Oil Prices Rise on Plane Crash in Ukraine

83 Comments on "Oil Prices Rise on Plane Crash in Ukraine"

Plantagenet on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 8:35 pm 



The Russian rebels in Ukraine have added 286 innocent victims to their murder toll. Putin is the madman who gave the anti-aircraft missiles to the Russian killers in eastern Ukraine

Makati1 on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 8:44 pm 



Plant, it is more likely that the American sponsored NAZI rebels did it on orders from DC. The news reported that it was flying at 30,000+ feet when it was hit. That takes a heavy guided missile to hit a plane at 6 miles up. Russians would have no reason to take down a civilian airliner, but it is just what the DC Mafia needs to start their war. “… “I’ve had multiple people tell me they think the U.S. is going to retaliate.” …”

As for the WSJ report, all they care about is money.

bobinget on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 8:59 pm 



Prices settled back to where they were weeks ago.

The next shoe to drop will be US sanctions naming
Russian OIL companies denying access to US banking.
WE here can visualize currency shifts accelerate faster then permafrost melt. The ‘accidental’ downing of a civilian passenger jet by Russian sponsored rebels will have after-burn . Europeans leaders jerked back into reality of war will take serious measures (sanctions) against Russia. Envision another major money crisis.
Europeans are touting the euro to replace USD.

I’m going to stick it out but expect a extremely rocky road to Wall Street and back to Main Street.

Like all wars, we are beginning to realize, this one won’t be settled in a few week or months.
‘The Syrian Proxy Civil’ War is now in it’s fourth year.

ISIS is still holding almost all the blitzkriegs Syrian and Iraqi territory and taking recruits from every corner.

For every Hamas fighter killed it’s safe to say dozens more are converted from simply disliking Israel to proactively hating Israel. Israel’s incursion, invasion into Gaza makes this the tenth war in Israel’s short life.

Analogous to Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Hamas will go underground and like WW/2 Ghetto imprisoned Polish Jews will strike again and again at their oppressor. By losing and almost but not quite being wiped out Hamas humiliates Israel till its current right wing government falls.

There is F all the west can or will do to mend the minds of religious nut cases. We must include the Jewish State of Israel who has inserted itself as jailer to this clusterfuck of crazies.
The US can’t be seen harming Sunnis any more then we can withdraw support from Saudi Arabia.

Davy on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 9:05 pm 



Pretty obvious the Russian got messy wit their proxy forces in Ukraine. Those boys were getting cocky with all the Ukrainian aircraft shot down. I imagine the boys were all pumped up on vodka and saw a nice opportunity. See Putt your adventures do cost money and this time not only money but your pride.

dissident on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 9:28 pm 



Killing civilians by the hundred in eastern Ukraine is a non-issue. But a downed airliner is an epic event… All human lives are precious. Not just the lives of NATO citizens and their proxies.

Interesting how “everyone knows” who did it and for what reason. The rebels decided to give their enemies propaganda gold just when they were succeeding in defeating the regime campaign in the east (cf. the destruction of the 5,000 strong regime force in the pocket to the south of Donetsk-Lugansk.)

Davy on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 9:32 pm 



Art, I understand the majority of the passengers were Dutch. My sympathies for you and your country. I hope none of the victims were friends or family.

Arthur on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 10:15 pm 



Thanks Davy, but for me it does not matter too much if innocents are Dutch, American or others.

It is important though to not jump to conclusions here, like Plant does and get carried away by blaming that party one dislikes most.

I don’t see what interest Ukr gov, Rus gov or rebels have in downing the malaysian plane with mainky Dutch tourists.

Conclusion: Either rebels downed plane by mistake or false flag.

Everybody talks about missile, but it could also be a bomb a la Lockerbie. Saw video of the moment of the crash with huge fireball, indicating that the plane was not on fire in the air and that a lot of fuel was still in the plane, which indicates a bomb. A missile would have splintered the plane up in the skies, causing debries scattered over many miles, where in reality the plane was largely in one piece when it crashed.

Northwest Resident on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 10:16 pm 



What I wonder is, was it a mistake on the part of whoever did it, thinking perhaps they were shooting at a military plane, or was it an intentional downing of a civilian aircraft? I read over on Zerohedge a few moments ago that the plane was diverted onto a flight path that it wouldn’t normally have been on — whether that is true or not I don’t know. I wouldn’t recommend flying on Malaysia Airlines for a while as they seem to be on a bad luck streak. It is a tragedy for all concerned.

Makati1 on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 10:45 pm 



FYI: Views OUTSIDE the MSM Iron Curtain:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airliner-crashes-in-east-ukraine-near-russian-border-over-280-people-on-board/5391825

“…At the same time, Anton Geraschenko said on his Facebook page that the plane was targeted from the air defense missile complex “Buk”.

RIA Novosti is citing its source who said that Kiev indeed deployed “Buk” in the Donetsk region.

“According to the system of objective control, “Buk” division of the armed forces of Ukraine was relocated to Donetsk region on Wednesday. Now in Kharkov another division is being prepared,” the source said.

The sources stressed that aircraft flying at an altitude of over 10 kilometers can only be targeted by C-300 class weapons or ‘Buk”…”

Arthur on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 10:47 pm 



Every rebel with an iphone and a stupid 2$ flightradar app can see the plane coming… from Kiev. The FAA had issued regulations not to fly in that area, but this flying Lusitania did so anyway. In case of the Lusitania it took hundred years before the truth finally surfaced. Expect this incident to be used by the west to stoke the flames of conflict with Russia, regardless who did this.

Makati1 on Thu, 17th Jul 2014 11:47 pm 



He said…she said…

http://thebricspost.com/putin-blames-ukraine-for-downed-malaysian-airliner/#.U8ilSbGofd4

“… The source said US military analysts were trying to determine the missile’s trajectory. Washington says it is sending crash experts to eastern Ukraine. …”

WOW! And I bet they will be an unbiased judge? LMAO! The wolves are to judge the sheep. Better to send in a group from … oh, that’s right, the West is the only real part of the world these days. No-one else exists except as slaves to plunder. No one else tells the “truth”…

Makati1 on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:09 am 



It just gets better…

“… So perhaps before coming to “certain” conclusion about the involvement of this rebel or that, the key questions one should ask before casting blame, is why did the pilot divert from his usual flight plan, why did he fly above restricted airspace, and just what, if any instructions, did Kiev air control give the pilot in the minutes before the tragic explosion? …”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/was-flight-mh-17-diverted-over-restricted-airspace

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 3:06 am 



Well, thank God the black-box is in Moscow and the crash site in rebel held territory. So let Russian and American and Dutch experts work side by side to investigate this. Should be a piece of cake to determine if this was caused by a bomb or misslle. At least we have a wreck, in contrast to F93 (a plane that clearly was shot down, by a pilot called Erib Gibney of the happy hooligans squadron, with debris scattered over many miles).lol

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 3:38 am 



Here is how a crash site looks like for a plane destroyed by a missile (F93, 9/11): there is no plane:

http://www.prepper-resources.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/sep-11-f93.jpg

In contrast go to google images and type mh17 crash site and lockerbie crash site resp. to verify that in both cases all parts are still there: wings, rump, turbines, luggage, corpses. That’s because in all likelyhood, both planes were destroyed by a bomb, causing a part of the plane to break off and the other part to crash were it did.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 3:52 am 



Come to think of it…. the flightradar app clearly indicates for every plane origin, destination, carrier, in other words, rebels mistakenly misidentifying the plane is unlikely. Everybody involved must have known the identity of the plane.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 4:42 am 



Smart article by the Canadian lefties of globalresearch:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/malaysian-airlines-flight-mh17-downed-over-warzone-ukraine-who-was-behind-it-cui-bono/5391840

They are hypothesising about a link between the rather desperate military position of Ukr gov forces in the east and the mh17 case.

They correctly identify that Russia and rebels have absolutely nothing to gain from this desaster, unlike Washington and NATO proxy Kiev, who could have been tempted to stage this incident, just like the British did with the Lusitania, to create the pretext for US war entry during WW1 (the Balfour deal was the real reason). The very fact that figures like Strobe Talbot and Julia Ioffe were immediately howling for conflict with Russia without proof that Russia was actually behind it, just like Jerome Hauer immediately put the blame on bin Laden for 9/11 within hours after the event, should give some indication where to look for, for possible suspects.

theedrich on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 4:56 am 



Although the U.S. has a long history of using false-flag incidents and Pearl-Harbor-like ensnarements of other nations in order to go to war, on the face of it, it would seem that Putin and puppets are the ones in fact responsible in this particular mass murder.  The Russians have never had any serious respect for human life and seem to enjoy killing for killing’s sake.  Communism under Stalin was simply one excuse, when tens of millions were liquidated outside of war in order to impose the workers’ paradise.  They have many other such excuses.  The current tsarist state just wants the world to know what will “accidentally” happen to anyone who trespasses on “its” territory.  It is only to be expected that Vlad would blame it on the Ukrainians, who themselves have suffered horribly from the Russians over the past century.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 5:16 am 



“Although the U.S. has a long history of using false-flag incidents and Pearl-Harbor-like ensnarements of other nations in order to go to war, on the face of it,”

But not this time, right?

” it would seem that Putin and puppets are the ones in fact responsible in this particular mass murder. ”

Would seem? That’s all you got?

“The Russians have never had any serious respect for human life and seem to enjoy killing for killing’s sake. Communism under Stalin was simply one excuse, when tens of millions were liquidated outside of war in order to impose the workers’ paradise.”

You are ignoring that it were the Russians themselves being the largest victims of the bolshevik regime, who were not Russian at all, neither was the mastermind of the ‘workers paradise’ Karl Marx.

http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.530857

lobodomar on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 5:17 am 



It all indicates Putin’s plane was the target. It was coming back from Brazil (brics summit) and its route intersected with the downed plane half an hour before the downing. Both planes are striped red and blue in a very similar fashion.

Davy on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 5:29 am 



Mak, did you wake up to a wet dream? It seems so because you get so excited and satisfied when a tragedy like this happens. I am sure you have genuine remorse for the victims.

Art, I am not taking sides here. The nature of a conflict like this one is a fool’s game to judge. I doubt Kiev meant for this civilian airliner to come down for propaganda. It is most likely an accidental incident by the rebels. The rebels have the case for shooting down aircraft in that area being targets of the Ukraine air force. You act like everyone should have known that was a civilian aircraft but it is really easy to make a mistake. I know I was a private pilot for 10 years. Your Iphone ap is a good tasty bit but in reality this situation is like hunting when you see a deer and in your mind it is a big buck when in reality it is a doe. It is pretty negligent of the airline for even flying over that region with a simmering war going on “WITH” aircraft being shot down. Both countries are to blame for this war. Putt is to blame for his latest adventure “right or wrong” he still has to take responsibility for his sperm impregnating this Russian offspring. As for the US well we know they are up to no good there but with the other side up to no good can you blame them. This is a classic case of the messy, ugly, and stinky bullshit of war. You can trade blame all you want and if you enjoy it there is more to come. Dissident made a good point that this is a typical nonevent when place in the context of the other killings. How do you value lives? Are people on planes are worth 3 on the ground?(bullshit)! What kind of friggen thinking is that? The real issue in my mind is the escalation factor to the systematic risks of a wider war. Folks like it or not BAU is in extreme danger now of a break to a lower level of complexity and economic activity. That is where the real casualty list will be. Maybe it is just as well because I mentioned in a post yesterday there is just no good time to leave your wife. If we must power down as Steve mentioned yesterday, maybe now is the right time. I am just a little skittish once this shit start to motion it all over folks so fasten your seat belts.

Davy on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 6:00 am 



Lobo, that is interesting! It is just as likely a conspiracy as it is not. But let’s not rule out a good ole “F*CKUP”. Many time the F’s are the result of several errors like airlines being idiots being in that airspace, rebels with itchy trigger fingers, and a Kiev beast bombing civilians as well as soldiers. Good ole F**ck job by all involved. But Lobo, Putt and his minions are about as smart as they come. Do you think he would fly over the Eastern Ukraine? As kids say these days “NOT”.

lobodomar on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 6:28 am 



Who said Putin overflew Ucraine? Their trajectories intersected at Warsaw (Poland). But hey what do I know, I’m just a crazy conspiracist 8)

Perk Earl on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 10:39 am 



If someone had driven a passenger car through the battle of the bulge, no one would have been surprised if it got blown up, but a passenger plane flies through war zone airspace in which other planes have recently been shot down and people are surprised when it comes crashing down?! I would have been shocked if it flew through without a scratch.

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:12 am 



I think it was stupid to have civilian airliners in a war zone where both parties have been reported to be in control of BUKs. AP reported a while back that the defense forces of Novorossiya had at least one unit taken from former Ukrainian armed forces weapons depots. And there were reports on Wednesday of Kiev deploying BUK units nearby on Wednesday.
I am with Arthur on this one, this was either a mistake by the self defense forces in Novorossiya or a mistake or false flag operation on the part of Kiev. And, whatever it was the USA will use it against Russia.
I am afraid that I have been expecting a big false flag operation on the part of Kiev for weeks and I am afraid this may be it. It is exactly the kind of thing I expected and I hope I am wrong, but I think the end goal here is to destroy Russia.

Northwest Resident on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:18 am 



“I think the end goal here is to destroy Russia.”

JuanP, that is truly a horrifying thought. But as you know, it wouldn’t be the first country that “The West” moved into with full force in order to take over the oil fields.

Still, I just don’t see how it could happen. Russia is unconquerable, from my point of view. The Russian people will fight to the death, every one of them, and they have their own energy supply and natural resources — and lots and lots of friends.

If the goal truly is to destroy Russia, then this whole collapse thing is going to be a whole lot nastier than I have imagined up to this point.

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:22 am 



Flight MH17 was clearly on a flight path that was not used by Malaysian Airlines for four days prior to this incident. All of their previous flights were hundreds of kilometres to the south.

Reports are coming out that the airliner was being escorted by two Ukrainian fighter jets.

Within minutes of the incident almost every news agency worldwide was reporting that the airliner was shot down by a missile. Not any missile, but a Soviet era BUK missile system.

A missile attack would in all likelihood have ignited the jet fuel on board the airliner causing a massive fireball. Much of the aircraft would have been incinerated long before it descended 33,000 feet to the ground.

During the same time period, Israel launched a full scale ground, air, and sea offensive on Gaza.

Russian rebels have absolutely no interest in an all out ‘western’ offensive.

Russia has no interest in an all out ‘western’ offensive.

The ‘western’ lead, and installed puppet government in Kiev does.

The first thing lost in War, is the truth.

The truth may never be known.

My condolences to all that have lost friends, family, and loved ones in this tragic incident. May they rest in peace.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:45 am 



Here is an American source that claims that the flight path of mh17 deviated from the 10 previous flight paths, implicating that Ukrainian flight control diverted the plane on purpose towards the war zone, to shoot it there by Ukr planes and blame rebels/Russia for it. Obviously in close coordinations with the Strobe Talbots and Nulands of this world to kickoff WW3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXQ_8_KUT3w

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:51 am 



Hoppa, here a Dutch source, reporting that Ukrainian Ukrainian secret service confiscated the transcript of communications between Ukr flight control and mh17.

http://www.powned.tv/nieuws/binnenland/2014/07/opnames_luchtverkeersleiders_b.html

Not difficult to come up with an hypothesis what was so urgent to mask… last minute diversion of flight path, perhaps?

Davy on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:58 am 



Guys do you really think these folks in your scenario can be that stupid knowing full well how difficult a false flag is? I mean lies are either well done or they backfire very badly. I am leaning towards mistake by either side. I cannot rule out your scenario and I agree the DC mafia will do the full court propaganda press either way. In any case as long as there is any ambiguity it will be a negative for Russia. It is important for the facts to come out for Russia if they and their offspring are innocent. Kiev has every reason to keep this nebulous.

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 11:59 am 



NWR, Here’s a conspiracy for you.
We don’t want to invade, occupy or conquer Russia, but I believe there are elements within the US government that want to weaken and, ultimately, break Russia into, say, four or five pieces, and try to set them against each other, like we did in Iraq, for example. That is what Ukraine is mostly about.
The USA will try to weaken and break any and all countries that openly defy us, and Russia is one of the few left and a key piece of the puzzle, because they are big and have a lot of nukes. Splitting Europe from Russia makes a lot of sense to some of the paranoids in the USA’s government, no matter how much the majority ofthe population might disagree with this being a good idea.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:07 pm 



JuanP, that is indeed the gameplan. Washington wants to organize the equivalent of EuroMaidan in the streets of Moscow and has a plethora of NGOs at its disposal. Thats what Paul Craig Roberts diagnosed as well.

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/05/02/washington-intends-russias-demise-paul-craig-roberts/

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:15 pm 



You still think that the NWO will fail Arthur? From my vantage, everything is still going as planned.

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:23 pm 



Art, What a high stakes game this is! If I were the Russians I would send those NGOs packing ASAP. Putin seems to be quite popular in Russia, though, and I believe he’ll Tiananmen the people if things got to that and he feels he has to do it to stay in power and keep Russia safe.
The USA approves of Ukraine shelling and bombing their people, but can you imagine the horrified reaction if the Russians killed some people in the Kremlin Square. Now, that, would be an outrage!

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:24 pm 



NWR,

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Joseph Goebbels, Reich Minister of Propaganda, Nazi Germany

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:27 pm 



One minute old PCR piece:

http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/17/sanctions-airliners-paul-craig-roberts/

Quotes:

The appearance of a Washington operation is present. All the warmongers were ready on cue. US Vice President Joe Biden declared that the airliner was “blown out of the sky.” It was “not an accident.” Why would a person without an agenda be so declarative prior to having any information? Clearly, Biden was not implying that it was Kiev that blew the airliner out of the sky. Biden was at work in advance of the evidence blaming Russia. Indeed, the way Washington operates, it will pile on blame until it needs no evidence.
Senator John McCain jumped on the supposition that there were US citizens aboard to call for punitive actions against Russia before the passenger list and the cause of the airliner’s fate are known.

The “investigation” is being conducted by Washington’s puppet regime in Kiev. I think we already know what the conclusion will be.

There is no conceivable motive for separatists to shoot down an airliner, but Washington did have a motive–to frame-up Russia–and possibly a second motive.

Russia seems hypnotized by the West and motivated to be included as a part of the West. This desire for acceptance plays into Washington’s hands. Russia does not need the West, but Europe needs Russia. One option for Russia is to tend to Russian interests and wait for Europe to come courting.

……………….
PCR for president!!

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:35 pm 



Greg, yes it will fail. The very fact that we can have a global discussion is an indication of that, for the first time In world history we have a free ‘press’, sidelining THE nwo weapon, the media.

And then there is Russia and China who fully realise what the game plan is.

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/167289/nanjing-jewish-studies

When the US can’t even beat Vietnam, Afghanistan or Iraq, what chances do they have against a real adversary?

In the Count Dracula story, Dracula had to be back in his coffin before dawn, otherwise he would die. With the internet around the sun never sets again for Count ZOG.lol

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:36 pm 



I just came up with another possible explanation. This could have been an act of desperation on the part of Novorossiya’s anti Kiev forces, to try and escalate the situation and force Russia to intervene on their behalf at some point because they feel cornered. This wouldn’t have been a smart idea. I hope it was an accident, but we’ll most likely never know the truth.

Nony on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:44 pm 



Lot of conspiracy mindsets here. You all are worse than moon hoax believing climate deniers. Sheesh…if you are 911 truthers, then why should I take your peak oil predictions seriously?

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:50 pm 



Nony,

Plenty of conspiracy theories to go around, unfortunately most people have fallen for the ‘official’ ones. Which, by the way, have been proven throughout history to be blatant propaganda and lies.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:53 pm 



Juan, the situation is desperate for Kiev, not the rebels. Here a video from Kiev tv showing the ansolute desperation of the Ukie forces:

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.nl/2014/07/ukraine-sitrep-july-17th-1555-utczulu.html

Apart from some neonazi fools, the Ukies are not really motivated to kill their countrymen on behalf of the kosher gang (Poroshenko, Yats, Klitschko and the gas princess) ruling Kiev today. The kicker is that the Novorossia population does NOT want to join Russia. What they want is a federal model a la Belgium, Canada and Switzerland.

The very fact that, say Greg is a Canadian anglophone, does make motivate him to strive to become an American.lol

So why should a Ukrainian Russian speaker want to become a member of the Russian federation? He does not want to, since he feels Ukrainian. He wants to see Russian accepted as one official language and a certain degree of autonomy and that’s it. This whole war is a farce and could be over once the winter sets in and there is nog gas.

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:57 pm 



Hillary Clinton on downed flight MH17:

“Who had the equipment? It’s obviously an anti-aircraft missile,” she said. “The Ukrainian government has been quick to blame it on terrorists, which is their name for the Russian insurgents, and there does seem to be some growing awareness that it probably had to be Russian insurgents.”

“If these separatists did have anti-aircraft missiles the weapons were probably supplied by Russia.”

“”if there is evidence linking Russia to this” — something we don’t yet have — then that should “inspire” Europe to tighten sanctions on Russia and reduce its dependency on Gazprom, the large Russian natural-gas supplier.”

Meanwhile, there is no evidence to support that a missile attack even occurred. At this point it is all pure speculation.

As Arthur posted already:

‘Indeed, the way Washington operates, it will pile on blame until it needs no evidence.’

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 12:58 pm 



Sorry, should be: does NOT motivate him…

Nony on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:13 pm 



The US did it to get more NG market for our LNG. See, fresh conspiracy theory! I’m here all week, folks. Don’t forget to tip your waiter. 😉

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:14 pm 



Art, I consider Ukraine a collapsing failed state, I know Kiev is deep in it.
Nony, Just having fun, you should try it. I always like considering all the possibilities.
Greg, I agree it could have been an accident or a bomb in the plane or something else altogether. It is also the second Malaysia Airlines jet involved in a major incident in a few months, probably a coincidence.
But the plane was likely shot down with a Soviet era BUK 300 fired from the Novorossiya region in Ukrainian territory. It was too far from Russia to have been shot from there, since those missiles can reach only 22km and the incident happened at 10 km or 33,000 feet elevation, standard airliners cruising altitude, and more than 40km from the border and the plane was heading East.

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:32 pm 



Juan,

My entire point is; It could have been an accident, it could have been a bomb, it could have been an air to air missile, it could have been a ground to air missile, and it could have been a Soviet era BUK 300 fired from the Novorossiya region in Ukrainian territory.

The fact that many American public officials are immediately pointing fingers to the latter should be disturbing. This in not how justice, freedom, and democracy should work. There is a thing called due process, and all attempts should be made to find the truth before the blame game begins.

If I were to speculate myself, I would guess that it was probably ‘pro Russian separatists’, and that it was probably a mistake, but speculation is not the truth. The fact that Washington is already calling for repercussions to Russia should speak volumes. The are alternate agendas being promoted here, before the facts have even been investigated.

J-Gav on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:37 pm 



Yeah, Hillary, “Reduce dependency on Russian gas!” Easier said than done!

JuanP – It could have been an accident but you’re right, we may never know. At that altitude though, you’d think even a nitwit might guess commercial airliner, assuming they realized that airspace was open to international flights.

Arthur – The situation is desperate for Kiev, the rebels and the Ukrainian population in general. Only the oligarchs are still smiling – and some of them out of the side of their twisted mouths.

Arthur on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:42 pm 



I don’t claim to own the truth either, it could indeed be a mistake on the side of the rebels, but if I have to guestimate I would suggest: a desperate manouver by the Ukies to divert the plane into the war zone, shoot it by a Ukie airforce plane to blame the rebels/Russia with the aim of creating the pretext for NATO intervention in the Ukraine, all coordinated with Washington.

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:46 pm 



Greg, I agree with your point and we’ll probably never find out the truth about what went on today. Facts are becoming increasingly irrelevant in this propaganda war. I agree that a mistake by the Eastern forces is the most likely cause and that is a perfect false flag operation, the one that you can easily blame on your enemy, but the timing is just perfect for Kiev and their backers, if their goal is to escalate and blame Russia, as seems to be. I have been expecting a big false flag operation in Ukraine for days and this just fits the shoe and is, therefore, extremely suspicious, IMHO.

GregT on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 1:58 pm 



Ya Juan,

I have also been expecting a false flag. My wife and I have discussed this at length. In instances such as this, I have learned to dig for other news lost in the ‘static’. I find it very coincidental that the Gaza invasion happened at the same time, by the same usual suspects. IMHO, there is a much bigger game being played here, and we are only seeing the individual moves on the chess board. Checkmate may be coming sooner than we realize. Time will tell…….

JuanP on Fri, 18th Jul 2014 2:29 pm 



Greg, I don’t believe in coincidences as a rule, but there’s always those messy exceptions. No certainty is possible in this mess, but this is sad news on many fronts no matter how you look at it.