[Ludi]

'Closed-Loop Ethanol Plant to Start Production
Mead, Nebraska [RenewableEnergyAccess.com]
The first closed-loop system for distilling commercial quantities of ethanol using methane gas recaptured from cow manure is set to begin production next month in Mead, Nebraska. The plant's technology will virtually eliminate the need for fossil fuels in the production of ethanol.

"It may surprise you to learn that the most promising solution to our nation's energy crisis begins in the bowels of a waste trough, under the slotted concrete floor of a giant pen that holds 28,000 ... beef cattle."

-- Vinod Khosla, Sun Microsystems, co-founder
The closed-loop system -- derived from an exclusive patent co-owned by an affiliate of E3 BioFuels -- combines a 25-million-gallon ethanol refinery, beef cattle feedlot and anaerobic digesters to maximize energy efficiencies unavailable to each component on a stand-alone basis.

This system eliminates the potential for manure to pollute watersheds, and it enables the wet distiller's grain from ethanol production to be fed on-site to cattle without energy-intensive drying and transportation costs.

In the October edition of Wired Magazine, venture capitalist Vinod Khosla wrote, "It may surprise you to learn that the most promising solution to our nation's energy crisis begins in the bowels of a waste trough, under the slotted concrete floor of a giant pen that holds 28,000 ... beef cattle." '

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/re ... y?id=46414

[AgentR]

Whats the water consumption of this particular operation?

[Jack]

So our future energy source is a bunch of manure?


Somehow, that makes perfect sense.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')oor cows.

Not to mention all the other problems with this.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')oor cows.

[coyote]

Haven't they seen Beyond Thunderdome? Supposed to be using pigs...

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')oor cows.

Not to mention all the other problems with this.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')oor cows.

Not to mention all the other problems with this.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Loki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'P')oor cows.

Not to mention all the other problems with this.

[Heineken]

Well, I don't eat ANY beef or pork and I raise my own eggs from extremely happy hens, so I'm doing my bit, Tanada. How about you?

[Loki]

If you're such an expert Tanada why did you make a blanket statement about cattle just being "meat on the hoof," ignoring Shannymara's obvious disgust with the massive feedlot operation mentioned in the story?

And I do eat at least 99% vegetarian--I've had exactly one steak in the last ten years, and that was bought directly from a local farmer who pasture raises his cattle. Had three chickens in that time period, too, and again, directly from a local farm that pasture raises their chickens. My money is where my mouth is. How about yours?

"Moaning and groaning" about factory farming is like anything else. Most people ignore the issue, but a tiny minority will listen and change their buying habits. Frankly I don't care if you agree with that or not. You are unnecessarily insulting and seem to be intentionally combative, so I won't waste anymore time with you.

[codesuidae]

Very encouraging to see a large factory integrating different parts of the system. The problem I see is that the feed production for the 28,000 cattle probably depends heavily on grain produced from fields that are fertillized and worked with fossil fuel products (natural gas and diesel).

I am curious as to what the net output would be if the fields used to grow the grain were worked with alcohol fuel and if the minerals required for fertilization were mined/extracted with that fuel. Would there be any fuel left for my car, or would the only end product be a heck of a lot of beef.

I'd much rather see the cattle taken out of the system; regardless of the cruelty of eating them (discussion of which belongs in some other thread), they just aren't an efficent use of grain. They are useful for converting grass into something we can eat, but feeding them useful grain is wasteful.

[Heineken]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('codesuidae', '
')I'd much rather see the cattle taken out of the system; regardless of the cruelty of eating them (discussion of which belongs in some other thread), they just aren't an efficent use of grain. They are useful for converting grass into something we can eat, but feeding them useful grain is wasteful.

[Ludi]

You won't get a "heck of a lot of beef" anyway, because even ruminants need some energy in their feed in order to put on weight. Though ruminants can turn cellulose into carbohydrates, if most of the energy is removed from the corn in the form of alchohol, there won't be much left to fill out a steak. What you see here is a kind of perpetual motion scheme (or scam). They aren't mentioning the fossil fuels used to grow and harvest the corn and to fertilize it. It's not a closed loop, obviously.

[codesuidae]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'Y')ou won't get a "heck of a lot of beef" anyway, because even ruminants need some energy in their feed in order to put on weight.

[cube]

take the red pill to see the truth!

Factory Farming

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('codesuidae', '
')I'd much rather see the cattle taken out of the system; regardless of the cruelty of eating them (discussion of which belongs in some other thread), they just aren't an efficent use of grain. They are useful for converting grass into something we can eat, but feeding them useful grain is wasteful.

[codesuidae]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('codesuidae', '
')I'd much rather see the cattle taken out of the system; regardless of the cruelty of eating them (discussion of which belongs in some other thread), they just aren't an efficent use of grain.

[BlisteredWhippet]

For a corollary, the discussion on grain prices point out that the increase in consumption of grains is pushed by the rise of incomes and skyrocketing increase in consumption of meat. Meat remains a major force in the acceleration of land and water use, habitat destruction, and overpopulation worldwide.

It is an industry entering a phase in which increased energy costs will drive the price through the roof far beyond other commodities. Meat will become something governments and populations fight over.

[Loki]

Sorry that your thread got hijacked Ludi, though I do think the hijack topic was important. I think your argument about this being a perpetual motion scheme is pretty much right on. But to take a devil's advocate position, what a bovine biogas scheme like this can do is reduce waste, i.e., make use of a resource that is otherwise going to waste and/or polluting local water supplies. A large dairy co-op in my state (Tillamook) is experimenting with biogas. Doesn't look like they've been particularly successful, but it might slightly reduce the amount of manure entering fish-bearing streams and rivers. Here's an old USDA article describing it, a more recent PBS article, and the Port of Tillamook's page on the biogas generator. As dairy operations go, Tillamook isn't too bad. Mostly smaller family farmers that let their cows roam and they don't use BGH. The Tillamook Valley does stink to high heaven though. Maybe a biogas operation might improve the smell if nothing else.