[FatherOfTwo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')Peak Oilers", by and large seem to be a group of depressed, n'er do wells whom, for whatever reason have not succeeded (financially, personally, spiritually whatever) and feel they need a clean slate to make their mark. Total socio ecomic breakdown gives them that clean slate- or level playing field that they believe has been denied them...

[Rhinestones]

Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:25 pm
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hoplite', '"')The truth hurts"
--my father
"Peak Oilers", by and large seem to be a group of depressed, n'er do wells whom, for whatever reason have not succeeded (financially, personally, spiritually whatever) and feel they need a clean slate to make their mark. Total socio ecomic breakdown gives them that clean slate- or level playing field that they believe has been denied them...

[Rhinestones]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('turkishguy', ' ')Right now I just follow the news and make no assumptions on what will happen.

[Ludi]

Um, uh, if you want to live a different way, um, can't you do it without waiting for Peak Oil? I'm not waiting.....

[Rhinestones]

What makes you think I'm waiting Ludi? Just today the SOLD sign went up on my beautiful coastal home. In a month I'll be planting more fruit trees on the most gorgeous small farm high in the Ozarks. The county is 63% public land, with a long tradition of sustainable living. As it is I only leave home for work about 30 days a year, carry zero debt, and answer to no person but my gorgeous wife and son. I'm not looking for a transformation of civilization because I'm unhappy but because I feel the potential that exists outside of this screwed up reality so powerfully.

[Ludi]

Good for you!

[Wildwell]

The key is to hold moderate views, not announce we’re all going to starve, sell our daughters and start fighting with spears instead of stealth fighers.

They say: So oil is going to run out. Yeah right, we’ve heard this oil thing before.

You say: It’s never going to run out, just get more expensive after peak production, assuming demand stays the same or rises. Peak production is probably in the next 10 years. Some say now, others say 25 years time.

They say: So this is an end of the world scenario? We’ve heard this all before, you’re just a doomer.

You say. No it’s a transistion phase, it may mean lifestyle changes or different ways of doing things – but it depends on people’s attitudes and technology.

They say: What about hydrogen?

You say: The problem is there are no hydrogen reserves on earth, we have to make the stuff, which requires other inputs of energy and a resultant energy loss. Currnetly it is unlikely that hydrogen is a scable, cheap technology or there are the energy inputs available.

Then you let them go off and do their homework and come to their own conclusions.

Don’t do a Sir Richard Mottram, the Permanent Secretary at the Department of Transport, who declared: 'We're all fucked. I'm fucked. You're fucked. The whole department's fucked. It's the biggest cock-up ever and we're all completely fucked.'’

Because people will just think you’re a doomer and won’t listen or off your rocker. Anyway, that’s the way I’ve been doing it and it seems to have worked so far.

Oh and some groups/people are more interested than others: Farmers, transport, environmentalists in particular are more interested.

Try and keep it non-political as well.

[turkishguy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', 'T')ry and keep it non-political as well.

[Wildwell]

I don’t think the political debate helps very much, even though the subject can be politicised. There’s a lot wrong with left and right politics and the world will always drift between the two. And PO will require the right and left to work together.

There are some people on this forum interested in the downfall of the west, and especially America. Others are looking forward to the downfall of capitalism. Some like the idea of wars or fending for themselves. Then there are the hardcore environmentalists, the anti-immigration brigade, nuclear interests and so on a so forth. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion and some are looking forward to seizing power, even though long lasting change always ultimately comes from the bottom even if the top do give their orders.

Most of these wants fore fill a personal loss or with to have a fairer piece of pie, that’s understandable.

The political side is the least interesting to me, being more interested in getting out of the mess is the main topic and getting people to think outside the box.

[FatherOfTwo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wildwell', ' ')being more interested in getting out of the mess is the main topic and getting people to think outside the box.

[vegasmade]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')on’t do a Sir Richard Mottram, the Permanent Secretary at the Department of Transport, who declared: 'We're all fucked. I'm fucked. You're fucked. The whole department's fucked. It's the biggest cock-up ever and we're all completely fucked.'’

[Wildwell]

The worst part of the story is the guy was proved right!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... huf230.xml

[ubercrap]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hoplite', '"')The truth hurts"
--my father



"Peak Oilers", by and large seem to be a group of depressed, n'er do wells whom, for whatever reason have not succeeded (financially, personally, spiritually whatever) and feel they need a clean slate to make their mark. Total socio ecomic breakdown gives them that clean slate- or level playing field that they believe has been denied them...

[Ronin]

You can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills first

[ki11ercane]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hoplite', '"')The truth hurts"
--my father



"Peak Oilers", by and large seem to be a group of depressed, n'er do wells whom, for whatever reason have not succeeded (financially, personally, spiritually whatever) and feel they need a clean slate to make their mark. Total socio ecomic breakdown gives them that clean slate- or level playing field that they believe has been denied them...

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Hw do you respond to people who say you "want it to happen" just because you believe PO is a fact?

Personally, it makes me want to cry....

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Hw do you respond to people who say you "want it to happen" just because you believe PO is a fact?

Personally, it makes me want to cry....

[Sixstrings]

I think a lot of people have an unresolved existential angst regarding modern life. This curious, trapped sort of depression is not new -- it was an issue during Victorian times as well.

For an interesting read, google "How to live your life in 24 hours." You should be able to track down an e-text of a self-help book written in either the late 1800s or early 1900s (can't remember).

The book deals with the problem of finding contentment in the modern world. The author describes a world where for the first time, people confront deep sadness in the everyday routine of hopping a train and pushing papers around at a desk all day. He calls this new class of men the "salarymen." Today, the terms du jour are "wage slave" and "cube farms."

He points out how much unhappier they tend to be than the old-fashioned, real craftsmen -- that is, men who build things from start to finish and have a sense of control over and pride in their work. The author's advice to combating the trapped feeling of living a regimented, by the clock modern existence lies within the book's title.

He suggests that no matter how busy the modern person is, they can find a little time on a regular basis for reading, intellectual stimulation, or some kind of craftsmen-like hobby.

The book is a fascinating read, if only for the realization that the "modern" malaise has been with us for quite some time. In today's society, unlike the times the author wrote in, we have added a large layer of seeking happiness-through-consumerism into this mix. And when we've bought our last trinket, and it fails to please -- well, we've got a slew of psychotropic drugs to run through, don't we?

Now, to bring this back to the issue of those who seem to wish "Mad Max" to come true. I think a lot of these people are going through this modern, existential angst themselves. In the past, a lot of these men would have found new adventure and challenge by heading forever West. As Westerners, the discontent among us have been heading West for 400 odd years now.

Well the West has now been won, and if the adventurous man heads West he'll just find the same old Walmarts, the same old McDonalds, the same old disconnected robotic work, the same old subdivisions with names that could do double duty with old age homes: "Whispering Pines," "Woodhaven," etc. etc. etc... we name our communities with words which mean absolutely nothing to us at all, and we live in homes which are architecturally uninspiring.

The upshot to all this is a fact that we all know -- if adventure is what one wants, it is still out there to be found. The community one lives in does not need to collapse for you to find challenge and meaning in your life -- but, yes, you may just have to strike out and take the risk of finding that change for yourself.

And that's the rub. By the time this existential angst overwhelms a man, he is very likely in his middle age, where a growing sense of caution (not to mention familial responsibilities) tends to preclude the risk-taking that real change requires.

The man who feels too trapped yet understandably too cautious to seek change -- it is this sort of man who subconsciously wishes for change to come to him, and thereby force his hand.

[mystiek]

hoplite hasn't been hanging out on the Christian perspective thread on Peak Oil. I don't want bad things to happen to anyone. I do believe that alot of the mainstays of this web site are not a bunch of "depressed" doomer failures of society, but people who are willing not to live in our society's fake little bubbles, but are trying to deal with the reality of the world around us. Most of you guys are a hoot and I enjoy reading and learning here!

[mark000]

First, someone discovers Peak Oil, and makes the incredibly unlikely step of realizing what a massive event it will be.
They then think 'wow everyone needs to know about this', so society can make changes now to prevent it being a monumental disaster.
Then over the course of 2 -3 years they become disillusioned with society's lack of response, or ability to even understand the issue.
At this point, the person often gets bitter at society, and concludes that they f**king deserve the worst case scenario, as it looks more and more likely.
And then they start to look forward to it, and wanting it to happen.
So the 'wanting it to happen' is a state of mind that evolves as a person becomes aware of the truth: the society they live in sucks ass. Sure life is (excessively) comfortable, but thats all its got going for it.
Face it, the countries us westerners live in are totally unsustainable in their current form. If you want to ENJOY peak oil, start to see it as a natural process, and something totally and utterly deserved. Learn to laugh at the suffering of fools, people who don't insist on having their wisest people as their leaders, instead choosing clueless clowns, like themselves.