….

MASTERMIND on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 8:53 pm 



The Boomer generation just assumes that they can borrow unlimited amounts of money from future generations and the rest of the world. They will be shocked to learn that they can’t. The Boomers spent their parent’s (inherited) money, their own money, their children’s future, and their grandchildren’s future – on tax cuts for bailed out billionaires, and military blunders. They’re the most rapacious generation in human history. They can’t get monkey hammered soon enough.

JuanP on Fri, 26th Jan 2018 9:13 pm 



Cloggie, That graph you linked to does not show that European oil consumption has peaked; it shows that the percentage of European energy provided by oil has diminished slightly. I think you mistakenly selected the wrong graph. I think it is reasonable for Europe to try to consume less oil since they have to import most of it.

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:28 am 



Ouch, you are right Juan. Elementary graph reading mistake, my bad.

The truth is that EU-27 peak oil demand was not in 1997, as I falsely claimed, but much earlier, namely in the seventies:

https://goo.gl/images/d8GGrR

(at least as far as the period before 2010 is concerned; Europe is currently booming)

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:35 am 



Europe is definately past peak oil:

https://goo.gl/images/MXW7ys

And we’re doing fine, despite what some collapseniks here love to claim.

https://youtu.be/PM9_PrBoq9Q

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:35 am 



Clogg

Take your bullshit gas-lighting somewhere else. Solar and wind are pathetic excesses for energy! You know what the facts are! You are such a deplorable! I still dont understand why you comment every day on a peak oil doomer blog..You make no fucking sense…Nobody fucking cares about Europe! Its a mess and is collapsing faster than you mind!

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 7:22 am 



Clogg

Take your bullshit gas-lighting somewhere else.

Nothing hurts millimind-dracula more than plain facts.

Greetings to you from dr. van Helsing.lol

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/vampires/images/4/4e/Dracula-1931-dracula-van-helsing.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170420080854

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 7:32 am 



Solar and wind are pathetic excesses for energy! You know what the facts are!

Sure I do:

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/01/06/44-wind-denmark-smashed-already-huge-wind-energy-records-2017/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/germany-wind-power-free-energy-consumers-weekend-surplus-a8031141.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/scotland-renewable-wind-energy-power-electricity-three-million-homes-118-per-cent-of-households-a7855846.html

Nobody fucking cares about Europe!

Europe has the most advanced renewable energy program in the world and is spearheading in implementing it.

By 2030 Europe will be in energy safety, the rest of the world indeed not so much. You bush rangers can only dream of that.

In America there are simply too many depressed millimind’s and Davy’s, who are not up to the task to carry High Civilization and whose only purpose in life is to talk America into the grave, by turning it into a third world country and broadcasting that nothing can be done about it.

Ah well, at least you serve European interests by doing so and clearing yourself out of the way, geopolitically. Millimind and Dayy should receive EU subsidy for the valuable work they are doing.lol

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 8:06 am 



Sure nedernazi, dream of your fantasy world of energy safety and a final solution curtesy of a PBM nonesense. Of anyone on this forum including billyT, you are the most delusional and chauvinistic. You think your stupid shit don’t stink and you are the toughest people around. The laziest people in the world are Eurotards. A Eurotard Army is a joke. You can’t stand the fact you Eurotards are a second rate power and protected by the US. Your politics and economy are hopelessly flawed. FRAUD

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 8:30 am 



EU set 35% renewable primary energy target for 2030. That’s enough to survive, provided storage is in place as well.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-electricity-renewables-ppas/big-firms-call-on-eu-to-set-35-percent-renewable-power-supplies-target-idUSKBN1E71IL

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-electricity-climatechange/eu-governments-agree-renewable-energy-targets-for-2030-idUSKBN1EC2NO

The laziest people in the world are Eurotards. You can’t stand the fact you Eurotards are a second rate power and protected by the US.

Laziest? Says who? That third world country pretending it still belongs to the first world and that despite massive trade deficits let’s itself being served by the rest of the world in exchange for worthless pieces of green paper as a left-over of Bretton Woods?

America the predator, not “protector”. But your time is up, buddy. Everybody in the world has enough of you. You are the most hated country in the world, for good reason.

Earlier this week in Cottbus, East-Germany:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PfvxtDHk8c

The don’t take this “refugee” shit anymore.

East-Germany, in hindsight, was lucky enough to be part of the Soviet, not American empire, the worst disaster in European history. The Soviet commie shit-hole has meanwhile collapsed, which leaves only one more commie shit-hole to go, that luckily is in the process of committing suicide, so we don’t have to defeat it. I leave it to you as an exercise who that might be. I only have to read your own depressed posts to get a good laugh. Your posts are like a thermometer in your own imperial ass. Reading: terminal high fever.

kervennic on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 8:49 am 



Given how fat, polluted and sterile are white people, my guess is that radical Muslim who are far better at breeding, will rule the world and yes they might make the demand go definitely down.

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 8:59 am 



Nidernazi vomit. You are nothing but a crackpot addicted to the thought of yourself as a Eurotard as part of a great powerful people again. Your renewable energy fantasy has not been realized. You are barely ahead of the US and China and act as though you are the leaders. Your economy is flawed and your politics the paralysis of a geriatric committee. Nedernazi get a life and quit blaming the rest of the world for your Eurotard failures.

kervennic on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 9:07 am 



Europe has past peak oil and we are not doing fine at all. We are collapsing. Suburbs are massively converting to drug business and weapons. Many people do not go to the medic any longer. People are on the verge of benkruptcy.
In the large country, jails are full and 60 % are immigrant who find no place in the collapsing economy.

Only small tax paradise like nederlands, Luxemburg are doing fine. The rest is declining, life expectancy is beginning to fall, though cheap oil has made available enormous investment in the past. And IQ as well as school level is also declining sharply.

The rich gets richer, the poor are coming in mass. But in the end tired of being slave they will probably slaughter them as is the case in many part of the world.

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 9:07 am 



There are plenty of fat stupid Muslims. In this day of overshoot too many children is a handicap. No children is problematic. Better to have a good balance. This whole racism thing these days is intellectually lite. There is so much more to what is happening than race. This is why the nedernazi appears so rediculious. He bases all his doctrine on white supremacy which any intelligent person can rip up without trouble. Those who are upset with cultural hijacking should be but that works both ways. Whites need to stop our hijacking of other cultures. We need good fences and then we can be good neighbors.

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 9:37 am 



We need good fences and then we can be good neighbors.

Davy just outed himself as the (wannabee) “racist nazi pig”.lol Davy wants to have his cake and eat it too. He wants to close US borders and hence voted for Trump and at the same time wants to use the US 1%-“Nazi”-rhetoric against anybody who wants to do the same. Davy is a walking confused inconsistency, extremely light on history. But white Americans like Davy have nothing to say about immigration, certainly not after Trump.

We are collapsing. Suburbs are massively converting to drug business and weapons. Many people do not go to the medic any longer. People are on the verge of benkruptcy.

That applies mostly to that France of yours, the worst country in Europe regarding migration. It is not as bad as the US but it comes closest. But nothing that a good civil war can’t fix.

Collapse will come alright, but it will have little to do with peak oil, but everything with demographics. And it likely will happen in the US first, shortly after Trump ends his presidency, regularly or irregular.

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 10:15 am 



Nedernazi outed himself as an extremist with the typical double standards of individuals who can’t live up to his own inflated selfworth. All you need to do with any of the extremist chauvinists here is to see their constant irregularities from reality. IOW, they can’t reality test their positions so they use countless tools of deception.

The nedernazi is the worst on this forum for this. He is likely a failure of a man personally. This is precisely why theese individuals are so cocky and stuck on themselves. On a digital forum they become even more narcissistic. People who are failures often exhibit these types of personalities. Those who show humility and grace are the ones to admire. These deplorable individuals like the nedernazi could never hope to come close to these honorable individuals. DESPICABLE

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 10:20 am 



Our collapse is like snow accumulating on a mountain side. Nobody knows what will be the snowflake that starts the avalanche nor when it will start. We just know it will happen.

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 10:21 am 



Clogg

Parroting MSM propaganda will get you nothing but laughed at! Writers in the MSM know next to nothing about energy! Just like you!

ONE PERCENT SOLAR AND WIND -IEA LOL

Darrell Cloud on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 10:31 am 



In the coming collapse, multiculturalism may be a good catalyst for thinning the herd. In times of desperation it is much easier to coalesce into a close knit group of about 150 people if they are of the same ethnicity. With so many different others, it would be easier to adopt the fallback position of them or us. The resulting internecine slaughter would go a long way in reducing demand for viable resources in a collapsed system. You might want to get your 150 to look into motte and bailey construction. This is not humanities first rodeo. Europe is dotted with these types of fortifications. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motte-and-bailey_castle

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 11:14 am 



ONE PERCENT SOLAR AND WIND -IEA LOL

Despite repeated request from my side, you have NEVER provided an accurate IEA link that says that global wind + solar is less than 1%.

Accurate means: report link + bpage number.

You are probably making it up. It is likely more than 2% primary energy. But that is THE WORLD. Europe is far ahead of “the world”:

13% primary energy in the EU is renewable:

https://tinyurl.com/ycefafyk

Electricity far higher than 13%.

Should be 35% primary energy by 2030.

And remember: the most important “source of energy” is conservation and efficiency.

Additionally space heating can be achieved with a heat pump at half the energy cost or less:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2018/01/27/ground-drilling-vertical-heat-exchanger-for-heat-pump/

Cars can drive on 33 km/liter or 78 mpg, half of the current average, like this Audi A2 I used to own:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h9K6lzpmHA

All these measures together will ensure that Europe will “make it to the other side” first, without too much loss of comfort.

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 11:32 am 



Clogg

I have numerous times and you ignore the evidence every time!

Solar and Wind produced less than one percent of total world energy in 2016 – IEA WEO 2017
https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/KeyWorld2017.pdf

Page one! You fucking retard!

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 11:34 am 



Clogg

Here are two peer reviewed scientific studies that conclude a transition to renewable s is never going to happen in your life time if ever!

UC Davis Study: It Will Take 131 Years to Replace Oil with Alternatives (Malyshkina, 2010)
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es100730q

University of Chicago Study: predicts world economy unlikely to stop relying on fossil fuels (Covert, 2016)

https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/jep.30.1.117

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:05 pm 



Page one! You fucking retard!

Page 1 is the title page without any data whatsoever, you imbecile and kindergarten dropout!

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:08 pm 



UC Davis Study: It Will Take 131 Years to Replace Oil with Alternatives (Malyshkina, 2010)

Well perhaps for Burkina Faso. So this Angela Davis university admits it is possible after all.

University of Chicago Study: predicts world economy unlikely to stop relying on fossil fuels (Covert, 2016)

Huh, what happened to that peak oil of yours? I thought “the world” would run out of oil? And all of a sudden you are promoting that “the world” will continue to use it!

Make up your mind, dummy.

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:09 pm 



Clogg

Sorry..Its page 7 ..Its literally the first page though after the glossary..You obviously are not even reading it because you dont want your fantasy destroyed!

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:11 pm 



Clogg

That UC davis study predicts would peak oil will happen around 2020..And all reserves will be gone by 2041..But that doesn’t really matter its not about running out..its about running short and if we run short we can’t grow global GDP and the global economy will collapse.

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:13 pm 



Clogg

stop trying to gaslight you con man! You are not clever and you are a fucking loser with no girlfriend and no pussy ever! That is why you have became a nazi! Misery loves company!

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:22 pm 



Sorry..Its page 7

Wow, he says “sorry”. Rudimentary decency after all.

It doesn’t say 1%, although the fraction is tiny, which nobody denies. Recently I have posted evidence that it is more likely at least 2%. But far more important are the growth rates and price decay.

The first cars drove around 1900. It lasted 60 years until larges groups owned one.

Won’t be different with renewable energy. Will take many decades for “the world” to implement, for Europe 2-3 decades.

MASTERMIND on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:33 pm 



Clogg

Fine clogg two percent..Wake me up when its at 50…

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:44 pm 



“13% primary energy in the EU is renewable:”

2.4% wind and solar CON artist

https://tinyurl.com/ycefafyk

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:46 pm 



“Should be 35% primary energy by 2030.”

“Should be” don’t mean shit from a CON artist as in “now” today.

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 12:47 pm 



“And remember: the most important “source of energy” is conservation and efficiency.”

These are already at diminishing returns and behavior is showing little change.

Cloggie on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 1:04 pm 



http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=t2020_31&plugin=1

One year further down the line:

the figure is now 17% primary energy.
Target 2020: 20%
Target 2030: 35%

And most of the increase will be from wind and solar.

But more important than these projections are the growth rates:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/09/new-energy-europe-renewable-sources-2016

“Almost 90% of new power in Europe from renewable sources in 2016”

This is THE crucial fact. Do this for 3 decades and you have your renewable energy base.

But collapsenik Davy doesn’t believe in the future, defines himself as such and will get the future he professes: none. Talk yourself in the grave Dave, fine with me.

Davy on Sat, 27th Jan 2018 1:28 pm 



Con artist nedernazi using subterfuge as usual.

Now as in today primary energy from solar and wind is 2.4%. Spit is out neder and tell us the truth.
https://tinyurl.com/ycefafyk

Cloggie on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 2:58 am 



Now as in today primary energy from solar and wind is 2.4%. Spit is out neder and tell us the truth.

Davy has the typical hasty American attitude: “if it doesn’t work now, it will never work”. That’s the same reason why that plastic empire of his, based on mass murder and lies, won’t last another 1-2 decades.

In the middle ages it took on average 100 years for small communities to build a magnificent cathedral. Nobody whined after three months that it wouldn’t work.

As I said earlier: the first cars appeared on the roads in Europe and America around 1900. It lasted 60-80 years before a large share of the population owned one.

Regarding wind and solar… only since recently wind and solar have become price competitive. Before that wind energy development was done, not out of profit (the only motive most Americans have), but out of a vision for the future (Denmark, Germany).

So far, wind development has been done on a per turbine basis. Meanwhile, since a few years, construction technology has advanced to the level that entire offshore wind-parks of hundreds of turbines can be rolled out in a matter of 3 months:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/05/09/the-giants-of-a-new-energy-age/

For a self-professed economy man, Davy has remarkable little understanding of (exponential) growth. He can’t read the signs of a new technology picking up.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/feb/09/new-energy-europe-renewable-sources-2016

Nobody in Europe, apart from the populists, doubts that the energy future will be 100% renewable.

But Davy has no vision other than collapse. Davy has grudgingly accepted that his country is going to be a third world country, pretends that he likes it (“I like brown people”) and is adapting himself to third world standards, like being busy with goat shit all day, like your average Bantu.

Davy’s hero is Chief Seattle, not Mozart, Maxwell, Rembrandt, Voltaire or hundreds of other great European achievers. Davy is getting the society he deserves: a third world society. He doesn’t have the gravitas and seriousness to carry any other society. Davy has no roots. He is even ashamed of being white. Accuses Europeans of all imaginable wrong-doings, in line with his (((1%-overclass))), without acknowledging all the good things European civilization has brought and he himself is using all day. Davy is the quintessential loser. I’m lacking the worlds to express my contempt for traitors and losers like davy and millimind.

Davy on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 3:29 am 



“Davy has the typical hasty American attitude: “if it doesn’t work now, it will never work”. That’s the same reason why that plastic empire of his, based on mass murder and lies, won’t last another 1-2 decades. In the middle ages it took on average 100 years for small communities to build a magnificent cathedral. Nobody whined after three months that it wouldn’t work.”
That was a long winded way of saying you screwed up the numbers. I think I caught you in the act of deceptions or was it a lie? You’re a pretty slimy dude so I think it was more of your lies. I am proud of Europe and glad they are doing what they are doing. It is you I am disgusted with. I can’t stand people who think their shit don’t stink like you, billyT, and grehggieT. The three board losers.

“For a self-professed economy man, Davy has remarkable little understanding of (exponential) growth. He can’t read the signs of a new technology picking up.”
Well nedernazi, exponential growth has to be paid for and also when dealing with energy there are systematic cost. You have not figured storage out as in commercially applicably now as in today. All this new technology is great but let’s see the cost numbers when you reach more penetration. You have done little with transport. Your lofty goals are not being met. Like I said I admire Europe but you are disgusting deception artist peddling self-advancement not facts.

“Nobody in Europe, apart from the populists, doubts that the energy future will be 100% renewable”
PURE BS

“But Davy has no vision other than collapse. Davy has grudgingly accepted that his country is going to be a third world country, pretends that he likes it (“I like brown people”) and is adapting himself to third world standards, like being busy with goat shit all day, like your average Bantu.”
I am a realist and honest and I am exploring what appears to be a collapse process. That is being academic. You on the other hand are like billyT peddling an emotional agenda that relates to jealousy and hatred. You feel ashamed of your past and longing for a fantasy future of greatness like Nederland was 200 years ago and will never be again. No wonder the history revisions out of you, look how far your little country has fallen.

“Davy’s hero is Chief Seattle”
Don’t really have heroes anymore, nedernazi. I admire the Native Americans and the way they live with the land and themselves. Europeans destroyed all that in and exploitation and subjugation of people into slavery.

“Davy has no roots. He is even ashamed of being white.”
Nope nedernazi, I am just not a racist pig who is insecure with being white. I am human and people of color are human. I have friends and acquaintances that are people of color. I don’t live a lie like you that people of color are subhuman. These people are good people and successful.

“without acknowledging all the good things European civilization has brought and he himself is using all day.”
Well it is hard to have a balanced conversation with people like you and billyT peddling an agenda of hate and lies. If you want me to talk nice about Europe stop you hate agenda for my people and my country.

“Davy is the quintessential loser. I’m lacking the worlds to express my contempt for traitors and losers like davy”
A poor southern army soldier was interviewed after capture by the Union army and was asked “why are you fighting us you don’t have slaves” He said “because you are down here”. Nedernazi, you are hating and attacking me daily so that is why I am in your face, looser. You have come to me with your hate. Expect me to fight your lying ass daily. You better be on top of your numbers and facts because when you are not I will neuter your pathetic ass.

Mad Kat on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 4:01 am 



Cloggie, Davy’s favorite word now is “neuter”. Maybe it is his sexual condition? Or mental? Or…?

He gets rabid when you say your location is better than his. Or point out what a shithole country he lives in. A murderous, evil, immoral, corrupt, innocent child’s blood soaked country where every gallon of gas he pumps has innocent baby’s blood in it. Must be difficult to support that dying empire as the truth becomes more and more obvious to the rest of the world just what a pile of shit it is. Must be his supposed 1%er upbringing. Greed is hard to put down.

Davy on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 4:16 am 



“Cloggie, Davy’s favorite word now is “neuter”. Maybe it is his sexual condition? Or mental? Or…?”
LMFAO, IT IS WORKING

“He gets rabid when you say your location is better than his. Or point out what a shithole country he lives in. A murderous, evil, immoral, corrupt, innocent child’s blood soaked country where every gallon of gas.”
Wow, billyT, pour on the drama make it is sound so bad. Its struggle to find the words for how dramatically bad it is. I think it is more like I am simply neutering an unbalanced agenda of hate. It is too bad because this is an American critical forum that would achieve so much more if rabidly anti-American agenda peddlers didn’t disturb the balance with disrespect and lies. If we could actually have responsible discussions about what is wrong with US culture and policy and then have proposals for what to do. This would be admirable and draw more people here. Instead we have disgusting old white men pushing their agenda of hate to cover up their failed lives.

Cloggie on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 4:53 am 



Now as in today primary energy from solar and wind is 2.4%. Spit is out neder and tell us the truth.

Everybody is talking about wind and solar in relation to renewable energy.

But space heating consumes a far larger share of a households energy budget than electricity. In Holland for instance, with a very temperate climate, something like 25% electricity and 75% space heating (with natural gas, the extraction of which causes earth quakes and hence need to be phased out).

With a heat pump you can slash fossil fuel consumption for space heating with 50-70% and replace it with (renewable) electricity. For something like 6,000 euro you can drill two 85 meter deep bore holes that can serve as the cold side (12 centigrades) for 50 years or more (that’s 120 euro per year, excluding interest). The drilling can be done in one day with a crew of two men and not too complex equipment:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2018/01/27/ground-drilling-vertical-heat-exchanger-for-heat-pump/

The pipe in the borehole will function as a heat-exchanger with COP-values of 2 or higher.

In countries in Western Europe you can easily survive with only the living room heated and the rest not, like was common before 1960, when there was no central heating. Out of principal and energy-awareness I still never heat the kitchen, hall, shower or bedroom. In that case a single borehole would suffice. If you would install a large district heating heat pump and a few deeper bore holes, cost would be cut accordingly.

The (affordable) technology exists and will be more affordable in the future; what needs to change is behavior and investment patterns.

Davy on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 5:03 am 



“With a heat pump you can slash fossil fuel consumption for space heating with 50-70%”
Compared to what? Another empty comparison by the king of empty. I have a wood boiler that has a pump and blower fan that get power from my solar system that has your heat pump beat. My muscle power gets the wood.

“For something like 6,000 euro you can drill two 85 meter deep bore holes”
BS, drilling holes that deep in pricy Europe is double that cost I imagine. Millions of boreholes are problematic for ground water resources.

“The (affordable) technology exists and will be more affordable in the future; what needs to change is behavior and investment patterns.”
Some of the technology gets more expensive all the time. Efficiency is hitting diminishing returns. We need to change behaviors and one of those behaviors needing change is unrealistic techno peddling. There is more to figuring out our energy problems than hype.

Cloggie on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 5:38 am 



Compared to what?

With the old situation of course, heating with natural gas.

Millions of boreholes are problematic for ground water resources

Why is that? We are talking about a closed system here. There is no fluid exchange with the ground water. Just heat is extracted. Meanwhile 2% of the households in Holland have a heat pump for space heating purposes. In 1960, when Holland was much less affluent than today, we had a nation-wide natural gas-network set up in a matter of 10 years. I don’t see why every street can’t have a few boreholes in a matter of 3 decades or (far) less.

We need to change behaviors and one of those behaviors needing change is unrealistic techno peddling.

But you are not going to propose HOW we should change, right? Your method, playing the prepper-hobbyist with several hundreds of thousand in the bank, is unattainable for the masses. Talking about empty. And in between “planning for population reduction back to 1 billion”, a sinister euphemism for letting a grand die-off happen.

But that’s not going to happen anyway. The peak-oil movement was wrong about everything and still is. In as much there is anything of a movement left in the first place. Even Heinberg is “peddling” 100% renewable energy these days.

Millimind should be put in a museum of archeology, as the peak oil fossil that he is.

Davy on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 6:02 am 



“With the old situation of course, heating with natural gas.”
Good we got neder to spit that out. I still have not seen the cost analysis from the neder just talk. I think much would depend on the cost of the gas or electricity. You then have the depreciation and amortization of the high initial cost of heat pumps. I wonder after all this how much better these heat pumps would be? Yet, neder just tells us he knows it is better and we should trust him.

“Why is that? We are talking about a closed system here. There is no fluid exchange with the ground water.”
Until someone screws up and in the case of millions of bore holes a certain percent will.

“But you are not going to propose HOW we should change, right?”
I have proposed many changes and they are documented here on this forum go find them google brat. One behavior that needs to be moderated is techno peddling without substance (a neder specialty).

“And in between “planning for population reduction back to 1 billion”, a sinister euphemism for letting a grand die-off happen.”
I am not in any position to plan anything. I am just talking the science for people to get honest about. I am not telling the future like the neder does. I am showing the variables involved with the future. There is a big difference between a self-proclaimed fantasy future based on shoddy science and history revisions and presenting possibilities from known science.

“The peak-oil movement was wrong about everything and still is. In as much there is anything of a movement left in the first place. Even Heinberg is “peddling” 100% renewable energy these days.”
Peak oil is alive and well and all we have to do is wait on the next financial/economic crisis for all this high dollar new energy systems and resources to be paid for. Europe’s renewable future may stop dead in its tracks once a crisis hits. Fracking may be turned on its head. The ME may fold under its weight of all those high social costs. Yet, for the nedernazi these inconvenient facts of life that are science based are always argued away as insignificant. Neder uses science as needed. Science is on a “need to know basis” for nedernazi. When the science looks bad neder explains it away or uses deception. The neder is always in a fantasy future works. FRAUD

Boat on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 6:12 am 



Clog,

Doomers are so wrapped up with the idea of a crash they just ignore the longer trends. Shorter term nat gas is the winner followed by renewables. In a few years it will be renewables followed by nat gas
One trend no one is talking about is the huge jump in fuel prices that takes place in 2020. Sulfer is cut way back for bunker fuels. Looks like refineries and shipping are not prepared.

Davy on Sun, 28th Jan 2018 6:14 am 



boat,

Techno optimist are so wrapped up with the idea of affluence they just ignore the longer trends.