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Page added on September 7, 2015
Kunstler: There Goes Europe
The desperate wish in what is loosely called the West to at least appear morally correct is unfortunately over-matched by the desperation of people fleeing unstable, overpopulated places outside the West, and it is a fiasco beyond even the events of the moment.
The refugee / immigrant crisis around the Mediterranean is a preview of a horror show to which there is no end in sight, and is certain to escalate. So anyone who indulges in fantasies about organizing an orderly, rational distribution of displaced persons for the current wave, is badly missing the point. Wave beyond wave awaits after the this one. And then what will the well-intentioned sentimentalists say? We wanted to do the right thing… we meant well… we cried when we saw the little boy dead on the beach….
Yes, the tragic intrusions of the US military in Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, and elsewhere have been reckless and stupid. But that is not the whole story. The desert nations of the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) have populations abnormally swollen by a century of oil-and-gas-based agriculture, really by the benefits of Modernity in general. Now that the oil age is chugging to an unruly crack-up, and Modernity with it, and the earth’s climate is doing wonky things, and the rich nations to the north have faked their finances to the point of bankruptcy, well, circumstances have changed.
In the years ahead, populations will be fleeing and shifting from many more unfavorable corners of the world. The pressures are mounting all over. Alas, the richer nations in which the fleeing poor aspire to gain a foothold, will also be contending with the disabling effects of a universal economic contraction — the winding down of the techno-industrial system and the global economy with it. That process has the potential to shatter political unions, overthrow established social orders, and provoke wars between the demoralized countries who still possess dangerous military hardware. At the least, it will produce economic conditions in Europe and North America probably worse than the Great Depression of the 1930s.
So, the idea that the nations currently bethinking themselves “rich” can take in, shelter, and employ the masses fleeing MENA (and elsewhere) is absurd. Somehow the people in charge, plus the intellectual classes who shape opinion and consensus, are going to have to arrive at some clear notion of limits and boundaries. It is actually happening in parts of Europe right now, extempore, where the immediate crisis is worst, for the moment in Italy, Greece, and Hungary — which first interned the refugees and then let them loose on the road to Vienna, probably only a way-station to Germany. Soon all nations across Europe will be agonizing, shucking, jiving, or improvising some sort of desperate response.
Among other confusions of policy and intention, the public “debate” so far does not make any distinction between true political refugees fleeing for their lives or economic migrants seeking to improve their prospects elsewhere. It is surely easy to empathize with both categories of persons, but that doesn’t mean you give up the control of your borders just to make yourself feel better. That is pretty much what has happened in the USA, where the Left, for political expediency, has deemed it indecent to call “illegal” immigrants what they are, and the Right has just been pusillanimous and hypocritical about it. Hence the unfiltered persona of Trump who, for all his titanic shortcomings, has at least managed to make his rivals look like the craven midgets they are.
Likewise, the rise of Marine LePen in France, Geert Wilders in Holland, and other parties seeking limits to immigration, perhaps even deportations. Personally, I reject the idea that it’s “racist” to want to preserve one’s national culture and character (especially in language), or to favor bona fide citizens for gainful employment. Europe has the additional obvious problem of an immigrant Islamic population overtly hostile to European culture and tradition. Why is it morally imperative for Europeans to countenance what amounts to low-grade warfare?
The situation that smoldered for decades is now exploding. Don’t expect to see any end to desperation and instability in MENA, but do expect new demographic crises out of other regions: Indonesia, Ukraine, Pakistan, West Africa, and Brazil, with its cratering economy. It’s not inconceivable that China might bust apart politically, with centrifugal consequences. The global economy is contracting. We have indeed attained the limits to growth. Cheap oil is bygone and the capital infrastructure we have won’t run on expensive oil — including the oil industry itself. New technology or further central bank legerdemain is not going to fix that. We’re in population overshoot and a scramble is underway to bail on the places that just can’t support the people who live there. National boundaries will be defended. Sentimentalists will have to step aside. History is not a bedtime story about bunnies and kittens.
96 Comments on "Kunstler: There Goes Europe"
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 3:22 pm
GregT@: “If you have the ability to do so claman, now would be a very good time to move.”
No way man, I stand my ground.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 3:37 pm
@apne: “Oh yeah, claman. They either run or fight. Same as any other animal. Same as it ever was.”
I found it a little difficult to really understand what you are pointing at. I guess you meen that human society is hieracal and the stronger and better individual/society wins.
In that case it is very interesting that the afghanistans (and the somalis) actually succeded in throwing out the americans, and before them the british and the russians.
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 3:52 pm
“In that case it is very interesting that the afghanistans (and the somalis) actually succeded in throwing out the americans, and before them the british and the russians.”
Why do you find that interesting? The stronger and better individual/societies won. Same as it ever was.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 4:46 pm
@greg , all rigth, you can then let that culture win, but i won’t.
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 5:39 pm
I’m not choosing sides claman, no one culture is better than any other. They all have good, and bad people.
Besides, the “winners” are usually the more brutal and ruthless ones. The ones that can murder more of the others.
Plantagenet on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 5:48 pm
@GregT
Your belief that “no one culture is better is better then any other” is very superficial.
For instance, what do you imagine are the redeeming cultural features of the Islamic culture of the Islamic State? Slavery? Destruction of non-Islamic historical sites? Beheadings?
Cheers!
onlooker on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 5:57 pm
If you look at the past P, you will find that Arabic/Islamic culture contributed much to the finer arts, to medicine, to food production etc. Demeaning a culture is never an objective exercise as all cultures have both positive and negative characteristics just like all people have both. That is what I believe Greg was getting at. What we can and should always condemn is the acts themselves.
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 5:59 pm
One of my best friends is Muslim plant, and he believes in an Islamic State. He has more culture than you are likely to ever have.
Slavery, destruction of historical sites, and beheadings, are not limited to Islam. Our ‘culture’ has a very long history of doing the same shit. We have progressed now though, instead of enslaving individuals, we enslave entire countries. Instead of beheadings we reduce towns and cities to rubble with smart bombs, and leave the inhabitants to suffer inhumanely. We still destroy cultural sites, as we always have. We just do it faster and more efficiently.
Cheers!
Plantagenet on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 6:22 pm
@onlooker
Your strange claim that criticism of IS practices like slavery, beheadings, and destruction of historic sites is “demeaning a culture” is beyond silly. There is a great deal more to Islamic culture than the institution of slavery.
@GregT
Your ignorance never ceases to amaze me. Of course your Muslim friend and many other Muslims believe in an Islamic state—thats what Sharia law is all about. But its possible to have Sharia law without evils like slavery or the destruction of historic sites.
Get it now?
CHEERS!
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 6:43 pm
Let’s see if Kunstler is singing the same tune when Israel started evacuating the non combatants. I’m sure those migrants will be more to Kunstlers liking.
Oh and btw there’s a difference between ‘giving up control of your borders’ and losing control.
The waves of unregulated mass migrants will it stop. They will only increase. Soon to be included in the migrant group is a bunch of Jews.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 7:50 pm
the new islamistic warefare slogan is: If you can’t beat them, outbreed them.
Actually thats an old one, but i think it comes in handy right now
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 7:58 pm
“But its possible to have Sharia law without evils like slavery or the destruction of historic sites.”
Correct planter. But it isn’t possible for you to have your life of jet setting around the globe without enslaving other groups of people, and a large part of that enslavement entails the destruction of their cultures and their historic sites. Iraq is a very good recent example of this, all so that you can have cheap gasoline.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:00 pm
@GregT : What country in the muhammedan world would you say is the closest to your ideals/goals. Just so that we can have an idea of where your are heading.
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:11 pm
@claman,
My ideals and goals are not reflected in any political or mainstream ideological movement on this planet. Where I have headed, and why I have gone there, should be of great interest to you, but you would rather “stand your ground”. We all choose the mountains that we wish to die on. Mine is surrounded by thousands of acres of wilderness.
apneaman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:11 pm
claman, how would anyone know unless they lived there?
apneaman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:33 pm
U.S. Drops Bombs; EU Gets Refugees & Blame. This Is Insane
“Starting in 2011 in Libya, the United States dropped bombs on Libya in order to replace its pro-Russian dictator, Muammar Gaddafi. The EU is now tearing itself apart with guilt-feelings at European nations’ responses to the refugee-crisis that was caused by this American bombing-campaign in Libya, and then by the one in Syria.
Europe has also received refugees from the American-sponsored bombing-campaign in eastern Ukraine (the bombing-campaign that the 2014 American-installed anti-Russian Ukrainian government calls an ‘Anti-Terrorist Operation,’ or ‘ATO,’ which labels the residents in that pro-Russian area — where the residents reject the February 2014 U.S. coup — as ‘Terrorists’ and thus as being suitable to be bombed, and even firebombed).
And yet, despite these millions of U.S.-caused refugees into Europe, European nations still permit U.S. troops to remain stationed on European soil decades after the entire reason for NATO’s very existence (which was protection of Europe against a communist invasion from the east) ended. (The Soviet Union’s equivalent Warsaw Pact had dissolved and ended in 1991, when the Soviet Union itself did — yet NATO continued on, and constantly touts ‘the Russian threat,’ just as it did the Soviet threat, as if there were no change when communism collapsed, as if the ideological reason for the Cold War had been fake all along. There is no justification whatsoever for «the New Cold War».) Russia is now responding to this new American-created hostility of Europeans against Russia, by its matching this newly transformed now anti-Russian NATO’s war-games against Russia, with similar Russian defensive maneuvers to prepare for an increasingly possible NATO invasion into Russia. ”
http://m.strategic-culture.org/news/2015/09/07/us-drops-bombs-eu-gets-refugees-and-blame-this-is-insane.html
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:44 pm
@apne : You may have a point there. But then again that would prevent us from having any point of view on anything that we didn’t know by personal experience. And that would be the death of every blogg on the internet. That could be a good thing though
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:49 pm
“that would prevent us from having any point of view on anything that we didn’t know by personal experience”
And if you have a point of view on anything that you didn’t know from personal experience, it would be someone else’s point of view that you have adopted. In other words, you are believing what somebody else is telling you, which is more often than not, driven by an agenda.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 9:56 pm
@apne: I agree completely that the middle east chaos is a work of US/GB and others. But that doesn’t change my mind about letting in more Mohammedans in Europe. I still think that:
“We can see how they (and their culture) has maneged a severe and predictable crisis, and now when it all goes south they are all going north.
We are not amused”
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 10:18 pm
@ gregT :”In other words, you are believing what somebody else is telling you, which is more often than not, driven by an agenda.”
Thats the way journalism works. Take it or leave it . We got nothing better
Makati1 on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 10:22 pm
Denial is still rampant on here, after all of the discussion and debate.
The population problem is being solved as we type. Many bacteria and virus becoming immune to drugs, hotter temps allowing southern diseases to move north with rapidity, increasing droughts, franken foods poisoning the consumers and making the weeds even more robust, obesity is spreading, plagues are returning, etc. And the final war is just hanging in the wings, waiting to make it appearance in the form of mushroom clouds over the world’s cities.
Whether we have a name for it or not, I am with apneaman. I am not necessarily enjoying watching the event unfold, but I am not regretting it. It has to happen. We set up all of the condition for it and now must pay the price, even if it is extinction in a very painful and bloody way.
GregT on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 10:25 pm
“We got nothing better”
We ‘got’ personal experience, and trust. If you trust your government, then you should believe what they are telling you. If you don’t trust them, you shouldn’t. If you trust the oligarchs that are controlling your government behind the scenes, as well as controlling your media, then you should believe them. If you don’t trust them, you should not.
Just because ‘we got nothing better’, does not mean that a person must believe what they are being told. Most of what is being reported in the MSM has been complete BS for a very long time now.
apneaman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 10:36 pm
claman, I live on the west coast of Canada and have no special fondness or allegiance to Europe and especially not GB. I’m more or less a spectator watching and commenting on the apes tearing themselves apart. With the exception of the last 70 years Europeans have spent most of their history warring on each other or kicking the crap out of weaker countries and robbing them blind, so fuck em. If we agree that we live in a interconnected globalized world and we agree that the only reason western powers have anything to do with the MENA region is because of oil, then there should be no reason to be surprised at the current complicated situation. Reap what you sow and all that.
I never said one should not have a point of view because they have not lived in those countries, my point of view is, is how can one know all that much without being immersed in a culture. I learned this from personal experience. Reading and listening only gets ya so far. I try and read history books written by non western historians and authors as well. Like this one on the crusades.
The Crusades Through Arab Eyes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crusades_Through_Arab_Eyes
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 11:10 pm
apne@ , Actually, that was the book that showed to me the huge vulnerability of the arab mind without a turkish or kurdish leadership. The arabs have no way of establishing a common goal, while the kurds or the turks have the force and discipline to make the arabs fall into line. Extremly good reading if you want to understand the arab situation today.
claman on Mon, 7th Sep 2015 11:46 pm
apne@ thanks for bringing it up. What i just wrote was my own conclusion, and not what the the author is saying.
If you want to know the roots of the middle east problems, this book is great.
I recommend it strongly
onlooker on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 12:10 am
Now that we are on the topic of culture bashing, look at Western culture responsible for being the nest of virulent capitalism and criminal banking practices. Of being where the “Empire”, the US has made a mockery of its historical moral claims of democracy and individual rights. Instead it has unleashed a relentless attack on the entire planet in the form of a overly aggressive military and foreign policy, in the form serving as an example of hyper-consumerism. let us not forget either letting the drug business become a multi-billion dollar business with its phony war on drugs. So if some wish to attack Islamic culture let us at least hold Western culture up to the light of day.
GregT on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 12:17 am
“the arab mind without a turkish or kurdish leadership”
Wow, that’s priceless claman. Kind of like the European mind, without a Russian or American leadership?
It really is no wonder why the world is so fucked up.
GregT on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 12:27 am
apnea,
As much as I have been agreement with your Ape analogy, I’m sorry to say that I have just downgraded our species to lower than apes. Calling humans apelike, is an insult to apes everywhere.
joke on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:04 am
The ‘crisis’ is nothing, a blip. All this happened in the media because Germany send word that it was temporarily opening it’s borders and allowing migrants in, thus was the scramble from Turkey to Germany. As we saw Isis keeps on going because they constantly replenish their troop numbers. They are getting the most committed troops from Europe but the heavy lifting is being done by all those poor idiots stuck between the choice of working in ISIS or begging in Turkey.
Third world countries have been following the idiotic belief that a bigger population implies a more powerful country. The result has in fact been massive poverty increases and people living on the margins. Millions of people with this attitude have been allowed into the EU in the last decade mainly because of greed, corporate and government interests wishing to depress labour costs. The result has been an odd situation where third world superstitious people’s seeking wealth are living peacefully with a Europe which has almost totally deChristianised and has been told that it must be liberal, not be ‘racist’ and must be tolerant of even the most extreme views put forward by the new third world cultures, this process has been going on since the 1950s, and the recent German moves are part of that story, not the coming peak oil story. Syria clearly was an effort to support Israel northern flank as it suffered an e embarrassing defeat and made them look like they are, weak. The idea was to get rid of Assad and stop the supply to hizbollah. But as we saw, the power vacuum created saw the hydra of ‘terrorism’ emerge.
None of us is in a position to predict what’s going to happen. There is no doubt though that European culture is going to change forever. Immigration into Europe has been going on for decades now because of the wealth effect of contraception European government have supported the reduction of indigenous Europeans and supported immigration to keep wages down and support the tax base. These policies combined with the peace created by the final settlement of Europe after ww2 (splitting most countries into different races and not allowing mixed nations) left only the mixed nations in perilous positions in Northern Ireland and the Balkans mainly, but they could also pay for very generous social welfare systems which left Europe with enough breathing space to recover. European men in pre-ww2 Europe could always find themselves hired put to thugs when legitimate work could not be found. This is still the case in most of the world and is seen as an option. It’s still the case in Europe today. ISIS can be seen as an expert in the area of exploitation. In a world of no social welfare, big families spread the effects of poverty amongst self – support groups and can be the difference between survival and death. In that context the individual is a cog in a wheel and must do his duty, it’s that energy which drives third world entrepreneurial culture and it’s this attitude and familial isolationism that western governments love so much. Run your restaurant, sell your electronics, buy a BMW or Mercedes Benz, pay your taxes, just don’t bother anyone. Sadly it’s this ‘cog’ culturalism and unquestioning, uncritical idealism that the third world cultures also possess that will alter Europe and drive it back 300yrs just as Peak oil comes along to confirm the third world narrative that ‘racist white europe’ doesn’t want to allow the poor brown man in to make a buck.
That ‘greedy white europe’ won’t share. I’m sorry but I disagree strongly. When the European safety net goes, and it’s under withering attack now, then people will turn to crime and all kinds of exploitive political activity simply to put food on their tables, and in nations where there are voting rights and nukes and weak armies, we are not creating a very stable future if something goes very wrong. The kinds of extremism that came out of pure capitalist Europe led to the gas chambers (a 9mth long programme btw), ISIS is nothing compared to the chaos that come out of a collapsing Europe. Right now Europe is mixed and stable because it has money, when that changes, God help them.
onlooker on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:04 am
Or better yet we are apes with a violent streak and an inordinate sense of pride.
apneaman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:36 am
Who Runs The Migrant Media Campaign And What Is Its Purpose?
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2015/09/who-runs-the-migrant-media-campaign-and-what-is-its-purpose.html
apneaman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:37 am
The Guardian: “bomb Assad and save the refugees”
http://off-guardian.org/2015/09/04/the-guardian-bomb-assad-and-save-the-refugees/
GregT on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:42 am
“The Guardian is currently providing us with a good example of what is often called the “problem-reaction-solution” method of controlling public discourse.”
My take exactly Apnea.
Onlooker: We? Some of us appear to have slightly different DNA? The mutant, less than apes.
onlooker on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:53 am
Thanks Ap, for the link to migrant media campaign. Yes certainly it is apparent what is “really” going on there. The proxy war between Russia and the West. US does not care of destabilization of Europe in fact it welcomes it to weaken Europe as an economic and political competitor and pave the way for more war in the ME to justify continued presence there and secure oil supplies. I think it is useful to keep in mind the overarching strategy of the main players on the world stage being that of the “Last man standing”
apneaman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 1:59 am
Here is one of the most blatant (and retarded) pieces of propaganda I have ever see. Sadly it works on the dumbed down masses, British in this case.
Blitz ‘em to hell EXCLUSIVE: Our boys await order to destroy IS in Syria
“Our Boys and Girls could strike a death blow to the heart of IS and relieve pressure on innocent civilians, if given the go-ahead by MPs.”
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6626148/Our-boys-await-order-to-attack-IS-in-Syria.html
And then there is this ugly American whore from a few months back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0w2ZS231BAQ
Oh yeah, we be going medieval in a big way.
apneaman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 2:12 am
Greece confirms US asked to close airspace to Syria-bound Russian aid flights
http://www.rt.com/news/314616-greece-request-airspace-russia/
apneaman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 3:40 am
onlooker, there is usually at least a couple of days delay for alternative media folks to come out with their analysis and critique every time the MSM goes on a carpet bombing propaganda sortie. I think most have seen at least one of the many videos exposing “the news” as nothing but talking heads reading a script from a main source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PStpvviPgxk
GregT on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 6:49 am
“US does not care of destabilization of Europe in fact it welcomes it to weaken Europe as an economic and political competitor and pave the way for more war in the ME to justify continued presence there and secure oil supplies.”
Not the US per se, but the globalist elite. They are still pursuing their NWO. The plan all along has been to create so much chaos in the world, that the people on all sides will not only embrace the NWO, they will beg for it. They do not have an allegiance to any flag, and they don’t care how many people of any country will die.
claman on Tue, 8th Sep 2015 9:27 am
GregT@,”Wow, that’s priceless claman. Kind of like the European mind, without a Russian or American leadership?”
Greg, I am glad you liked it:-). Maybe i should add that it was about 4:30 in the swedish morning. Way past my bedtime.
theedrich on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 2:31 am
Sorry to let you know, Onlook, but Plantagenet is right about the Mohammedan low-life culture. Yes, in the days when armies used bows and arrows, they were on top. They even took the Indian (Sanskrit) numbering system and transferred it to the crusading nations during the Crusades. But they did not even exploit that tool, which they were the first to learn from the Hindus. Instead, European schoolmen (of the Catholic Church) took it and ran with it, thereby engendering science (scientia). Meanwhile the Allah-lovers contented themselves with female genital mutilation, beheading their own daughters, massive slavery far beyond anything Westerners ever dreamed of, and many other practices which ISIL is simply continuing.
The overpopulating trash from MENA believes it has an obligation from Allah to exterminate every White man on the planet who will not submit to Submission —, which should warm the cockles of your heart, Onlook. Before he was murdered on Hillary’s orders, Libya’s Qaddafi predicted that Mohammedanism would take over Europe by immigration within half a century. It seems like he overestimated that timespan greatly. The European nations — and above all Germany — are all dominated by anti-White dictatorships which incarcerate any indigenous White who breathes a word about unassimilables from elsewhere, let alone Jews, invading and destroying his country. Europeans are all immobilized by never-ending horror propaganda about Nazis, the only “history” allowed there these days. Since America believes that “all men are created equal,” as well as in the myth that the “Fall” in the Garden of Eden was caused by Whites, we have made our Constitution into a suicide pact. Again, that will delight you and your anti-White friends.
I am sure you will really enjoy Georg Sörös’ “Open Society” once we evil Whites have been destroyed by your Allah-friendly heroes.
apneaman on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 3:07 am
theedrich go suck a big black cock you fucking cull.
apneaman on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 3:12 am
Maybe some girl you loved did – had that jungle fever or desert fever. Is that where all your hate comes from theedrich?
Davy on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 5:41 am
Thee, you have some interesting reads. You are dead wrong on the Muslims in their early history in regards to civilization and the Christians.
Go crack some more books. You are highly intelligent but you let your emotions enter the conversation.
No, I am not smart enough just smart enough to know how much I don’t know.
theedrich on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 6:22 pm
I regret to disappoint you, Davy, but I have read quite a few books on Mohammed and his cult of murder. The entire history of Submission is one of oppression, of horror and gore leading to a lifestyle characteristic of the lower primates. And yes, I know all about the romanticized tales of Scheherzade, of that wonderful Moslem-enslaved Spain and other delights. None of it refutes the fact that that ideology is parasitic in the extreme, second only to Communism in its bloodthirst. The inability of our own propaganda elites to acknowledge the reality of such hellish idiocies is due to what philosopher Sheldon Wolin calls Inverted Totalitarianism, a bribe-ocratic system that uses diversion and distraction to maintain a façade of democracy and capitalism. American academics in the liberal arts are little more than craven tools of this system, and rush to defend all of the animals now invading us from Allahland, lest said academics lose their taxpayer-funded professorships. The religion of “Submission” is utterly indefensible as a civilizational ideology, regardless of what the current POTUS says or how much money the Demonic party — or the Repubs, for that matter — accepts from the oily Arabs.
As for Ap, he has nothing to offer except “ad hominem” arguments. Although such attacks work in the mind of the unschooled masses, they are simply part of the other fallacies of relevance so frequently used by the controlled media in their mendacious propaganda.
In the end, the fact is that White civilization is in the grip of its own genosuicide, which is clear for anyone to see. Provided, that is, that the observer is not delusional in the way our elites are.
Davy on Wed, 9th Sep 2015 8:20 pm
Thee, I don’t want to debate you on the Muslim good and bad in history or current events. My interests are elsewhere. My point was only that there were periods where Muslim culture flourished and around the same time Christians were in their darker age. There was allot of cross cultural mixing of Christian, Muslims, and the Jewish theology and philosophy especially with the holy land, Spain, and Egypt. I won’t go any further in their defense because Muslims are not high on my list so I am in no mood to protect their dignity from your wrath.
theedrich on Thu, 10th Sep 2015 4:03 am
The Mohammedans are dross, and you know it, Davy. Whatever their booty was after the fall of the Roman Empire, they squandered it all on arrogance and murder. Yes, there were a few philosophers like Avicenna and Averroes who built on the Greeks, but a civilization is much more than a few major figures. Their meager “contributions” dwindled to nothing after the thirteenth century. Today the ONLY reason they are important is because they are sitting on oil, which was discovered and developed for them by the White man. Even the non-Arab Iranians, a splinter group of Submission, despise the Arabs, who constitute the core of that ideological idiocy, as subhumans. Whatever “mixing” you may think was of value, the Allah whackos were and are unable to create any culture of true significance. And pointing out the historical flaws and wars of Whites (the tu quoque fallacy) is irrevelant to this point.