[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'F')ractional reserve banking is a myth. The use of forwardised value (fractional reserves) merely reflects the forwardising of gross labour surplus (for example outsourced value (forget nationalist sentiment within capitalists) as valued by global capital which includes American capital. Without the social relations that arise in a globalised system like capital, the use of labour value forwardising (fractional reserves) would be an absurdity. Hence the resilience of systems which engage in easing (the application of the socialised component of labour surplus) to the market place in the midst of this practice which seems to defy the logic of thrift...this can go on for as long as accumulation is robust.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'A')mericandream, I'm not sure the infinite growth paradigm is a direct result of mercantile or capitalist tradition. I think it's more to do with the debt-and-growth economic requirements of fractional reserve banking.

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Beery1', '
')I just wish Peak Oil News and Message Boards could be about peak oil again.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'F')ractional reserve banking is a myth. The use of forwardised value (fractional reserves) merely reflects the forwardising of gross labour surplus (for example outsourced value (forget nationalist sentiment within capitalists) as valued by global capital which includes American capital. Without the social relations that arise in a globalised system like capital, the use of labour value forwardising (fractional reserves) would be an absurdity. Hence the resilience of systems which engage in easing (the application of the socialised component of labour surplus) to the market place in the midst of this practice which seems to defy the logic of thrift...this can go on for as long as accumulation is robust.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'A')mericandream, I'm not sure the infinite growth paradigm is a direct result of mercantile or capitalist tradition. I think it's more to do with the debt-and-growth economic requirements of fractional reserve banking.

[AirlinePilot]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'H')ow this is relevant to peak oil? Oil (energy) provides the necessary momentum by which labour is harnessed by capital for surplus and exchange. As that energy source gets more expensive, the capitalists act of accumulation reaches its point of maximum return and peaks. Globalisation breaks down and wars ensue.

[SeaGypsy]

Dave- we are on the same page- AD virtually repeates the same monologue every time he posts- which aside from being a tad boring to those of us who have been here a while- is a breach of the CoC and quite disrespectful to those starting threads ike this one- he doesn't at all even touch the actual question of the OP.

Funny- you mention Reverseengineer- the unnamed poster and I had him in our top few missed ex-posters we mentioned also- RE- RE where art thou RE?

[John_A]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')ave- we are on the same page- AD virtually repeates the same monologue every time he posts- which aside from being a tad boring to those of us who have been here a while- is a breach of the CoC and quite disrespectful to those starting threads ike this one- he doesn't at all even touch the actual question of the OP.

Funny- you mention Reverseengineer- the unnamed poster and I had him in our top few missed ex-posters we mentioned also- RE- RE where art thou RE?

[americandream]

Without a doubt. We will be witness to massive outsourcing of just about every industry, casual labour will become the norm in the West and deflation of luxury goods (made in low wage zones) will hit never before seen levels. Food, energy and other essentials will offset the gains in luxury deflation with the onset of widespread misery. To some extent, populists will initially be limited in what they can offer as the market will have become fully globalised and inter-connected. When market globalisation does unwind, we will be faced with either the slippery slope to barbarism or material dialecticism and a new social order. With climate change lagging, I am not holding my breath.

Infinite growth was a gamble. Peak oil.com stands witness to this tragedy and is possibly something of a refuge for those of us punch drunk with the fiasco unfolding before our eyes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AirlinePilot', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'H')ow this is relevant to peak oil? Oil (energy) provides the necessary momentum by which labour is harnessed by capital for surplus and exchange. As that energy source gets more expensive, the capitalists act of accumulation reaches its point of maximum return and peaks. Globalisation breaks down and wars ensue.

[americandream]

Theres not much else to say SG. The crux of the issue is the system. Peak oil is one symptom.

Anyways, I will bow out and leave you to it as just about all that I can say has been said.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')ave- we are on the same page- AD virtually repeates the same monologue every time he posts- which aside from being a tad boring to those of us who have been here a while- is a breach of the CoC and quite disrespectful to those starting threads ike this one- he doesn't at all even touch the actual question of the OP.

Funny- you mention Reverseengineer- the unnamed poster and I had him in our top few missed ex-posters we mentioned also- RE- RE where art thou RE?

[Northwest Resident]

I am a relative newbie at Peak Oil, in fact I just registered so I could post a comment here. I discovered this site a few months ago. Since then, it has become my favorite site in terms of finding articles and opinions that focus on the central issue of our time -- the end of cheap oil. There are plenty of articles that are NOT directly about peak oil, but since almost everything we touch and experience these days is due to the world that was created WITH oil, it only follows that so many seeminly off-topic articles are in fact directly related to peak oil, for those who can make the connection. I enjoy the comments and the points of view here, and the occassional expert comments by real-life oil industry experts. I enjoy the articles reposted from motleyfool-dot-com and others in that class, because we all need to keep abreast of the totally dishonest propaganda that is being pumped out to the lemming masses. Even the supposedly repetitive articles has their own unique slant, or expose a new fact or two. I appreciate what the owners/authors of this site are doing, and consider it a great service. Please keep doing what you are doing. Only about six months ago I was TOTALLY UNAWARE of the rapidly approaching end-of-BAU -- other than that I thought it would be far, far in the future. When I suddenly underwent a period of panicked realization, I desparately sought out sites that could me the info that I needed, that could tell the TRUTH. I found sites like "Our Finite World" and others, including this one. Peak Oil remains my favorite, the one I visit frequently every day. Thanks.

[ROCKMAN]

NR – “When I suddenly underwent a period of panicked realization”. Not an uncommon reaction. But if you hang around here long enough it will all eventually come into a meaningful perspective. Then you will daydream, like the rest of us old timers, of that sweet release death will eventually bring us.

So welcome! And don't be shy...we don't bite. Well...some actually do but we have a good supply of digital antibiotics on hand.

[John_A]

NR...sorry buddy, but cheap oil ended back in the early 70's, and TRUTH!!? Well...that can be a little tricky.

For historical knowledge...the TRUTH....only 10 short years ago..

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/w ... _aspo.html

"IFP Chairman Appert's optimism was belied by experts like Laherrère, whose brutally honest graphs and plots not only mirror the truth of declining discovery and production but also establish scientifically that there are no more major significant reserves to be found."

A decade ago, it was even all scientific and stuff. Chock full of phoney baloney as well...but that is where the truth often leads.

[SeaGypsy]

Welcome NWR
(Don't get me wrong- take the above exchange as example of the nit picking between long term posters I refer to in the OP- though it is in breach of the CoC- I very often agree with much of AD's posts- just wish he would be less lazy and start his own threads instead of plastering all over ones which are getting lots of reads- like this one is )

[vision-master]

Gas is under $3 gal now.

[SeaGypsy]

Which is relevant how VM?

We here all know there is a paradox at play here. MSM promotion of 'Saudi America'- a growth in US production utterly dependent on high prices- ($70+ BBL is the generally accepted COST of the new production- break even point- 'profit or die' means the price must remain above this point fairly consistently and substantially)- yet MSM hyped confidence in spin is resulting in dropping prices globally.

The more prices drop- the closer we get to US production collapse and we are starting to see the end of the plateau. Peak oil is a story which takes a lifetime to tell- we are nearing the middle- the 'Character development' phase. The real drama has barely begun.

[sparky]

.
@ Airline pilot ..." the FAILURE of fiat based money systems whose only real support is the promise of growth."

Maybe not totally true , but close enough not to make a difference.

Certainly we are in a growth society , not much of a clue about steady state economics
so it's going to be a lurch between random crisis .
I came to this site a fair while ago , the price was 30 $/B ,
the Oil production was rising fast , now it's 100$/b and we are on a plateau
don't tell me , I can guess what come next

[ROCKMAN]

NR - To explain John's point about "cheap" oil. Adjusted for inflation oil prices also boomed in the late 70's to comparable levels we seen lately. Which led to the global recession which destroyed demand and lead to $10 oil. And that lead to a crash in drilling activity. And that lead little replacement of produced reserves. And as the global economy improved consumption increased. And eventually increased consumption leads to upward pressure on oil prices. And increased demand combined with increased consumption (especially in China and India) lead to the current boom of the oil shale plays. What has surprised me is how relatively well the global economy has handled the higher oil prices. The last big question: for how long? Will another recession drive down consumption and prices and kill the shale plays? Or is there another economic model going to take control?

Stayed tuned...something is going o happen. Not sure exactly what but it's definitely going to happen. LOL.

[Ibon]

Many well spoken sentiments here that I share. Navel gazing while dealing with the ennui of the stagnant plateau. Anticipating but not knowing of the black swans and potential catalysts that will punctuate this plateau as Pstarr commented. For myself I am feeling a growing impatience that we are limited to the medium of this internet forum for shared awareness of PO because in our organic communities it is lacking . Although many of us have made choices in our livelihoods that reflect the knowledge of peak oil many of us do this largely in isolation within the communities we live in. Which makes this site important but it limits us to the cerebral recycling of words words words detached from the bodies and souls speaking them. Exchanging knowledge is important but words are words and you can't eat them, you can't dance with them, can't sit around the fire with the physical bodies and spirits speaking these words. Who is Sea Gypsy? Airline Pilot, Pops, Pstarr, Visionmaster, Tanada, Plantagent, American Dream, all the rest of you?

If we were sharing words around a fire at night after collectively having done something then the words carry a meaning beyond the cerebral, a binding in the organic world.

Let me mention that from 2003-2007 I participated in many peak oil conferences around North America. Even though I was in the room and could see Richard Heinberg, Nate Hagens, Matt Simmons or sit around the table with Oil Drum essayists, and had all these fellow peak oilers in the audience, it didn't satisfy really this organic integration. These conferences are like this site, people from far away forming a temporary community in a conference but afterward returning to their lives where this knowledge is hardly integrated. Better save the fossil fuels and not even have these events.

I am growing impatient with digital words that do no work in the physical world. I am becoming cynical of this medium. There is something fractured from the organic that increasingly irritates me.

Don't get me wrong. It is wonderful that this medium can defy these physical distances. And Youtube videos on skinning rabbits has made access to knowledge a great equalizer. The contradictions are irritating though.

One further note, PO is much more than just depletion of fossil fuel energy. Again, Pstarr mentions he expects black swans and punctuated equilibrium. Me too. And it may not be peak oil per se that sparks a change. But PO does symbolize the weakness we inherently feel on the outer edge of exponential growth and overshoot. This site is at its best when dealing with this fragility our species finds itself in more than specifically PO and fossil fuel depletion. I couldn't disagree more with John A that we should limit the topic to just Peak Oil. Because frankly I never cared if peak oil is proven wrong or not. That is not why we are here or what this site is about.

It may be the tit we all are sucking on but it may not be itself the catalyst of change.

I hear American Dream's lament and frustration about this seemingly unstoppable collective inertia towards grinding down down down the very last of our resources following an economic system that has poisoned our souls, our planet, our societies. Like Sea Gypsy I do wish American Dream would get off his autistic like dogma rants and reveal more of his humanity. Which is ironic since he insists that capitalism is dehumanizing. He reads like an anti capitalist software virus. American Dream, you need to integrate the encyclopedic knowledge you have of capitalism's short comings into the broader world. You speak truth of an important component that needs to be heard but the diamond of truth has many prisms and your message fails to educate or reach out when your hitched solely to one prism.

You know what we all are? We are all dismayed recluses to the status quo and that is why we come here together…..

Enough rambling

[Northwest Resident]

Rockman and others: Thanks for your greetings. Since that panicked moment not long ago when I realized "we are going down", I have become a voracious reader on all things related to peak oil, the debt-driven economy and the prospects of BAU continuing for much longer (zero percent). Based on what I've read, the economy has not been able to handle the $100-range per barrel oil prices at all. Like Rockman points out, that high price has enabled us to frack our planet, but to what end? Very little energy gain, but mountains and rivers of deadly pollution, from what I see. I have posted a number of times on articles on this site under a "guest account" status in the last few months, expressing my opinion that the powers that be are simply buying time by pumping all trillions of funny money into the economy. Basically, the economy is already dead, but it has been "zombie-fied" by an infusion of unholy juice with the intent to keep it shuffling and lurching forward step-by-step, day by day, toward its final end which we all know can't be far off. I believe that the whole reason behind fracking is to keep the oil workers and refinery workers employed, and to create a basis upon which to create happy "we've got lots of oil to spare" stories, all with the intent of creating and maintaining the illusion that BAU is safe and sound far into the future. That the powers that be would put so much effort into maintaining that illusion is, in my opinion, a sign of just how bad the reality really is. Am I wrong?

[ralfy]

Peak oil is part of three predicaments: a resource crunch, environmental damage coupled with global warming, and economic crises caused by debt. Other factors such as arms production, the use of false flags, the spread of disease due to increased vectors, etc., make matters worse.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'W')hat has surprised me is how relatively well the global economy has handled the higher oil prices. The last big question: for how long? Will another recession drive down consumption and prices and kill the shale plays? Or is there another economic model going to take control?

Stayed tuned...something is going o happen. Not sure exactly what but it's definitely going to happen. LOL.